The other thread devoted to 2.35:1 movies on Film 4 and other channels 9'Films which *should be broadcast at 2.35:1: A List') has now been discontinued, to be revived here in slightly different format. I've dropped the listings for Sky, because - as far as I'm aware - they screen most movies at the correct aspect ratio. And, because this forum doesn't allow editing (once you've posted a hideous mistake, it STAYS posted!!), the whole thread had begun to look a little cluttered. Here, I'd like to continue the listings for Film 4 and other terrestrial broadcasters who REFUSE to broadcast most widescreen films at anything other than a cropped 1.78:1 (and sometimes 1.33:1) ratio. In virtually all cases, this severely compromises the film's artistic and compositional integrity in a manner which is unacceptable in the era of 16:9 TV, and such versions should be avoided at all costs.
By the way, it's two weeks since I wrote directly to Channel 4 asking them to explain why most 2.35:1 movies on Film 4 are now routinely reframed at 1.78:1, in direct contrast to their days as a subscription channel, when most widescreen movies were routinely broadcast at the correct 2.35:1. There may be a response in due course, but I don't appreciate them dragging their heels (after sending the e-mail, they responded by saying they'd get back to me within seven days), and I'm consistently astonished - and insulted - by their ABSOLUTE REFUSAL TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE, ANYWHERE, AT ANY TIME!!
For now, here's next week's list of affected titles, scheduled for broadcast on Film 4 and other terrestrial/Freeview channels. If they aren't shown at the appropriate aspect ratio, AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE!!
As before, all films were originally screened at 2.35:1 (pre-1971) or 2.39:1 (post-1971), unless otherwise noted:
3 - 9 February
Film 4
ANTIBODIES [Antikörper] (Hawk Scope) ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 [1976] (Panavision)
BROTHERHOOD: TAE GUK GI [Taegukgi Hwinalrimyeo] (Super 35)
DOMESTIC DISTURBANCE (J-D-C Scope)
HERO [2002] (Super 35) THE HUSTLER (CinemaScope)
A KNIGHT'S TALE (Super 35)
THE LAND GIRLS (Panavision)
A MAN CALLED PETER (CinemaScope) [2.55:1]
Terrestrial / Freeview
ALEXANDER THE GREAT (CinemaScope) [2.55:1]
THE CHEAP DETECTIVE (Panavision) THE COMPANY (HD Widescreen)
DARKNESS FALLS (Super 35)
EARTHQUAKE (Panavision) THE ENFORCER (Panavision)
THE FOURTH PROTOCOL (J-D-C Scope)
GOOD MORNING, MISS DOVE (CinemaScope) [2.55:1]
THE HI-LO COUNTRY (2.35 Research)
KELLY'S HEROES (Panavision) KLUTE (Panavision) KUNG POW: ENTER THE FIST (Panavision)
THE LONG KISS GOODNIGHT (Super 35)
MANHUNTER (Super 35)
NOTTING HILL (Super 35)
PALE RIDER (Panavision) PT 109 (Panavision)
RETURN OF THE SEVEN (Panavision)
THE SCORPION KING (Super 35) SHANGHAI KNIGHTS (Panavision) THE SLIPPER AND THE ROSE: THE STORY OF CINDERELLA (Panavision) SOMMERSBY (Panavision) STEAL [Riders] (Super 35)
THAT TOUCH OF MINK (Panavision) THE THING (Panavision) A TIME TO KILL (Panavision)
UNBREAKABALE (Panavision)
VIVA MARIA! (Panavision)
THE WEDDING PLANNER (Panavision) WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE [The Rundown] (Super 35)
After three weeks of waiting, it seems Channel 4 has absolutely no intentions of responding to my e-mail concerning the reformatting of 2.39:1 movies on Film 4. And while they still show some films at the correct ratio, it's very much a pick 'n' mix affair - ELECTRA GLIDE IN BLUE but not DOMESTIC DISTURBANCE, BEYOND THE VALLEY OF THE DOLLS but not THE LAND GIRLS, and so on and so forth. Frankly, this state of affairs is baffling and ridiculous.
That said, however, the scope movies scheduled for 3 - 9 February on Film 4 have fared better than expected. At the time of writing, ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13 hasn't been screened yet, though it was screened at 2.39:1 the last time it was broadcast on Film 4, and there's no reason to believe it will be any different this time around. ANTIBODIES, BROTHERHOOD: TAE GUK GI, HERO and THE HUSTLER have all been shown at the correct ratio, which leaves me to wonder why on earth DOMESTIC DISTURBANCE, THE LAND GIRLS and A MAN CALLED PETER were still cropped to 1.78:1...
Here's next week's list. If they aren't framed appropriately, DON'T WATCH!!...
THREE COINS IN THE FOUNTAIN (CinemaScope) [2.55:1]
Terrestrial / Freeview
8mm (Super 35)
ANY GIVEN SUNDAY (Super 35)
BEVERLY HILLS COP II (Super 35) BLACK SUNDAY [1976] (Panavision) BRIGHT YOUNG THINGS (Panavision)
CAMELOT (Panavision) CLEARCUT (Panavision)
THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW (Super 35)
ESCAPE FROM ZAHRAIN (Panavision)
THE GRADUATE (Panavision) GUNS OF THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN (Panavision)
THE HARD WAY (Panavision) HEARTBREAKERS (Panavision)
IT'S ALL ABOUT LOVE (Super 35)
THE MUMMY [1999] (Panavision)
ONCE UPON A TIME IN MEXICO (HD Widescreen)
THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS (Super 35)
SANDS OF THE KALAHARI (Panavision) SCREAM (Clairmont Scope) SEA WIFE (CinemaScope) SEXY BEAST (Super 35) SUMMER HOLIDAY (CinemaScope)
THAT TOUCH OF MINK (Panavision)
VERONICA GUERIN (Super 35) VILLAGE OF THE DAMNED [1995] (Panavision)
* A LIFE LESS ORDINARY was shot in Super 35 but - for reasons known only to the filmmakers - was released theatrically framed at 1.85:1. However, all widescreen home video versions are framed at the intended 2.39:1 ratio. No doubt Film 4 will opt for the former...
I made a boob in the 3 - 9 February listing (yes, another one!). I forgot to add the 2001 film CRUSH (Panavision) to the list, and it was screened on Film 4 last night (7 February) at the correct 2.39:1 ratio. Apologies for missing that one - consider my knuckles thoroughly rapped. Still, I seem to have gotten everything else right for that particular listing (he said, hopefully)...
Of the films mentioned in the 3 - 9 February listing, the following were screened at the correct ratio on Film 4: ANTIBODIES, ASSAULT ON PRECINCT 13, BROTHERHOOD: TAE GUK GI, HERO and THE HUSTLER.
Those cropped to 1.78:1 for no particular reason were: DOMESTIC DISTURBANCE, A KNIGHT'S TALE, THE LAND GIRLS and A MAN CALLED PETER.
All the titles listed for Terrestrial/Freeview were cropped, as usual.
Well I'm another film fan who enjoys viewing the film as originally made and shot. I applaud Sky (in particular Sky Cinema- a favourite of mine) for showing films in the correct ratio. I guess Libretio you are still awaiting a response? Until we understand the reasons for the decision to screen films at a cropped ratio we can't really turn ourselves to a solution. For instance, if FilmFour is saying that viewers don't like those horrible black bars at the top and bottom of the screen (not sure this is true nowadays with 16:9 TVs and because of the more discerning viewer that FilmFour does attract), why not alternate screenings? You could have a cropped screening one time and a correct ratio showing another-FilmFour would just have to advertise which is which, so the more discerning viewer can choose the correct ratio version. However, as I say, until we understand what the difficulty is in showing a film at say 2.35:1 (as Sky manages quite easily), we can't really address ourselves to a solution!
For instance, if FilmFour is saying that viewers don't like those horrible black bars at the top and bottom of the screen... why not alternate screenings? You could have a cropped screening one time and a correct ratio showing another
I said the same thing many times on the original thread devoted to this issue, but since Film 4 won't address the subject under any circumstances - not here on this forum, nor in private e-mail (yep, I'm still awaiting a response!) - it's impossible to gauge their reasoning on a film by film basis. To be fair, however, they're screening a lot more movies in their original ratio these days, but the current pick 'n' mix policy (BRAVEHEART at 2.39 but not WE WERE SOLDIERS, HERO at 2.39 but not CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON, etc.) is frankly baffling and unnecessary.
The only recourse is to make people aware of the widescreen films being shown on the various channels, so they know in advance what kind of ratio they should expect. And if those movies are cropped, the only recourse - in most cases - is to watch the DVD instead.
Could anyone possibly confirm which version of A LIFE LESS ORDINARY was broadcast by Film 4 last night - cropped 1.78 or full 2.35? I missed it completely, and I'd like to include the title in my end-of-week report for those films shown at the correct ratio and those that weren't. Many thanks in advance!
Film 4 let the side down last week (10 - 16 Feb) with a paltry selection of OAR widescreen movies. Those which were screened correctly were THE APARTMENT, ELECTRA GLIDE IN BLUE and ONE NITE IN MONGKOK.
Cropped offerings were BATTLE OF BRITAIN, CATTLE EMPIRE (cropped to 1.33:1 from 2.35:1 - should not have been screened in this state on a dedicated movie channel), CHANGING LANES, A KNIGHT'S TALE, THE SUM OF ALL FEARS and THREE COINS IN THE FOUNTAIN. Pathetic.
I'm assuming A LIFE LESS ORDINARY was also cropped, though I could be wrong about that.
Next week's potential widescreen casualties. If they aren't framed correctly, AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE:
24 February - 2 March
Film 4
CARMEN JONES (CinemaScope) [2.55:1]
DEATH DRUMS ALONG THE RIVER (Techniscope) THE DEER HUNTER (Panavision)
ELECTRA GLIDE IN BLUE (Panavision)
A FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE [Giù la Testa] (Techniscope) FORREST GUMP (Panavision)
THE HARD WORD (Super 35)
THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN (Panavision)
MEMOIRS OF AN INVISIBLE MAN (Panavision)
PRINCE VALIANT (CinemaScope) [2.55:1]
STRANGE DAYS (Super 35)
THERE'S NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS (CinemaScope) [2.55:1] THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO (Techniscope)
THE VIKINGS (Technirama)
Terrestrial / Freeview
ANACONDA (Super 35)
BRIDGET JONES'S DIARY (Super 35)
THE DEVIL'S OWN (Panavision)
ENEMY AT THE GATES (Super 35) ESCAPE TO ATHENA (Panavision)
HALLOWEEN H20: 20 YEARS LATER (Super 35) HOWARDS END (Super 35)
IDENTITY (Panavision)
KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND TABLE (CinemaScope) [2.55:1]
THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS [1992] (Panavision) LOST HIGHWAY (Panavision)
THE ONE (Super 35)
THE PINK PANTHER (Technirama) POINT BREAK (Super 35)
SCREAM 2 (Panavision)
THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR (Panavision)*
THE WAY WE WERE (Panavision) THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF THE BROTHERS GRIMM (Cinerama) [2.59:1]
* Not only is Five screening a cropped 1.33:1 version of THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR, it's also screening this 15 certificate film on a Saturday afternoon with multiple cuts for violence and language. This is the second time they've done this, to my knowledge (it may be a third or fourth), and they ought to be held to account for such practices. Pity the poor so-and-so who stumbles on this version and thinks they're seeing the 'real thing'...
This information is invaluable, but I do also think we have to cut Film Four some slack here and be careful not to alienate them with too much protest, given the concessions they seem to have made of late for late-night screenings.
I too was very surprised by the full-framing of Cattle Empire, as Fox Cinemascope movies tend to get shown at 16:9.
However, it doesn't look as if this film has been made available on DVD in the US. That being the case, Fox's television masters for this title are going to be full-frame (apart from credits), as they are obviously not going to bother restoring and remastering a title that is not going to bring in revenue from DVD sales.
I think Film Four has had to make do with what it's got and probably had no choice but to take this version of Cattle Empire in a package deal with Fox. There was probably a few other full-frame nasties in the package that they may shun, but obviously they would screen a title like Cattle Empire in any old format as Western action is a genre guaranteed to pull in viewers.
TV has long stopped broadcasting from film and so every film we see is the version as it has been sold to them, except in the case of movies wider than 16:9, for which they obviously still have the technology to 'zoom in' on. Cattle Empire was screen in the mid-90s by Channel 4 in a 16:9 print, which would have been subsidised by the EMF, but their rights to that version will have long expired (I think screening rights used to last about 7 years?)
Many thanks for the confirmation re: A LIFE LESS ORDINARY, ClientFan - much appreciated.
Your comments about CATTLE EMPIRE were well taken, too. It's true, Film 4 have been screening more and more widescreen films at the correct ratio of late, and I'm more than happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. But my basic complaint is twofold:
1. They ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to address this issue, anywhere. This thread (and its earlier incarnation) has been on these forums for months, and not one of the editors has made any comment whatsoever. Ask them about a film you've missed and they'll be happy to let you know when it's going to be repeated. Enquire about a song on one of the trailers, and they'll be sure to track down the title and report back. Ask them why some films are shown at 2.35:1 and others are cropped to 1.78, and... silence. I'd like to think these forums provided some form of interaction between viewers and the Powers-That-Be at Film 4, but ask them about an issue of substance and nothing happens. I sent an e-mail directly to Channel 4 about a month ago, asking them to clarify their policy for scope movies on Film 4, and despite being promised a response "within a week", I'm still awaiting an answer.
2. The arbitrary nature of what gets shown at 2.35 and what gets cropped to 1.78/1.33 is infuriating. If Film 4 would only just engage with viewers on this issue (here in this forum, or in private e-mail) and explain why such-and-such was 2.35 and such-and-such was 1.78, it would go a long way toward mitigating any frustration. Most of the films they show are available at the correct ratio on DVD, so 2.35:1 masters will also be available from the rights holders. And, as I understand it, they went out of their way to show everything at the correct ratio before they became a free-to-air channel.
I am grateful for the recent number of 2.35:1 screenings - Film 4 is one of the few terrestrial/Freeview channels which does this on a regular basis. I welcome those broadcasts, but their continued silence on this issue - and failure to explain why some films are shown correctly and others are cropped - makes it necessary to continue asking questions.
Anyway, I'll conclude this crazed rant here, before I get too carried away with my own self-importance . I'm glad you find these weekly listings useful. The more people know which films should be 2.35:1, the more they can act appropriately if/when broadcasters mutilate them (via cropping) for whatever reason.
I can well understand the 'no response' frustrations. I had the same experience myself some months ago when attempting to make enquiries about the scheduling process for film matinees on terrestrial TV, at a time when screening of anything other than British War films on C4 seemed to have completely dried up. Although I never received a reply, I have since noticed a gradual increase in the volume and variety of major studio back catalogue output, and have sent them positive feedback on the screening of several titles.
An encouraging sign that no news may be good news? It's a bit wide of the mark of me I know to suggest my actions may single-handedly have had any influence over policy, but I am hopeful in the principle that the more we thank C4 when they get it right, the more they may listen and gradually move towards OAR as standard... even if they won't interact with us while doing so
I appreciate that they are between a rock and a hard place now in having had to go free-to-air (no doubt an economic necessity), and so in terms of output and format have to strike a balance between pleasing us purists, and keeping their paying advertisers happy by pulling in as many viewers as possible; and I believe they are trying to compromise as tentatively as a commercial enterprise can afford to.
That being said, I can't for the life of me understand why, with the 1hr+ timeshift at their disposal, they can't use it as an OAR channel. It would hardly cost much to inaugurate and make the public aware.
I may be wrong but I think distributors supply OAR DVD-prepared remasters to TV as standard, as it is presumably more cost-effective than preparing separate 16:9 versions; but that the technology is available to broadcasters to 'zoom' to 16:9 at the point of transmission. (Hasn't there been a couple of cases recently where titles that had been showing at 16:9 subsequently went OAR on the next screening?) C4 and BBC2 were something of a 'pioneer' of 16:9 broadcasting back in the mid 90s, but back then they were able to request new prints as the money was available from the EMF to subsidise it, and so the distributors would have been happy to supply on demand as they were getting their asking price.
This is what I think the anomoly was with Cattle Empire. If you think about Sky Cinema for example, they have a large repertoire of Fox movies which are shown OAR, but then given the Fox-Murdoch connection they probably are only paying nominal rights fees, and so are not particularly bothered about viewers potentially being put off by OAR because the subscriptions will keep rolling in for their other channels and services. C4 obviously doesn't have the same freedom as they have to pay for the rights and keep attracting viewers; many of whom will be undiscerning, not cine-literate, and so would be put off by OAR and switch off; something the channel literally can't afford to do now.
Hopefully they are monitoring the results of their recent late-night 'honeymoon period', and if all goes well we may see a gradual shift towards complete OAR (where available). In the meantime, people still have this resource to know what they should expect to see when they sit down to watch a film, and then act accordingly if their expectations are not fulfilled.
ClientFan, I'll respond to your posting in due course (not that there's much else to say, except that we're both basically in accord! ).
Another middling week on Film 4 (17 - 23 February). Widescreen films screened at the correct ratio were as follows:
BLOW OUT BROTHERHOOD: TAE GUK GI THE DEER HUNTER ONE NITE IN MONGKOK STRANGE DAYS THE SUGARLAND EXPRESS
Those cropped to other ratios (mostly 1.78):
BATTLE OF BRITAIN CATTLE EMPIRE THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN MEMOIRS OF AN INVISIBLE MAN PRINCE VALIANT THE SUM OF ALL FEARS THERE'S NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS THREE COINS IN THE FOUNTAIN THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO THE YARDS
I am hopeful in the principle that the more we thank C4 when they get it right, the more they may listen and gradually move towards OAR as standard... even if they won't interact with us while doing so.
I agree it's advisable to let C4 know when they've done something right, and I've taken to posting a list of films every Saturday for those widescreen movies which were screened correctly the previous week, along with those that weren't. Not quite fulsome praise, but an acknowledgement all the same. Still, one has to wonder why this forum exists if C4 won't use it to interact with viewers in a meaningful way.
I appreciate that they are between a rock and a hard place now in having had to go free-to-air (no doubt an economic necessity), and so in terms of output and format have to strike a balance between pleasing us purists, and keeping their paying advertisers happy by pulling in as many viewers as possible; and I believe they are trying to compromise as tentatively as a commercial enterprise can afford to.
What I can't understand is why they can't simply say as much, here on this forum or anywhere else. Their ongoing silence simply fosters suspicion and disappointment, every time they screen a compromised version of a given film.
That being said, I can't for the life of me understand why, with the 1hr+ timeshift at their disposal, they can't use it as an OAR channel. It would hardly cost much to inaugurate and make the public aware.
This was another proposal I put forward in the previous thread devoted to this issue, but it was met with the usual silence.
I may be wrong but I think distributors supply OAR DVD-prepared remasters to TV as standard, as it is presumably more cost-effective than preparing separate 16:9 versions; but that the technology is available to broadcasters to 'zoom' to 16:9 at the point of transmission.
As I understand it, multiple versions of individual films are prepared by the rights holders for international distribution on home video and TV. For films originally framed at 2.35:1, separate 1.78 and 1.33 versions will be prepared for different markets, in PAL, NTSC and SECAM (alongside a definitive letterboxed 2.35 version, of course). In the case of Super 35 films (in which a 1.33:1 negative is created, with all essential imagery retained within a 2.35:1 portion of the frame), I've noticed UK broadcasters tend to use a 2.35:1 print and simply zoom-in to create a 1.78 version, as you suggest.
(Hasn't there been a couple of cases recently where titles that had been showing at 16:9 subsequently went OAR on the next screening?)
Film 4 has done this on a number of occasions: Following the switch from subscription to free-to-air, GO and THE HITCHER both premiered late night at 2.35:1, then were repeated shortly afterward (in slightly earlier time-slots) at 1.78. I'm pretty sure CLEOPATRA was screened at 1.78 before switching to 2.35. I'm not the only one to suggest Film 4 should alternate between 2.35 and 1.78 versions of the relevant films, to keep everyone happy, but there's been no response to that suggestion, either.
C4 obviously doesn't have the same freedom as they have to pay for the rights and keep attracting viewers; many of whom will be undiscerning, not cine-literate, and so would be put off by OAR and switch off; something the channel literally can't afford to do now. Hopefully they are monitoring the results of their recent late-night 'honeymoon period', and if all goes well we may see a gradual shift towards complete OAR (where available).
It's true that most of the letterboxed films have been shown late-night, but that isn't always the case. Maybe BRAVEHEART, THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS and THE USUAL SUSPECTS were 'experiments', to test the waters of what viewers found acceptable, but they were all screened at 9pm. I'd like to know the results of those experiments (if that's what they were). And if they were negative, there's still the option of alternating between 1.78 and 2.35 versions of such movies.
In the meantime, people still have this resource to know what they should expect to see when they sit down to watch a film, and then act accordingly if their expectations are not fulfilled.
Another bumper crop of potential widescreen casualties, most of which have been shown M-A-N-Y times before in cropped variations. Can we have the 'real' versions this time round, please?...
3 - 9 March
Film 4
ALONG CAME A SPIDER (Panavision)
BATS (Clairmont Scope)
DEATH DRUMS ALONG THE RIVER (Techniscope)
FORREST GUMP (Panavision)
GHOSTS OF MARS (Panavision) THE GIRL CAN'T HELP IT (CinemaScope) [2.55:1]
A MAN CALLED PETER (CinemaScope) [2.55:1] MASTER AND COMMANDER: THE FAR SIDE OF THE WORLD (Super 35)
OUT OF TIME [2003] (Super 35)
ROUNDERS (Super 35)
THE SPANISH GARDENER (VistaVision) [1.85:1] SPEED (Panavision) THE STRAIGHT STORY (Panavision)
Don't know how I missed this one, but you can add I, ROBOT (Super 35) to the 3 - 9 March listing (Terrestrial / Freeview), as it's being premiered on Channel 4. Doubtless cropped to 1.78...
. I'm glad you find these weekly listings useful. The more people know which films should be 2.35:1, the more they can act appropriately if/when broadcasters mutilate them (via cropping) for whatever reason.
).