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quote: Originally posted by queenstomper:
And a lot are not prepared to save money while they live with the folks either. Not all, but it's a must have society by and large.
My own first flat went up in value by 17k in the first year that I owned it. Nobody can save 17k a year that I know of. Saving up is actually a backward step in the current market - every month that you aren't tracking rises is a month where your savings dwindle - proportionately - still further. |
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My house earns more than I do!
___________________________
There are 10 types of people in this world, those that understand binary and those that don't.
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Yup, 17k was more than my annual take home pay at the time.
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quote: Originally posted by Sir John ffrench Saunders:
This is the problem for me, existing home owners are in a far better position than FTBs because they have profited from 10 years of rapidly rising prices.
I disagree! My boyfriend & I bought a flat about 5 years ago. It has gone up 80% in that time (mostly in the first 2 years). We're thinking of moving next year. My friend is buying as a FTB in the next few months & his budget is only 20k below ours! His deposit is about half the amount we have in savings & his salary is around the same as Mr H's. Us being homeowners looks like it didn't change anything. |
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quote: Originally posted by Hedgehog: quote: Originally posted by Sir John ffrench Saunders:
This is the problem for me, existing home owners are in a far better position than FTBs because they have profited from 10 years of rapidly rising prices.
I disagree! My boyfriend & I bought a flat about 5 years ago. It has gone up 80% in that time (mostly in the first 2 years). We're thinking of moving next year. My friend is buying as a FTB in the next few months & his budget is only 20k below ours! His deposit is about half the amount we have in savings & his salary is around the same as Mr H's. Us being homeowners looks like it didn't change anything.
But surely his Mortgage and therefore his re-payments will be a lot higher as you have more equity in your house? |
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quote: Originally posted by queenstomper:
Not all, but it's a must have society by and large.
Agreed. It's what irritates me half the people in programmes about FTBs - especially "Buy a House with a Stranger". If they didn't go out 3-4 times a week, buy Plasma screen TVs and set themselves sensible property targets it is acheivable. I'm staggered that people younger than me (i'm 29) think they deserve to be able to get a 2 bed flat in Clapham. That's something to aspire to - you can't just have it right now! Also what's with it with FTB couples on TV looking for 2-3 bedroom flats and being disappointed they can't affor them? You sleep together for Christ's sake - you only need one bloody bedroom! |
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The quotes he's been given seem to only be £100 a month more than ours will be. I don't understand it!
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quote: Originally posted by Hedgehog:
The quotes he's been given seem to only be £100 a month more than ours will be. I don't understand it!
Over the same amount of years? |
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quote: quote:
Originally posted by Sir John ffrench Saunders:
This is the problem for me, existing home owners are in a far better position than FTBs because they have profited from 10 years of rapidly rising prices.
I disagree! My boyfriend & I bought a flat about 5 years ago. It has gone up 80% in that time (mostly in the first 2 years). We're thinking of moving next year. My friend is buying as a FTB in the next few months & his budget is only 20k below ours! His deposit is about half the amount we have in savings & his salary is around the same as Mr H's. Us being homeowners looks like it didn't change anything.
Surely there are some other factors to complicate matters. If your place has gone up so much in value how can you not be in a better position than him? Unless your place only cost £20k or something. A couple of people have mentioned how it was when their grandparents bought their first house. I wonder if people with the same jobs today (probably on only the man's salary) could buy a house at all? A studio flat perhaps. |
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quote: Originally posted by Rob K:
Well it's a 2 bedroom semi with decent size bedrooms and an 18'2 x 11'0 lounge plus reasonable size front, back and side gardens, so I'd be tempted to say a family could live here, yes. I'm in Huddersfield in case you're wondering.
R
My girlfriend lives in Huddersfield (Shelley actually). I've looked at the housing market and its rocketed in the last few years. |
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He keeps asking us for advice so I know his situation fairly well. Same number of years, interest rate etc. I'm not complaining, because we can afford what we want, it's just confusing. The banks seem prepared to lend him about 5 times his salary at a low rate.
I thought a lot of people in our grandparent's era didn't buy homes till later in life? Haven't thought about it before but it's interesting. Proportionally the cost of living's a lot higher these days for everything.
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quote: Originally posted by ovalyellow:
Also what's with it with FTB couples on TV looking for 2-3 bedroom flats and being disappointed they can't affor them? You sleep together for Christ's sake - you only need one bloody bedroom!
Maybe they want to plan for a family or occasionally have their elderly parents stay over? |
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quote: Originally posted by Hedgehog:
He keeps asking us for advice so I know his situation fairly well. Same number of years, interest rate etc. I'm not complaining, because we can afford what we want, it's just confusing. The banks seem prepared to lend him about 5 times his salary at a low rate.
Thats the problem! If rates go up (they are historically low) and an Eastern European worker takes his job, or its outsourced (depending on his job type), he could be in trouble. |
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quote: Originally posted by ovalyellow:
You sleep together for Christ's sake - you only need one bloody bedroom!
My husband sounds like a jackhammer digging up the road. Ignoring finances, if I could buy the house next door, just so as not to put up with his snoring, I would - in fact he would be moved in so fast his feet would be on fire. Obviously we'd have to come to an arrangement re: conjugal visits but his birthday and Xmas are six months apart! |
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quote: Originally posted by ShoppingGirl: quote: Originally posted by queenstomper:
And a lot are not prepared to save money while they live with the folks either. Not all, but it's a must have society by and large.
My own first flat went up in value by 17k in the first year that I owned it. Nobody can save 17k a year that I know of. Saving up is actually a backward step in the current market - every month that you aren't tracking rises is a month where your savings dwindle - proportionately - still further.
Saving up can never be a bad thing if you can do it.
*It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. -- Pierre De Beaumarchais
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Saving up is always worthwhile, of course. But saving up won't get you any closer to your FTB dream if you live in most parts of this country. You'd be better off taking on the scary debt right now, rather than letting values whoosh right past you with every passing month.
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Yes I know what you mean. If you want to buy a house, do it now. There's always been some reason not to buy at the 'present' time since before I bought (in my case the distinct possibility of finding yourself in negative equity - never happened though). Just that if you are with your folks, rather than renting you can do a bit of bargaining with them. I pay you peanuts and save the money, that way I'll be moving out sooner rather than later. I know people whose parents saved all their 'board' money and gave it all back to them when they moved out! Mine never did that!
*It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. -- Pierre De Beaumarchais
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My dad refused to take board money on the basis that I would move out sooner. However every time a bill came I would have to sit through -
So you rang Mandy up for 30 minutes on the 21st. Ah and I see that was a Saturday. So you two would have been going out that night. So you had to spend 30 minutes on the phone for what reason? You would have had nothing to talk about when you were out. (usually for a good fifteen, twenty minutes sometimes more)
Ditto gas, electric, council tax. Love him though!
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quote: Originally posted by Karen1:
My dad refused to take board money on the basis that I would move out sooner. However every time a bill came I would have to sit through -
So you rang Mandy up for 30 minutes on the 21st. Ah and I see that was a Saturday. So you two would have been going out that night. So you had to spend 30 minutes on the phone for what reason? You would have had nothing to talk about when you were out. (usually for a good fifteen, twenty minutes sometimes more)
Ditto gas, electric, council tax. Love him though!
My mum once waved the phone bill in my face (I was 17, still at school, but had part time job) and gave the usual rant a la your dad. I said, ok, I'll give you some money then. My mum got even madder and yelled I don't want your money!! They're off their heads. Luckily, in these days of broadband and MSN, todays teens no doubt get spared much of the 'get off the bloody phone' stuff. |
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They don't know they are born. I was allowed 1 phone call per evening for 10 minutes. If the bill came in for the quarter and it was more than £45 it was blamed on me! But, lol, I am now so tight with my phone that my phone bill is regularly less than £1 for call charges and £15 per month on my mobile.
*It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. -- Pierre De Beaumarchais
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quote: Originally posted by Sir John ffrench Saunders:
But property has been rising at a much higher rate than inflation. You were lucky that you saved for 10 years until 1996. If you had saved for 10 years from 1996 you would be in a much worse position now than when you started. And this is the position a lot of FTBs are in - they have not got enough money for a deposit now and the longer they save for, the worse postion they are in.
This is the problem for me, existing home owners are in a far better position than FTBs because they have profited from 10 years of rapidly rising prices. It's all right saying "good luck to them" and "why shouldn't they" but that's just a matter of the Government's approach to fiscal matters. Taxation could be changed to help FTBs and I think it should be. As I said before it's like the person that gets in first just taking and taking without giving any chance to those behind.
I agree that the situation is difficult for FTBs, but my point was that if, and only if, the market stagnates or enters a period of decline, it is definately possible to take as big bite out of the cost of a property with a little dilligence and discipline. My message was intended to be one of optimism. I also agree that if house prices continue to escalate, such as we are currently seeing in parts of London, it would be pointless to save, as you would be swimming against the tide, unless you think a significant downturn is imminent. Overall, few benefit from rising prices. For me to upgrade to the next size of property would cost another £200,000! |
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I'm with queenstomper on this. I grew up in a town that is now sought after and locals find it hard to buy and outsiders can buy in.
It is hard not to think in terms that those locals could have made the same choices as those outsiders and moved to where there was better money and so on.
When I moved to London, my peers thought I was daft to go to somewhere where I could only get a one bed flat (in a rough area) whilst they bought three bed semis at home.
Nobody offered me any sympathy or suggested the housing market should be manipulated to help me. Yet, now those very same market forces work against the locals, suddenly it's a problem.
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quote: Originally posted by ovalyellow:
I'm staggered that people younger than me (i'm 29) think they deserve to be able to get a 2 bed flat in Clapham. That's something to aspire to - you can't just have it right now!
I also agree with this. The sense of entitlement of many FTB's astonishes me. They really see themselves as no different from their 40-something co-workers who have been earning for 20+ years. I've been in London for 15 years now and would perhaps expect to be able to afford a two bed in a good zone 1 or 2 area in about 10 years time - when I'm in my late 40's and have been on the ladder for 25 years  . |
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quote: Originally posted by reverand:
Thats the problem! If rates go up (they are historically low) and an Eastern European worker takes his job, or its outsourced (depending on his job type), he could be in trouble.
Will he be alright if a Western European worker takes his job, reverand? |
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