Hello This is my first post on here, so here goes. Hope someone out there can read this and give me some advice, there doesnt seem to be any advice for this kind of situation. As I was moving abroad a neighbour said he would like to buy my house, i was planning to be back in UK after a couple of years so said no. While i was away i decided i would sell up and move to a different part of the country, let the house and when i returned start afresh in the new house. I instructed an AE I had to return to UK due to family problems, was there a matter of minutes when the guy who had approached me months before ask if i would agreed to sell to him. I said yes this time as it suited me. I told the agent also asked what happens as the guy didnt go through them. they just ignored my question, then the thing is they asked his name so they could put it on record. They then contacted him a few times. Well time has passed and the sale completed and ow i have a letter from the AE asking for their fee as if they introduced us, negotiated, saw it through to completion. The sale went through at a higher price than was mentioned by the AE. What do i do?
The house sale was last year and so the solicitor no longer works for us, the bill was sent to them but the solicitor posted it on to us. The contract i had was in the form of a letter which said "no sale no fee, 1% commission plus VAT and the agreed sale price. Other than that it was my name and address, contacts, 28 days notice to cancel the contract.
Sorry about this, i havent been granted permission to edit my own post yet, so i will have to use reply.
Forgot one major piece of information!
the agent has admitted there is no sole agency agreement, just the letter i wrote and when pushed to explain what no sale no fee means he sent me a copy of his sole agency agreement with one of my emails which now has "treat as SAA" written on the top (not my wiritng)
Our house is on the market. The EA we used asked us to write down names of anyone who had shown interest/wanted to buy the house before they were taken on, presumably on the basis that if anyone other than those people made an approach it would be assumed to be through seeing the house for sale through them and a fee would be payable. Do you think you could negotiate a reduced fee with the EA? I guess they may feel that your neighbour only knew the house was for sale again because of their board.
The house wasnt on the market at all when i was first approached by the neighbour, he knew that i was about to leave the country and thought he would check if i was thinking of selling before i went, by that time i wasnt thinking of selling at all, hadnt been in touch with an agent. He knew the house and wanted his daughter to be close by so thought it was an ideal opportunity to check with me.
Originally posted by danny_c.: ........The contract i had was in the form of a letter which said "no sale no fee, 1% commission plus VAT and the agreed sale price. Other than that it was my name and address, contacts, 28 days notice to cancel the contract.
This doesn't sound like a contract it sounds like an invoice. Nobody can actually advise you without knowing exactly what the contract says. For example a sole agentcy agreement is completely different to a sole selling agreement
This is a difficult situation to know your rights.
We also sold to someone who we knew.... we showed them round the house without them going to the agent, but we still had to pay fees, but we did have sole agency.
I think agents can claim they "marketed" your house , even if the purchaser only saw their "For Sale" board outside the house, or an ad in the window, paper or advertised on the internet by the agents.
Perhaps citizen's Advice would be able to advise you? Or try moneysavingexpert's site, there is often good advice there.
Further to our conversation we would like to go ahead at a price of £..........
I acknowledge your fee will be 1% plus VAT, no sale no fee.
We acknowledge i will give 28 days in writing to cancel this contract.
Regards
My name
It really is as simply as that, nothing left out.
But now the agent refers to this letter as a SAA. The neighbour contacted me at least 2 months before i spoke to the agent in anyway, well before i even thought of selling.
No he didnt go to them for viewings, waited til i was home and asked me as i was getting my cases out of the car. I showed him round, his house is practically the same as mine so he knew it anyway. He wasnt on their mailing list, didnt go in to their office.
Like i said before, the agent asked me for his name "for their records" when i went in to tell him i had found my own buyer. By the next morning they had written to my buyer and he asked them not to do it again. Didnt make any difference they just continued.
Even though they didn't introduce him at first, he approached you the second time due to seeing the for sale board so they would say you should pay them.
Or you could ignore the bill and let them take you to court (if they dare).
I acknowledge your fee will be 1% plus VAT, no sale no fee.
Your contract should not be a letter you wrote to the estate agents. Your contract should be a formal document that the estate agents got you to sign and its what that document says that is important.
If you are relying on the letter you wrote to the estate agents then you have rather snookered yourself because that only says no sale no fee. It does not say anything about the estate agent having to introduce the buyer. There was a sale so under the terms of your letter a fee is due. That is why i asked above whether the contract for for a sole agency agreement or a sole selling rights agreement. Under the latter you are liable to pay the EA's fees regsardlss of who does the introduction.
When you sign a proper EA's legal contract you sign as having read the conditions and terms of the sale and you actually havn't read and signed anything.
I would in this case bluff it out because from what I know and have seen any small claims court would throw this case out as 'not answerable' Would you not agree Lawyer Lady? Mel.
In this mornings post i have had a letter from a management company, i think its a debt collection firm!
They want the money and some legal expenses.
Never had anythng like this before, so really dont know what to do.
They are going to send a person round, do you think i should have had something to tell me this was going to happen, do they have to sign legal documents to pass my info to someone else, is there something i should ask to see? I have a number to ring or an address to send the cheque to or pay by credit/debit card. This seems a bit over the top. I wouldnt mind but this isnt about not paying it is about paying a fair amount according to the contract/letter i wrote. Out of my depth now!
I didnt even seen their terms and conditions for weeks after i asked for a copy. So if i say i am about to pay, i could be setting myself up for all sorts of stuff that they then throw in.
Yesterday I posted complaints in writing to Fair Trade Office and the NAEA, but read that if i am doing that and there is a genuine dispute this should not have been passed onto anyone else. How can you prove you are in dispute not just being unreasonable?
Lovely. Debt collection agencies try to scare people into paying up without going to court. The "legal expenses" are their fees and not a court appointed figure. If they send someone round, they are not a bailiff - do not give them any money. Write back to the debt collection agency and the EA telling them that you dispute the bill and you will discuss the matter in court and not to bother you otherwise, but be prepared for further pressure and harassment.
Have to say though that this will turn into your word against theirs and the most convincing argument will win the day, which may not be the most truthful...
Emailed and faxed both EA and debt ppl, told them i dispute the matter.
Will wait to see what happens next, also asked who the debt collection people are and if they have any proof that this is anythng to do with them in the first place.
Is there something i should ask them to give me to proove they are who they say they are and doing what they are legally allowed to do?
I totally agree with Stampman above. I think it is now time for you to go to the CAB and or a solicitor (with all the documentation you have) to get some proper legal advice - if only to give you a bit of peace of mind. Good luck
The difficulty with the CAB is that i am still away from UK and wont be back for a couple of months due to work. by that time it is going to be too late to make a difference. I suppose i could just say let them get on with it, but it isnt the way i operate, i dont like lose ends and would rather face this full on whatever the consequences, but i wont be bullied into doing something unless it is right.
Estate Agents work largely on trust, and plenty of people attempt, once a buyer is found, to avoid paying the Agent. Your solicitor would normally pay the Agent on completion of the sale and since they didn't, I aasume you might be OK not to pay. But obviously either you have not asked your solicitor which is why you are asking here, or you have asked your solicitor and don't like the advice they have given.
If you signed a paper giving them sole agency then you are definitely liable and will have to pay - a small claims court hearing would take about ten seconds to find against you and you'ld have costs to pay as well; while the court costs would be small, if the Agent used a lawyer you could be stung for a hefty payment.
Frankly if you did not want to pay an Agent you should not have gone to one. The 1% fee sounds very low, as though you did give them sole agency.
If you are being dishonest here, they will pursue the matter and you will have severe difficulties for many years. The only tip I can offer you is that if that is the case whenever in the future you try to enter any type of financial transaction, do not give your real name. And this will apply even if you have been forced to pay by a court.
Originally posted by johnbee: Estate Agents work largely on trust, and plenty of people attempt, once a buyer is found, to avoid paying the Agent. Your solicitor would normally pay the Agent on completion of the sale and since they didn't, I aasume you might be OK not to pay. But obviously either you have not asked your solicitor which is why you are asking here, or you have asked your solicitor and don't like the advice they have given.
I thought this is how it worked too - the solicitor paid the EA on completion! They would have deducted all fees (including their own fees) from the sale proceeds before passing the remaining balance onto you!
Danny c - you said this sale was completed last year, i would want to know why this has just arisen now - could the EA's be sorting our their end of year books and realised that your "fees" are unpaid! I appreciate that your solicitor you dealt with, you are no longer in contact with, but, i would personally telephone the solicitor that dealt with the sale and see what they have to say about it - especially as you are not the country at the moment, therefore making it difficult to contact CAB etc.
I cant comment on whether you are liable for the fees or not - but i'm sure your solicitor who dealt with it, would be able to tell you one way or the other - then at least you know where you stand legally (i hope)!
I cant comment on whether you are liable for the fees or not -
However, do you not agree that SAA mentioned originally probably is short for Sole Agency Agreement?
\\And that the low 1`% fee, and the short time period also sound very much like a sole agency?
And that if the Agent was the Sole Agent, then the fee will be payable?
The possible loophole is the 28 days, but it certainly seems that a willing buyer was found fast, which will be within that period anyway. So, the guy might have to pay up or take the consequences.
I say this because he is getting lots of answers which are either neutral or are positively encouraging him to avoid paying what might well be a legitimate debt, and certainly sounds like it is.
Please norte that I am not criticising all the responders, it is nice to see people helping, but sounding a very strong warning note that he should be careful.
A Sole Agency Agreement would relate to the EA being the only EA instructed.
It is usual to be asked to provide details of any potential interested parties who might buy the property, so that if a deal goes ahead with any of these people then no fees are due.
Anyone else is deemed to have been "marketed" to by the EA. And yes, seeing the for sale board counts, so does seeing the ad in their window - all these things cost them money, and they should be rewarded if these efforts gain you a buyer.
Where this seems to get very peculiar is that the OP seems not to have signed a contract with his EA (very unusual!) and instead seems to think he created his own in the form of this letter. I agree, the terms of the letter would suggest a fee is due (no mention of what happens if he finds his own buyer) but I find it very strange that he should actually be having to rely on this as "the contract".
The fact that the solicitors didn't deduct the fee also suggest that they did not deem that one was payable.
The OP really must get back in touch with the solicitor who dealt with this case. They are likely to be able to offer a fairly swift resolution.
In the meantime, you must ensure that the debt collection agency are aware the the sum is contested, although don't expect them to be very quick at noting their records...
