Originally posted by immy21: It's fear and greed that drives a market. Do you think that anyone would price their property for less than a neighbours!
Yes, I would and did as the neighbours had been on the market for a couple of months and not sold. I priced 5K lower and got an asking price offer within the week from a chain free buyer (and the EA did really well supplying me with several good quality buyers to view all of whom put in offers, apart from them nearly losing the buyer due to a mix up over names). The neighbour never did sell.
immy, You already said it's a slow market so can you just clarify exactly what you are seeing at the moment? Is this down to vendors overpricing and if so why don't you tell them the score? After all they are not going to benefit from missing to opportunity to sell in the spring are they???!!!
My Daughter's Agent received a phone call from a person enquiring after the price of Daughters House (obviously a local neighbour as it turned out). "How much is the house on the Market for?" Agent told Him. Scoffing reply was "There is one around the corner at £15000 cheaper how do you Bl**dy Agents value these things when you can't get details and prices right!" (were talking bog-standard Wimpy house here)
Agent (who knew about the proprty in question) cool, calm and polite to almost rude enquiry person. "Because Sir, Our property has a large garage, Full quality Double glazing, New fitted kitchen, New'ish White bathroom suite with shower and is immaculately presented unlike the property you are referring to which has none of the things mentioned and as an ex-rental property has been left in a very poor state of repair and decor, that is why there is a £15k price difference" Talk to any Agent and they will tell you that they receive quite a few semi abusive phone enquiries like this when then is absolutely no call for it. I wouldn't be an Estate Agent for anything!
Well seems to me that 3 years ago 100 people could have afforded the flat, now only 4. The market has just gone too crazy by far, so what do you estate agents suggest to solve the problem you've created??
well there's ignorance for you! When the market was going crazy agents were being forced by sellers to push prices up.Do you really think we would make it that difficult for ourselves. If you did n't give the price a seller wanted they would go to another agent now whose created the problem. It's fear and greed that drives a market. Do you think that anyone would price their property for less than a neighbours! The amount of times I have been told by a vendor that they have the largest house in the terrace despite them all being identical. Or the vendors who lie that a house has sold for x amount to try to persuade the agent to put a higher price on Don't shoot the messenger mate!
All businesses work to facts and figures though, if you have an unreasonable customer who wants his house on the market for, lets say, £200K, you know it will only sell for £160K. You have 2 options, you tell him we'll sell it for £160K or you can take your business down the road to x agents who will put it up for £200K, but they will never sell it.
You get the customers who will sell for reasonable prices, therefore, you get all the sales, hence the commission, hence the good facts to boast about such as "90% sold within 6 weeks". X agents down the road get all the dross, and everyone who is buying knows them for overpricing so doesn't go to them, but comes to you first!
"Profit is sanity, Turnover is vanity"
"Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time."
Well seems to me that 3 years ago 100 people could have afforded the flat, now only 4. The market has just gone too crazy by far, so what do you estate agents suggest to solve the problem you've created??
well there's ignorance for you! When the market was going crazy agents were being forced by sellers to push prices up.Do you really think we would make it that difficult for ourselves. If you did n't give the price a seller wanted they would go to another agent now whose created the problem. It's fear and greed that drives a market. Do you think that anyone would price their property for less than a neighbours! The amount of times I have been told by a vendor that they have the largest house in the terrace despite them all being identical. Or the vendors who lie that a house has sold for x amount to try to persuade the agent to put a higher price on Don't shoot the messenger mate!
All businesses work to facts and figures though, if you have an unreasonable customer who wants his house on the market for, lets say, £200K, you know it will only sell for £160K. You have 2 options, you tell him we'll sell it for £160K or you can take your business down the road to x agents who will put it up for £200K, but they will never sell it.
You get the customers who will sell for reasonable prices, therefore, you get all the sales, hence the commission, hence the good facts to boast about such as "90% sold within 6 weeks". X agents down the road get all the dross, and everyone who is buying knows them for overpricing so doesn't go to them, but comes to you first!
"Profit is sanity, Turnover is vanity"
The reasonable reality is that human beings are greedy whether they be property sellers or their agents. I have a house in good order on at £299,950. I have been asked by a near neighbour to put his house on at £315,000 but it's not as good as the one I already have! Another agent has foolishly overvalued it something they have a reputation for. Greed makes me take it on because of the fear of it selling with another agent when it could have been my sale! I don 't remember the seller being concerned in the slightest about the house we have! This is just why I take offence for your blaming ONLY estate agents for pushing up prices
"The greatest trick the Devil played, was convincing us all that he did not exist"
All businesses work to facts and figures though, if you have an unreasonable customer who wants his house on the market for, lets say, £200K, you know it will only sell for £160K. You have 2 options, you tell him we'll sell it for £160K or you can take your business down the road to x agents who will put it up for £200K, but they will never sell it.
You get the customers who will sell for reasonable prices, therefore, you get all the sales, hence the commission, hence the good facts to boast about such as "90% sold within 6 weeks". X agents down the road get all the dross, and everyone who is buying knows them for overpricing so doesn't go to them, but comes to you first!
"Profit is sanity, Turnover is vanity"
I completely agree with you. We have an independent EA, let's call him Derek (on account of that's his name ) who does just that. He valued a house in our road a couple of years ago, as did another agent notorious for overpricing. Owner wants to go with Derek because he has a reputation for outstanding integrity and efficiency, but she wants him to put it on at the other EA's higher valuation. Derek refuses because knows it wouldn't sell, customer would be disappointed, and his reputation would suffer. He would rather lose the sale. Owner puts it on with other EA, house sits there failing to sell (in a vibrant market) and when the contract expires a few weeks later, owner crawls back to Derek who sells it in a fortnight at his lower, realistic valuation. Derek maintains his reputation and gets the sale too
Hmm. when we put our hosue on the market, I had the agent in the village come round, These are norotious for under-pricing houses and selling them to their mates. However, I knew the price the house next door had gone for, three months previously. He not only made many derogatory remarks about our house- which put me off as I wnated guided buyings and I thought if he's like this with me what's he going to be like with the viewers? - he then offered us 10k less. When I queried this, he said 'I can guarantee that in six months you'll come crawling back to me'. I can gurantee that if I NEVER sell my house, I would NEVER deal with an agent like that!
It's a harsh world, but I don't think it's the EA's putting the price up, supply and demand dictates what a house will sell for. Like what happened with Derek 'supply and demand' made sure the house didn't sell for the over-rated price, but if the house had sold for the higher price, then there would have been people out there willing to pay the higher price because there was nothing else going, ergo, supply and demand just put the price up.
IMHO anyway
And good for Derek, like I said in previous thread, there are good and bad in all professions.
"Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time."
I don't know if your post was kind of in reply to mine decca - we are in London rather than a village, so it is a very different situation. Just wanted to make it clear that Derek has the best reputation because he gets the prices bang-on, not because he underprices to sell to his mates! He actually sold my first flat for me and dealt brilliantly with my extremely difficult buyer.
Isn't it the job of the EA to obtain the best possible price for the Vendor? Market forces will determine whether the Agent has got the price right or not bearing in mind that value for money is in the eye of the beholder. If it had been up to me (and I am in Property don't forget) I would have undervalued my Daughters house by around 4 possibly 5k but the 2 people who really wanted it thought that the price was right for them to pay. The EA my Daughter employed had the price spot-on for all the reasons I have described above.
Well seems to me that 3 years ago 100 people could have afforded the flat, now only 4. The market has just gone too crazy by far, so what do you estate agents suggest to solve the problem you've created??
well there's ignorance for you! When the market was going crazy agents were being forced by sellers to push prices up.Do you really think we would make it that difficult for ourselves. If you did n't give the price a seller wanted they would go to another agent now whose created the problem. It's fear and greed that drives a market. Do you think that anyone would price their property for less than a neighbours! The amount of times I have been told by a vendor that they have the largest house in the terrace despite them all being identical. Or the vendors who lie that a house has sold for x amount to try to persuade the agent to put a higher price on Don't shoot the messenger mate!
Talk about passing the buck!! Aren't you estate agents meant to advise us on the best realistic price to ask for our property? I had 5 valuations and 4 were all roughly the same amount, the 5th was 10k lower. So I chose the higher amount and the agent who at the time gave the impression they could sell the house. I'm now wondering, since there has been very little interest in the property, if the lower price was more realistic. But would anyone else have made a different decision than me? How can you blame the vendors for inflating the prices when even the agents can't decide on a consistent value? But anyway it doesn't matter what price you ask, the house is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Which brings us back to the lack of interest in your flat compared with a few years ago...
I say again! Would you put your house on the market for 50k less than a similar house that sold in your street 6 months ago despite the agents telling you prices have gone down. I have yet to meet that person! Everyone mistrusts our opinion, so you have to go through the time consuming process of marketing at last years out of date value, in the vain hope that a sucker will come along before you eventually reduce to a reasonable up to date value. The problem for agents is that many don't reduce they just take their property off the market blaming the agent for a poor performance, so the agent pays for three months marketing costs
"The greatest trick the Devil played, was convincing us all that he did not exist"
I have not always agreed with Immy in the past but I do in this case. I also do not believe that a house it worth what someone is prepared to pay for it otherwise you would not get mortgage companies down valuing houses when it comes to getting a mortgage.
As a former EA (20 years ago) I can clearly remember valuing houses only to lose the instruction to another agent who had added a few thousand to it. I can also recall selling a very big self build for £120k which was very well finished inside but looked a bit plain from the outside. Got called round to the house directly opposite which looked ok but was no where near the same standard. I knew they would be looking for more and thought that maybe the market had moved up a bit so valued it at £130k at which point i was practically thrown out and they complained to the Regional Manager !! The women was furious and 'knew' her house was worth a lot more than 'that one' over the road. A week later another agent had it on for £160k !!!! Unbelievable. I can't remember if it sold or not but if it did another fine example of a house not being worth what someone was prepared to pay.
Pricing is a weird thing, tho'. When I put our house on the market, we had valuations ranging from 230k to 165k. In the end, we went with the agent who had offered the highest price, but NOT at that price,as he was the one who was most enthusiastic about the house. The other agents either made weird comments- as in the one who told us 'Your house has too many period features' (It's a 18th century cottage!)- or didn't return our calls promptly. Our chosen agent was the only one who followed up his viewing with a written confirmation the same day. As well as a well produced 'spec'. We also always made it clear that we were open to offers if the buyer was serious.
Originally posted by immy21: I say again! Would you put your house on the market for 50k less than a similar house that sold in your street 6 months ago despite the agents telling you prices have gone down.
No way.
quote:
Originally posted by immy21: I have yet to meet that person! Everyone mistrusts our opinion, so you have to go through the time consuming process of marketing at last years out of date value, in the vain hope that a sucker will come along before you eventually reduce to a reasonable up to date value.
Err. Is this theory or are you saying actual sale prices (as opposed to asking prices) for some properties have gone down 50K in six months? I know I'm more of a bear than most here but even I don't believe this unless you are talking about a very very expensive property!!!
quote:
Originally posted by immy21: The problem for agents is that many don't reduce they just take their property off the market blaming the agent for a poor performance, so the agent pays for three months marketing costs.
My friend is trying to sell his house since Oct-only 16 viewings, 2 price reductions and today approached a new agent who told him that achieved prices have dropped 20% in the last six months in his area, which is normally very bouyant and fast selling. Original price: £369000. Take off 20% -£72000, So Immy's £50K doesn't seem that bad to me.
As the thread seems to have shifted a bit from the originial complaint, can I add a word about estate agents?
We're renovating a property for resale, and were unsure about proceeding with one 'job'on the project - couldn't decide if a downstairs loo was a good idea, as it would compromise reception space - the three partners funding the project couldn't agree; we'd got to deadlock and needed advice. I rang local estate agents on Easter Saturday, every single one put me through to an experienced valuer who listened to the details, asked questions, and then advised. None asked for our business, all were happy to take time to explain what's selling well within that sector of the market in our area. Each of them made exactly the same points, and gave the same advice. It's saved us an expensive mistake, and I'm grateful for it. Sure, one of them will probably get some business from us in the end, but pinning me down to give details and taking aggressive steps to gain that business didn't enter into the phone conversations.
The fact of the matter is, is that property is VASTLY overvalued.
Greed and fear, the prime mover of all financial markets.Seller wont reduce, because of losing 'profit' (fear and greed).Buyer wont buy, because of losing hard cash (fear).
I agree with immy, its not just the agents that set the price.However people have been force fed the 'spring bounce', 'houses stabilising', 'we're loaded as we own property', 'property's a one way bet' blah blah blah ......... and now the vendors want DELIVERY!!!!
The crux of the matter is very very simple, people can either not afford property anymore, particularly first time buyers, or they are not prepared to take the risk of losing a stack of cash by buying at the peak in propert prices.
If one wants to sell, then you must reduce your price, so that it looks CHEAP, theres probably 1 serious buyer, per 20 houses or something with more and more coming on the market, you have to make them choose YOURS.
I dont understand why all these reports from the Estate Agents Body and the Halifax / Nationwide etc are always saying prices are continuing to rise, when they are evidently lying? Are they just trying to convince people? Surly they'd be better of saying they are falling at 5% a month, get prices down and resume business as normal ....... where people can actually afford to buy the products that they offer.
I feel that we are rocking to and fro on the edge of a cliff at the moment .........
Oh and i'm a bit of a bear too ...... in case you hadn't noticed!
Originally posted by immy21: I say again! Would you put your house on the market for 50k less than a similar house that sold in your street 6 months ago despite the agents telling you prices have gone down. I have yet to meet that person! Everyone mistrusts our opinion, so you have to go through the time consuming process of marketing at last years out of date value, in the vain hope that a sucker will come along before you eventually reduce to a reasonable up to date value. The problem for agents is that many don't reduce they just take their property off the market blaming the agent for a poor performance, so the agent pays for three months marketing costs
Here Here! Totally agree!!
And whats worse, they move to another agent and then reduce their price! Why didn't they let us do that in the first place!!!! GRRRRRR!
Oh no it does doesn't, I think its freekin hilarious, long let all you Estate agents be skint and go bust, you had a major part to play in creating this mess, I shall enjoy sitting back and watching you either talk the market back down or go to the wall.
) who does just that. He valued a house in our road a couple of years ago, as did another agent notorious for overpricing. Owner wants to go with Derek because he has a reputation for outstanding integrity and efficiency, but she wants him to put it on at the other EA's higher valuation. Derek refuses because knows it wouldn't sell, customer would be disappointed, and his reputation would suffer. He would rather lose the sale. Owner puts it on with other EA, house sits there failing to sell (in a vibrant market) and when the contract expires a few weeks later, owner crawls back to Derek who sells it in a fortnight at his lower, realistic valuation. Derek maintains his reputation and gets the sale too 
