Comment: George Monbiot

Should 2nd home owners be taxed prohibitively?Discuss!

I can't open that link, but no, second home owners are entitled to do whatever they want with their money.

People who crticise second home owners are often displaying simple old-fashioned jealousy.

this is it

I'd suggest that there's no easy answer to this. Firstly, any discount in council tax for a second home is ridiculous, more often than not these home owners contribute nothing to their community - a pint of milk and a Sunday Times once every 3 months is not supporting your community. It's hard for me to go back to my home village and see so many houses with shutters up only being used 4/5 weekends a year whilst my friends are struggling to buy a property of any kind (even renting is becoming prohibitive), I agree that no one has the right to buy where they wish, however in the area I refer to (south west Scotland) this is a recent development - 10 years ago you couldn't give property away, however people are suddenly realising that there is so much to offer and it is still fairly close to the cities.

That said, the day that the government decrees who can buy property and where, will be a sad one indeed. The only workaround I can see is for more community housing to be built with covenant stating that they should be sold to those who have lived in the area for a period of time or who work in the area, of course this will raise awkward questions over who should be eligible and then when people come to sell they'll no doubt complain about their low returns.. like I say - not straight forward

Those who can afford second homes have already been taxed over and over. They should pay 50% council tax. His statement about 'not putting anything into the community' has nothing to do with council tax. We pay that for what we get out of the community don't we? If some places are supposedly ghost towns for most of the year, who sold their homes to out of towners anyway? The young of said villages couldn't have afforded to buy there regardless of whether someone from the city bought a house or not. If it's for sale and you can afford it, then buy it.

I can see a logic in perhaps introducing a second home tax which goes into the housing funds for the area in which your second property is located, but no way should it be 500% of the council tax.

"Every purchase of a second house deprives someone else of a first one."

This comment is so wrong it's untrue.

The Government is encouraging everyone to save for their retirements. Company pensions are being scaled down, private pensions are being raped by GB and interest rates are extremely low. You can hardly blame people for investing in second, third etc. properties for the long term capital gain. After all, it's what the Government is encouraging them to do.

In todays society it is the youngsters, of todays, fault for being born 10 years too late and thats tough! Thats the impression I seem to get anyway.

I feel sorry for them, the older generation had it easy in hindsight!

I don't blame people for buying second homes but I still basically agree with the writer. And I also am not optimistic about anything being done.

I think these sort of views will become more and more prevalent over the coming years.

where I live is mostly second homes (not me! I have enough trouble paying for this one!). people who have lived here longer tell me that 15-20 years ago the properties were mostly derelict because nobody wanted them - least of all the young locals. they wanted to get away into the towns, to the amenities, and who can blame them. now these properties are going for sky-high prices and the locals are complaining.

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The young of said villages couldn't have afforded to buy there regardless of whether someone from the city bought a house or not. If it's for sale and you can afford it, then buy it.

I can see a logic in perhaps introducing a second home tax which goes into the housing funds for the area in which your second property is located, but no way should it be 500% of the council tax.

The prices only increased dramatically when outside forces started to come into play, if houses are bought and sold by people who are living and working in the community then the prices will generally be within reach of others in that community. When it comes to an offers over scenario, it tends to be those who live and work elsewhere who have the financial clout to vastly out bid anyone working in the area. Yes, prices have increased dramatically in all parts of the UK, but in certain rural parts this has been hugely exaggerated by second home buyers.

Whether it's council tax, or second home tax, something needs to be done to address the imbalance.

quote:

Originally posted by reverand:
In todays society it is the youngsters, of todays, fault for being born 10 years too late and thats tough! Thats the impression I seem to get anyway.

I feel sorry for them, the older generation had it easy in hindsight!

I don't believe there was a golden age of cheap housing accessable to everyone. There was a short period of liberal mortgage lending which lasted from the beginning of BTL (1999/2000?) to financial returns disabling the need (2004?). Getting the genie back will be all but impossible.
More building is undoubtedly the answer though whether the political will is there is another question. Crippling taxes and social engineering are not the way out of this.

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Originally posted by slapmatt:
"Every purchase of a second house deprives someone else of a first one."

This comment is so wrong it's untrue.

The Government is encouraging everyone to save for their retirements. Company pensions are being scaled down, private pensions are being raped by GB and interest rates are extremely low. You can hardly blame people for investing in second, third etc. properties for the long term capital gain. After all, it's what the Government is encouraging them to do.

This is a different topic altogether, if you are buying property to rent out, then at least you are providing accommodation for others. This still creates issues for first time buyers (who need to be buying for the rest of the market to keep moving), but at least that property is being lived in.

Second home owners who leave property empty for such a long time both price people out of the market and create a shortage of housing.

quote:

Originally posted by MacFlat:

quote:

Originally posted by slapmatt:
"Every purchase of a second house deprives someone else of a first one."

This comment is so wrong it's untrue.

The Government is encouraging everyone to save for their retirements. Company pensions are being scaled down, private pensions are being raped by GB and interest rates are extremely low. You can hardly blame people for investing in second, third etc. properties for the long term capital gain. After all, it's what the Government is encouraging them to do.

This is a different topic altogether, if you are buying property to rent out, then at least you are providing accommodation for others. This still creates issues for first time buyers (who need to be buying for the rest of the market to keep moving), but at least that property is being lived in.

Second home owners who leave property empty for such a long time both price people out of the market and create a shortage of housing.

There you may have a point. Empty houses are not the way forward for a vibrant economy. While acknowledging that someone may have worked hard all their life to have a place of their choice they should reside there or pay a penalty.
Having said that, it's usually coastal towns or national parks that bear the brunt of second homes, not places of work. People are entitled to spend their money on whatever they want but as someone who bought a second home in the country I very quickly saw the moral, not to mention practical considerations of leaving a perfectly good house empty for an occasional visit. That's a whole other argument to letting property though.

Over the years I have owned, leased (tenant + LL) property. I don't currently own any property but will in the future. I currently lease my home off a LL who has multiple properties. As such he provides a service to me.

He pays income tax on any net income (i.e. after credit servicing payments). He will also be due CGT on any capital gain (40%). I feel this is a fair level of taxation.

He runs the risk of a capital loss should the market take a downturn and is hence justified in expecting a return for that risk. An abundant private rental market is positive for the economy (job mobility).

I feel that people who hold resentment to those with multiple properties are experiencing jealousy. It is not un-reasonable for people to want to secure a financial future for themselves and their families and property is a valid asset class to do this.

Personaly I don't rate the "it's my pension init" school of property investment as a very good bet at the moment instead choosing a pension wrapper on a diverse portfolio of shares, bonds and commodities.

Those that are envious of multi-owners at the moment may not feel the same in a few years time should the market correct.

I have a second home. If anybody wants it it's now £199,950!Please?!

I think that second home owners are ok, it's the 'weekenders' I dissaprove of. Having an empty property is never socially responsible. Using it for family trips 4 times a year is socially irresponsible.

If you take a small coastal town, lets use Aldeburgh as an example. Most property is owned by weekenders. This has pushed prices up to around the million £ mark. This is because most of these weekenders have their home in Mayfair and surrounding areas. They visit 3 or 4 times a year, normally when the weather is nice.

The local authority would normally divide it's council tax bill by the number of householders, subject to a rating depending on the value of the home. However, if half of those who own properties don't live there, then the bill gets shared amongst less people.

The place becomes a ghost town in the week. It is only right that these people pay the full council tax. If you don't want to pay it, sell your holiday pad and rent like normal people do when on holiday.

damn weekenders!

I don't why the "it's just jealousy" argument is used.

Of course it is - if you can't afford a house and you see others with several .

I'm in the category referred to in the article -two properties aas a result of a relationship.

But we will co-habit soon and I have decided to sell. Everyone - but everyone - suggested that I keep the UK one and rent it.

I have enough to meet my needs without it. Why join this culture of grasping for more, particularly when it deprives someone else?

quote:

Originally posted by BTLOptingOut:
Personaly I don't rate the "it's my pension init" school of property investment as a very good bet at the moment instead choosing a pension wrapper on a diverse portfolio of shares, bonds and commodities.

I don't either.

If you want a pension, buy a pension .

It's easy.

Buy something that doesn't deprive someone else of a chance to own their own home.

I like this bit:

The real problem is that almost every MP with a constituency outside London has two homes or more, and there is scarcely a senior journalist who is not sucking the life out of a village somewhere, or a paper which does not depend on advertising by estate agents.

Especially the papers depending on advertising by estate agents

I think the problem we have had is lending bing too lax but that's starting to correct itself now with interest rates rising globally. Although we haven't followed suit with our base rate yet I don't think it'll be long before we do and meanwhile fixed rate mortgage loans have already started rising.

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Second home owners: are they the most selfish people in Britain?

My LL charges me £1050 mth for a brand new house where the I/O mortgage would be £1000 mth.

Hence I consider him far from one of the most selfish people in Britain!

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Originally posted by queenstomper:
Those who can afford second homes have already been taxed over and over. They should pay 50% council tax. His statement about 'not putting anything into the community' has nothing to do with council tax. We pay that for what we get out of the community don't we? If some places are supposedly ghost towns for most of the year, who sold their homes to out of towners anyway? The young of said villages couldn't have afforded to buy there regardless of whether someone from the city bought a house or not. If it's for sale and you can afford it, then buy it.

I can see a logic in perhaps introducing a second home tax which goes into the housing funds for the area in which your second property is located, but no way should it be 500% of the council tax.

I agree.

Also, don't forget that a lot of "weekenders" consider the home they can only live in at weekends their "real" home and the pokey flat they rent near work for week days their "temporary home". Many said "weekenders" long for the time when they can finally retire to their "real" home and abandon the work pad... if they are taxed to the high heavens for daring to aspire to having a nice home then they will never achieve this.

Ary.

quote:

Originally posted by vbland:

quote:

Originally posted by BTLOptingOut:
Personaly I don't rate the "it's my pension init" school of property investment as a very good bet at the moment instead choosing a pension wrapper on a diverse portfolio of shares, bonds and commodities.

I don't either.

If you want a pension, buy a pension .

Are you serious?

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It's easy.

It might be easy to "buy" a pension, but it isn't easy to invest in one that might give a decent return for the rest of one's life.

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Buy something that doesn't deprive someone else of a chance to own their own home.

What about people who are buying second properties now so that their children and grandchildren might have a chance to own their own properties in the future? Pensions die with the pensioner (or his/her spouse), property doesn't.

If I was in the financial position to do it I'd buy a second home in a heartbeat. I do hope that my mum won't have to sell her house if she has to go into a nursing home because the rent from her house might mean that DH and I won't have to live in the poverty that is the pension system in this country. We are both paying into private pensions, but started so late and can afford so little that it's pretty much a complete waste of money.

I do think that second home owners should pay full council tax. I believe that the discounts were originally offered to encourage people to buy in disadvantaged areas, but now it has become a simple tax break.

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We are both paying into private pensions, but started so late and can afford so little that it's pretty much a complete waste of money.

And therein lies the problem, people do not see the need to start a pension until they are in their late 40's or early 50's, and those that do start when they are younger do not pay nearly enough into the fund.

My friend earns £40000 a year as a self employed plumber, but saves £25 a month into a pension. To have a decent pension he should be saving £300 a month, but it is not a priority so he cannot afford it. He is happy to borrow money at a repayment of £300 a month to buy a new car however!