Hi all, I need some advice. I'm in the process of buying a house with a beautiful attic conversion, but without building regs. The problem is that the current owner has called in an inspector from the building depeartment. Approval has been declined. There is a long list of items that would need to be completed. It is still not clear if the new joists that were put in are sufficient. My most recent correspondence indicates that the council considers the space to be habitable and requires either the loft conversion to be brought up to standard or for the loft conversion to be dismantled. It is essentially no longer an option to call it storage space and sell it as is which the seller was probably planning to do.

This is not a happy thought, as we were planning to use the loft conversion as a bedroom. The solicitor also said that we would encounter problems with insurance, should something happen. I am also not sure of the council's time frame, as this should be completed before the council gets nasty.

Should we wait this out and see what the owner wants to do? The house can't really be sold as it is, and the loft was one of the features that attracted us to the property in the first place.

Would you get some quotes from loft conversion companies and then have that amount deducted from the sale price, hence having them take over the building reg. problems? Please advise.

Unless there is absolutely nothing else suitable on the market, personally I would not take this on. It could all end up costing more in money and aggravation than initially thought, and once all the required alterations are made it might be a less appealing space. But of course I don't know the full story of what needs to be corrected.

Contraventions to be addressed:
Lift floor boards to inspect joist construction
Fire door not present
Escape window not present
Floor construction does not satisfy 30 min fire resistance
Insufficient roof insulation
No cross ventilation to roof void
Install self closing devises to lower doors
Mains operated, fire detection system

Does anyone have a ball park idea of the costs of these repairs? Note, the roof will be replaced this year solving the roof ventilation, insulation issues, as well as escape hatch. The joist size is unknown, is said to be up to building standards of the time when it was built, 1990's.

I really think it's up to an expert to sort it out, it's no longer a DIY job.

We are really invested in this house, otherwise we wouldn't bother. Thanks in advance.

If the property is priced to allow for all the roof stuff (ventilation insulation & escape window) to be addressed, the other points don't sound too painful. The one unknown is the joists, you need to find out the situation before you get a couple of builders to quote for the work. Have Building Control said what they would accept in terms of 30 min fire flooring? (In our loft it entailed a loft subfloor of chipboard, and hardboarding over the floorboards on the landing).

quote:

Originally posted by velvet:
Unless there is absolutely nothing else suitable on the market, personally I would not take this on.

I totally agree, tell them to sort it out before you can proceed. Not even knowing the size of the joists is a big unknown. You won't be able to guess the reconstruction costs.

Hmm - we actually are currently in the process of selling a flat with a beautiful loft conversion without building regs. When we bought it, it (obviously) didn't have building regs either. However, the conversion was done a little more than 20 years ago, if I remember, and so (I think this must be right as it still exists!) didn't need to either to be dismantled or to be converted properly. Mr Haster's father is a head planning honcho and advised us on this throughout - with his advice, we got a structural engineering firm to investigate the quality of the conversion, including in particular the strength of the joists, and to advise on whether we should turn it into a proper conversion. Their advice was that it was sufficiently well-built (though not brilliantly insulated and needed new windows) to be used as a room without any danger, but that it could not be made to comply with building regulations without entirely re-designing the layout of the entire flat and losing a bedroom - not impossible, but not really sensible.

Your main problem will be the floor joists.
If these do not satisfy the building regs. and need to replaced/strengthened then this will cost a fair chunk of money according to the size of the replacement floor area.
Only a builder carrying out an on-site inspection can tell you costings to rectify.
Mel.

I have recently spoken to our local Building regs person about loft conversions. He told me that in April 2007 the regs changed quite a bit, so I guess it depends if you have to follow the regs as they are now, or as they were when the work was done. Just to list some of the changes relating to those mentioned in your post.

Escape windows do not need to be installed anymore as long as there is an enclosed direct exit to the outside (stairs)
All habitable rooms leading to the stairway / exit must now have firedoors (this can be achieved with a special paint apparantly). Habitable rooms do not include bathrooms, but I believe there may be different rules for kitchens.
Those door chain closer thingies that firedoors had to have are not required anymore.

Good luck

Druzil

Thanks for your input, we're still waiting to hear what the builder says, apparently, he's consulting with local building control.

Good old building regs! Many of the things OP listed would not even have been in the building regs when work was originally done, but they have to comply with regs in force at time of regularisation (or not in this case).
Not sure about escape windows not being required - as it certainly was last summer when I costed up a conversion. The whole point of the fire door is to give you time to get out of somewhere else. Bath rooms have their own set of regs.
At least you can't have an indemnity policy foisted on you now.

From what I gatherered when talking to the B. Reg. guy was that the window was not required as long as the room had direct access to the stair which should be enclosed to the exit (front door). Maybe someone in the know can clear this one up for us. I certainly need to know sometime in the future.
Cheers Druzil

The regs have always stated you had to have a clean means of escape to the exit with all doors (except bathroom) onto the stairwell having closers/being firedoors - as well as the escape window. I would be surprised if they had now relaxed the rules, regs usually tend to get more stringent rather than less. Does your council have a good website where you could view the regulations?

Yes, I can't help thinking that our whole flat is a dodgy layout for fire, let alone the loft converson - in that the kitchen is open plan to the stairs, which are the only way out. (It appears to have been converted in about 1966, when perhaps they didn't care about things like that) Of course, in real life, if the kitchen and stairs caught fire you could quite happily step out of the 1st floor bedroom window onto the bay window of the ground floor and let yourself down onto a wheely bin. However, I suspect that climbing out of windows is not official building regs policy.

To sum things up, the attic will need to be completely redone as the joists are not good enough. Cost as esimated by builder £12,000. I haven't seen the quote, it is said to be very comprehensive. The work would be completed at the highest standard. We've been offered an allowance of £10,000 and will have to complete the works ourselves. Do you think there's any chance of a cheaper quote? I will wait for a copy of the quote to make the final decision. Thanks again for the advice.

Of course it all depends on how much you want the house, but in buyers market I would be looking to offer 15-20k less for the work and inconvenience. Take it or leave it.

Since we don't know the full details it is not really possible to say what it might cost. My loft conv (in London), which was classed as a small loft plus ensuite, cost £25K four years ago. So I would be surprised if you could get it done for less than £12K. In your case it will be more mess and aggravation than usual, because you already have it knocked through (normally they do the main part of the work before they knock through to put the stairs in).

Also I would want to see proper plans for the new loft, because it could be the stairs will have to be moved if they do not comply, and this could involve the loss of space on the first floor. So you could end up with a less pleasing layout.

It is not reasonable for the vendor to offer you £10K off when the quote is for more than that (plus the aggravation). I would be looking for at least £12K off the price, and unless there was absolutely nothing else on the market I would be looking elsewhere.