Hope you can help, please! Both sets of neighbours had previously said they had no problem with us having a rear extension done. Duly gave them a Party Wall Notice with deadline set for next Friday (=14 days). Both sets of neighbours seem concerned that it's a pitched roof extension. One neighbour has also now thrown a bit of a wobbly saying that our building work will affect the sale of their house . Now we think there's a possibility they may exercise their right/prerogative to a appoint a surveyor (which we'll have to pay for). My question is this: If we are deemed to be 'in dispute' if they don't reply to the Notice within 14 days, does this count as a neighbourly dispute when they come to sell? Also, is there anything we can do to avoid the cost of a PW surveyor (ie. anything we can do to appease)? If not, any idea how many £000s this may set us back? (Property Ladder springs to mind... ) As always, would appreciate your advice/comments (reassurance?)
It is very unlikely to cost loads, I got a surveyor to agree the boundary line between us and also the condition of next door's driveway before i started work. Cost £350 If there aren't any complicated structural or surveying issues then it should be relatively inexpensive.
any more questions just let me know as I got well up to speed on this just so I knew exactly what the process is.
When we had our extension built, we told our neighbours what we intended to do and they said they didn't object to anything as it was our house on our property.
The builders made a start and then the neighbours changed their minds saying they didn't expect us to put a pitched roof either - just like your neighbours, but to have a flat roof would have looked horrific in context with the rest of our house.
Luckily the architect was "on site" and spoke to the neighbours making them feel 1" tall - he was great. Needlesstosay, we fell out for nearly a year, before they eventually came to their senses and came round to apologise and actually admitted the extension enhanced the appearance of our home.
I wish you all the luck in the world - as you may need it at the beginning, but don't worry too much once the building has been done. People will see that you too will have a beautiful house and will recognise that you only wanted to improve your property (and the area too).
Spoke to our architect who said if they wanted to cause problems the surveyors fees could be anything from £1000 to £3000 . We're on a tightish budget, so we're hoping that our neighbours will choose a surveyor who isn't out to make a killing (if it gets that far)! I understand that they want to protect their property, but we feel that they're being difficult because we didn't show them the plans before getting approval. We didn't think it was necessary as we'd already explained what we were doing, and it's not as though it's anything special, just a bog standard pitched roof extension. We included a copy of the plans with the PW notice, which they said they'd be showing to some surveyors and builders 'friends'.
Does anyone know whether, when they come to sell their house, any 'dispute' arising from the Party Wall Notice would have to be included in the solicitors details (ie. have there been any disputes with the neighbours)? If they're worried about the affect of our building on their sale, surely any disputes are more likely to put off potential buyers? Is this something worth mentioning to them if necessary?
You shouldn't need to show the plans to anyone jray. Your architect would have sent them to the planning office and they should have posted notices locally to advise residents of your intentions. If they had any objections that would have been their opportunity to raise them.
You may not have to legally have shown the plans to them, but probably would have been a good neighbourly thing to do, to give them as much info as possible. Still, easy to overlook. Best of luck.
What is the problem with a pitched roof, exactly? Why would they object to a pitched roof and not a flat one?
Point taken with showing them the plans beforehand. Although they were so 'Yes, of course, go ahead, no problem' that we thought they weren't bothered about seeing them. (Well, THAT's a lesson learnt!)
The problem they say they have is that the pitched roof would start just below their bedroom window level, and that they would see "too much side wall from their garden" . When I checked with the architect, he said that the back wall of a pitched extension would actually be slightly lower than the back wall of a flat roof extension, and so the amount of wall the neighbours would see would on average be the same ( ). I really think that their main issue is that because the plans have already been approved, they think it's a done deal, which in a way it is, but we said that if they had any concerns they should still let us know. Sometimes it's ok to change things slightly even after approval. (We don't want to bend too far over backwards though!)
Incidentally, both sets of neighbours have had conservatories built (before we moved there), so the height of the pitch wouldn't be excessively higher than those of their conservatories, and they wouldn't even notice it when inside their conservatories.
The more I think about it, the more I'm tempted not to be so accommodating, it's just the potential money issue which is causing us to bite our tongues a bit!
Originally posted by jray: The problem they say they have is that the pitched roof would start just below their bedroom window level, and that they would see "too much side wall from their garden"
Not knowing the details this may not be appropriate but if there is going to be room how about offering to put a bit of trellis and some nice climbing plant to hide the side wall?
I know it's very tempting not to 'play ball' with neighbours who you think are being unreasonable, but I think in this situation, you'd be best off holding your tongue and showing them that you appreciate their concerns. After all, your building work probably will be unpleasant for them while it's going on - it will be noisy and dusty and they'll have builders climbing around the roof, just as the first of the nice weather is coming in and they want to enjoy their garden. Then you'll have builders' vans parking by your house, maybe a skip for a couple of weeks... And this is at best - at worst, building works could cause your neighbours significant trouble and expense (our neighbours' builders destroyed our septic tank!).
If I were you (and having failed to do this in the past myself, so this is the wisdom of hindsight), I'd go round to the neighbours with a bottle of wine and say that you'd like them to tell you all their worries about your plans. Don't start arguing with them that they aren't worries - just listen to their worries and make a note of them. Then, ask them what they see as the solution to some of them. For example, like Fran Tick, they might like the suggestion of putting up the trellis and flowering plants. (again, get their ideas here, not your ideas) Then tell them that you're going to go back to your architect with their worries. Then come back next week with your architect's responses, so that it's clear that their concerns have been listened to and addressed - for example, he's already said that the wall height of the pitched roof will be lower than the height of the flat roof.
Just to mention, I wouldn't worry about the '14 day' issue - one of my neighbours took a few weeks to send back her copy of the party wall agreement. As long as they sign it, doesn't matter how long it takes.
Hope you manage to sort out their issues without recourse to a surveyor.
Many many thanks for your suggestions. I really appreciate them. Yes, Fran Tick, the idea of trellis on the sides sounds great, actually - hadn't thought of that. (Maybe some honeysuckle, perhaps?)
Re the bottle of wine, we did offer a bottle of wine (as we usually do at Easter), but these particular neighbours refused it.
I do take on board that we need to hold our tongues - we're not the confrontational sort at all - especially as you're right, Hatster, in saying they'll be inconvenienced while the work is going on.
We're actually seeing the other set of neighbours at the weekend, as they say they have a few questions/concerns, which we're more than happy to hear and act on as necessary. We'll give the 'problem' neighbours time to cool off a bit and then approach them again.
Velvet, if you're right on the 14 day issue, that would be a great relief, because we thought that legally things have to be set in motion after the 14 days have passed. I certainly hope we don't resort to surveyors. We've already stated in the PW Notice that we'd put right anything that may go wrong (though we're not expecting anything to!)
Velvet, if you're right on the 14 day issue, that would be a great relief, because we thought that legally things have to be set in motion after the 14 days have passed. I certainly hope we don't resort to surveyors. We've already stated in the PW Notice that we'd put right anything that may go wrong (though we're not expecting anything to!)
The way I interpreted it was that you were entitled to assume after 14 days that they were tacitly refusing and begin to get the party wall surveyors involved if you wished to - so as not to have to wait forever for a recalcitrant neighbour. It wouldn't really make sense to be automatic - what if the neighbours were away and just didn't get to see the agreement within the 14 days?
The neighbour on one side of us is an 'absent freeholder' so we had to post the agreement to her - radio silence ensued and we had no idea if she had received it, had concerns, whatever. After three weeks I began to think we had better assume she wasn't happy - then the signed agreement arrived through the letterbox. Similarly when I had to sign one for our other neighbour, I just get didn't round to it for weeks on end, there was no rush because the works weren't due to begin for some time. Both sets of works went ahead without problem.
I think you will find that the party wall act does not take into account the fact that they don't like to look at your roof (that is a planning matter). The PWA covers structural issues and access arrangements. A surveyor would only really look at the foundations and whether there would be an issue as well as any encroachment, not aesthetics. If they did refuse to sign, then you appoint a surveyor, who has to look after all parties interests, he would more than likely tell them to get real.
Spoke to architect (again!) who said that after the 14 days, the neighbours would have 10 days to appoint their surveyor. If nothing had been done after 10 days lapsed, then we would have to appoint a surveyor for them.
The only slight problem I can see is on the 'friendly' side, where the rainwater drain is right on the boundary. As you said madhushi, I guess the PWA would cover access to this? Although I would hope that any competent builder would be able to come up with a solution, either to relocate it (cost???) or retain some kind of access to it.
We'll wait to see what the weekend discussions bring ...
OH spoke to 'friendly' neighbours at the weekend. We share a rainwater gully/drain which is right on the boundary, and to move it would mean digging up their patio and possibly their wall , which understandably they don't want to pay for. They spoke to local Building Control who suggested best course of action would be to get a surveyor, however, this surveyor is willing to act for both of us at a cost of £600 (MUCH better than anticipated ). Surveyor will be speaking to our architect about where to site drain. Not sure how much redoing their patio/wall will cost us though!
Re PW letter, do they still need to return it to us, or do we just send them a follow-up letter confirming the use of a surveyor?
I'd be really interested in hearing how this goes - we're going through exactly the same thing at the moment. We have planning permission now, but we're being held up waiting for the party wall agreements to be sorted. worried about how long it can take and how much it can cost
. Now we think there's a possibility they may exercise their right/prerogative to a appoint a surveyor (which we'll have to pay for). My question is this: If we are deemed to be 'in dispute' if they don't reply to the Notice within 14 days, does this count as a neighbourly dispute when they come to sell? Also, is there anything we can do to avoid the cost of a PW surveyor (ie. anything we can do to appease)? If not, any idea how many £000s this may set us back? (Property Ladder springs to mind... 
)
. We're on a tightish budget, so we're hoping that our neighbours will choose a surveyor who isn't out to make a killing (if it gets that far)! I understand that they want to protect their property, but we feel that they're being difficult because we didn't show them the plans before getting approval. We didn't think it was necessary as we'd already explained what we were doing, and it's not as though it's anything special, just a bog standard pitched roof extension. We included a copy of the plans with the PW notice, which they said they'd be showing to some surveyors and builders 'friends'.
). I really think that their main issue is that because the plans have already been approved, they think it's a done deal, which in a way it is, but we said that if they had any concerns they should still let us know. Sometimes it's ok to change things slightly even after approval. (We don't want to bend too far over backwards though!)
