No not communism - that evil dictatorship model where the wishes of the masses were trampled on and ignored - but a real system of commune scaled up to cover all of humanity.
Where money and "growth" are irrelevent, where the ethos is support and lending your skills so that others can lend to you. Where leaders are the elected wisest amongst us. Where competition is inefficient and wasteful of resource. Where everything is considered and used to its full potential and where thought is given to the future and not just to the present.
When the oil runs out and commodities are wasted will we rue a missed chance to kill off the market economy which drives unsustainable consumption, unsustainable growth, polarised wealth and out of control population?
The thoughts of Chairman Al.
If a man takes no thought about what is distant, he will find sorrow near at hand.
population control will become the burning issue in the 21st century.
Market economies and growth are threatened by the prospect of population reduction e.g. the African economy is threatened by AIDS.
In order to survive the free market needs to continually grow i.e. continual population growth - demand, and unlimited resources.
Nobody has considered that the market economy must eventually collapse, because nobody has considered that we will ever run out of the resources that sustain it.
Isn't it time we abandoned the free market and growth and found a new sustainable model?
The thoughts of Chairman Al.
If a man takes no thought about what is distant, he will find sorrow near at hand.
How long will it take for recognition of the inevitable to take place?
This has been recognised already Al…stress less…it’s better for your heart!
The momentum of consumerism is such that it will take quite a while yet for it to slow sufficiently for young people to make better informed choices and or engender an environment conducive to sustainability and equality…
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When will we be forced to revert back to a local communities and self sufficient local economies?
Good question…but what is most pertinent for this to happen?
For me this is not about dividing the world up again…it’s not about redistribution of the wooden dollars of “wealth” and or management of physical resources nor the discovery of new ones…it’s about mental development and humanity gaining emotional stability which will thus engender more satisfied individuals better equipped to live more satisfied and uncluttered lives because we invest more time into each other and simple pleasures instead of blindly chasing the empty promises of advertising campaigns.
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Nobody has considered that the market economy must eventually collapse, because nobody has considered that we will ever run out of the resources that sustain it.
Wrong! Everybody has considered it…and because human conscience is still so young and “self” orientated we all want to grab as much as we can here and now instead of learning that liberation lies in letting go not hanging on.
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it will require a huge culture shift.
INNIT Bruv!!!
This culture must indeed be a global culture of conscience where concepts like “local communities” are recognised as divisive terms…if humanity is to have any longevity at all it must recognise that we and the relationships we have with our “self” is the most important “commodity”.
Happy balanced individuals do not knowingly consume more than is required but most importantly are individuals who can easily change their patterns of behaviour if so required. The system still favours the greedy and rich at present but the more emotionally balanced humanity becomes the easier it will be to weed out those individuals who deliberately lie, cheat and live in greed…
We must become the change we want to see in the world
Why are politicians still pushing the notion that growth and the market economy will improve 3rd world nations?
They are still advocating a form of self destruction.
We need to start thinking about how we only produce the things we really need - which means we can no longer afford to have companies producing goods and competition.
The thoughts of Chairman Al.
If a man takes no thought about what is distant, he will find sorrow near at hand.
Why are politicians still pushing the notion that growth and the market economy will improve 3rd world nations? They are still advocating a form of self destruction.
My suggestion is often a contentious one when offered but to me the answer to your question is quite simply this – politicians are in the business of giving “us” what “we” want.
There is also an element here of an old dog (elected democracy) not being able to learn any new tricks because its hands are tied in many respects…the old dog is capable of learning new tricks but as with any form of democracy a majority rules and so if the majority of the populous want to self destruct (consume) the government must provide the policies which that populous want or else they simply do not get elected…
It comes back to my original suggestion that “we” as in the majority i.e. the “collective conscience” are still very young, needy brats. We all want 10 bedroom 10 bathroom houses, 50” TVs, cars that are capable of ridiculous neck breaking speeds, super king size beds, 10 pairs of jeans, 12 pairs of shoes and flavoured water... not because it is in fact either right or wrong to have these things but purely because in today’s world - we can!
Humanity is currently stuck in a vortex of emotional bankruptcy because of the alarming rate at which our knowledge of physicality has outstripped our attention to conscience and other equally integral non-physical aspects of our reality.
The hard part to rationalise is this…the 3rd world is a closer representation of the ideals you describe in your original posts (commune-ism)…so does this mean we have gone backwards by becoming civilised…? Hard core lefties who never shower, cut their hair and nails and smell like a septic tank like to believe this is true but it is not…they merely epitomise the emotional instability that human conscience sorely needs to achieve in order to become stable and thus able to live within it’s means…
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We need to start thinking about how we only produce the things we really need - which means we can no longer afford to have companies producing goods and competition.
I couldn’t agree with this more…but…what are the mechanics of this actually moving forward?
The moment this suggestion is uttered in today’s environment it is shot down before it can even get moving because of the factors I have already suggested…
People who are immature generally fear change because they battle to think beyond their own existence and are not emotionally stable enough to accept that changing and reaching this future requires personal sacrifice…so…how do we engender emotional stability…how do we engender a more collective and cohesive existence within humanity when the nature of the realisation is such that it must almost certainly be self taught…?
These are complex issues to address and again my suggestion is usually hugely contentious but I honestly believe the answer as in any situation of liberation is to engender total freedom…lets legalise drugs, drop all speed limits on the roads, allow people to walk around stark raving naked if that is what they choose…you see to me having these mental frameworks of control in place make it harder to accept our mortality and the prerequisite to self regulate because all these things will and do happen every day quite regardless of the law of the land…
What it boils down to is that we all self regulate all day every day quite regardless of what we think…and the key to a more cohesive population is thus locked away within each and every individual…
We must become the change we want to see in the world
Can no one see the truth of the situation: That irrespective of what mankind thinks he can do to control or improve or destroy himself and his environment, he can do nothing without God's permission.
What time is it, Mr Woolf? Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
The real problem is related to our inability to embrace democracy. We have no real democracies or anything that comes close.
Self interest is inevitably put before collective interest which means that democracies are corrupted from the time of establishment and never recover.
Real democracies would deliver real leadership, the cream of society have qualities that are beyond the capabilities of our current short sighted and self grandising political elite.
We need a new system which has the capability of adaptation because a close examination of history will surely confirm that the phrase 'adapt or die' is the only message that matters.
The thoughts of Chairman Al.
If a man takes no thought about what is distant, he will find sorrow near at hand.
Originally posted by Chairman Al: The real problem is related to our inability to embrace democracy. We have no real democracies or anything that comes close.
Self interest is inevitably put before collective interest which means that democracies are corrupted from the time of establishment and never recover.
Real democracies would deliver real leadership, the cream of society have qualities that are beyond the capabilities of our current short sighted and self grandising political elite.
We need a new system which has the capability of adaptation because a close examination of history will surely confirm that the phrase 'adapt or die' is the only message that matters.
I really do believe that there will be such a time, in the very near future: Furthermore, I believe that I know the true identity of this "leader" which you refer to.
What time is it, Mr Woolf? Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
I really do believe that there will be such a time, in the very near future: Furthermore, I believe that I know the true identity of this "leader" which you refer to.
there is no air bag to save us from the crash, we have to do it ourselves.
The thoughts of Chairman Al.
If a man takes no thought about what is distant, he will find sorrow near at hand.
The real problem is related to our inability to embrace democracy. We have no real democracies or anything that comes close. Self interest is inevitably put before collective interest which means that democracies are corrupted from the time of establishment and never recover.
I disagree…
I believe that human beings are “kind” and “good” by nature…or at least we will choose “kindness” and “goodness” at every junction given the choice…why else would we have evolved with conscience…merely so that we can pity and regret some of our choices but not others? No…
Do you, or do you not accept that conscience is a built in mechanism of human existence that has evolved within us just as relevantly as opposable thumbs and 26 vertebrae that fit together to form our spinal column?
Conscience is an evolutionary asset and we must grow up and recognise this…the reality that “right” choices are usually the hardest ones to make is a good thing - it is a built in fail safe mechanism precisely designed to engender growth and development of character…to progress the species...
Here’s some food for thought…how is it that we might have an “inability to embrace democracy” as you suggest when we created the entire concept and its premise? How is that we can or would be inadequate in any way at all within the bounds of our knowledge?
Many if not all of our problems relating to being able to live for and with the collective as the primary focus of our minds is based in a poor and infantile understanding of self. We find it increasingly difficult to make the “right” choices today not because we are inherently selfish or “bad” but because we do not have a properly developed understanding of self…i.e…
There is absolutely no reason what so ever to believe that this evolved understanding of a collective and cohesive conscience is not achievable in the world when we are sitting here quite easily discussing it? The only reason we have not attained this level of understanding and living in real terms is because we have been so deeply engrossed in the physical aspect of our reality for most if not all of our history thus far and largely neglected the elephant in the room which is our emotional wellbeing…i.e. a balanced conscience…
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Real democracies would deliver real leadership, the cream of society have qualities that are beyond the capabilities of our current short sighted and self grandising political elite.
Real democracies have no cream of society and we elect the politicians - so we must accept some role in their incapabilities. You can’t point fingers in a collective society Al…you are falling at the first hurdle…
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We need a new system which has the capability of adaptation because a close examination of history will surely confirm that the phrase 'adapt or die' is the only message that matters.
Firstly…whether we like it or not the current physical form of the universe and that of the human race itself will eventually disappear. We already “know” that the physical realm in a one of impermanence…it is precisely this impermanent nature which makes it adaptable…but whether or not it matters that things adapt is a new discussion entirely because the kind of adaption we are the discussing is more likely than not going to be a transcendental adaption…but we are now slightly off topic…
Bottom line to this discussion is this…IMO…
Individuals make their own choices…we can choose to live cohesively or not and the more emotionally balanced we become as individuals the easier it becomes to make the “right” decisions to live this way because we accept full responsibility for our own life. Emotionally imbalanced individuals prefer to blame others for the wrongs in the world and in their life and operate from a mental framework of apathy born of a poor understanding of self.
There are two evolutionary forces at play here that relate to self preservation but both come from different directions.
Force 1. We see the need to store and collect as a mechanism for self preservation. This trait manifests itself in greed and an addiction to consumption at the expense of others.
Force 2. We see the benefit of cooperation, protection in numbers. This trait leads to a desire for community.
Which force will win out?
The thoughts of Chairman Al.
If a man takes no thought about what is distant, he will find sorrow near at hand.
We all want 10 bedroom 10 bathroom houses, 50” TVs, cars that are capable of ridiculous neck breaking speeds, super king size beds, 10 pairs of jeans, 12 pairs of shoes
I agree with you. It's a terrible thing. Except for the shoes though. Only 12 is too hard. How do I decide which ones are surplus? As for the jeans, I don't count the flares cos they might not come back into fashion.
The thoughts of Chairman Al and Durrie are certainly food for thought but the concept of self-regulation and freedom to do as we wish is an unrealistic ideology. Humans like all other animals have an inbuilt mechanism to survive which naturally makes us selfish. We strive to do all we can to have the things we need to be fed, warm and happy; only then can people step out of their selfish thoughts and turn their attention to the needs of others. How many people in Britain live a comfortable, safe, and happy life? Would you expect poor people to self regulate themselves in a good and descent manner when their home is a one bedroom flat with three children in one room, no central heating and a shortage of food; whilst the man down the street lives in a 6 bedroom house with one child and is financially secure. If you want a balanced society then the redistribution of wealth has to come first. Why do you think we have laws and governments in the first place, to protect the rich from the poor. People who are poor see the injustuce of it all whilst people who are wealthy sit back on their laurels and pontificate about what society should be like.
Hi Ningangnong…thanks for joining the conversation and sharing your thoughts…
The civilisation of terrestrial mankind is \ was never going to emancipate us from the basic need for food, water, shelter and to reproduce - there is no logical correlation to your suggestion what so ever between physical necessity and an individual person operating from a selfishness disposition which at every junction is a mental \ subjective choice…I agree that we as mammals have “inbuilt mechanisms to survive” but physical circumstances do not define mental concepts and we are no longer apes in the jungle…
You have not taken my suggestions about the evolution of conscience on board…because conscience is precisely the stuff that needs to temper our decisions if wealth is to be redistributed evenly…
Civilisation is about the emergence of conscience it’s not about wearing expensive clothes or building ever more complex buildings and machines...it’s not about the inherently divisive nature of objective thinking it’s about constructing complex mental frameworks designed to engender a better quality of life not regardless but with our physical circumstance to create a better life as a whole…
Self regulation is the pivot upon which these mental frameworks stand up or fall down…rich people feeling better and more important than they are and poor people feeling sorry for themselves is an emotional instability that exist vicariously through their twisted and divisive minds than in any real sense…objectively or otherwise…
Collective conscience is the only doorway through which objectivity and subjectivity combine to create a real cohesive future…
we are still apes, albeit with a few extra faculties and our jungle is the world.
"civilisation is about the emergence of conscience"
when did conscience emerge? - I bet it was at a time when you might consider us still to be savages. I sometimes think that highland gorilla families are more civilised and respectful of each other than the humans crowding into london underground. The Gorillas have an amazingly civilised conscious. Everything is relative in any case - we have to decide what our ideals are, determine what it takes to get there and what it takes to remain there.
The thoughts of Chairman Al.
If a man takes no thought about what is distant, he will find sorrow near at hand.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by durrie: Self regulation is the pivot upon which these mental frameworks stand up or fall down…rich people feeling better and more important than they are and poor people feeling sorry for themselves is an emotional instability that exist vicariously through their twisted and divisive minds than in any real sense…objectively or otherwise…
Collective conscience is the only doorway through which objectivity and subjectivity combine to create a real cohesive future…
Are you really suggesting that people who are poor are in that position because of a state of mind? Some people are born into families who are financially stable and as I already suggested this allows them to focus more on the broader picture of their place in society. Whilst families who do not have financial stability do all they can do on a day to day basis to survive. Such a condition will inevitably make them focus on the self. Having no money is not always due to emotional instability. Yes, some people may be incapable of pulling themselves out of poverty due to a state of mind, but equally some may have a positive state of mind but find that at every turn in their quest for financial stability the doors are constantly closed due to lack of skills or education. Not everyone in this world is able to articulate themselves as well as yourself. How do you propose such a collective conscience could occur between the poor and the rich?
we have to decide what our ideals are, determine what it takes to get there and what it takes to remain there.
Exactly Al…it’s up to us…it’s our choice at every junction which is why I keep saying self regulation is the key and why emotional stability is the doorway we must enter this future through because the more emotionally stable we are the less likely we are to moan, point fingers or wallow in apathy and the more likely we are to get on with the job and assist each other along the way…
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Ningnangnong:
Are you really suggesting that people who are poor are in that position because of a state of mind?
No…you misunderstand…all I’m suggesting is that “poorness” or “richness” is a mental framework which at the end of the day can be applied to anything we like through choice…in this respect the reality of “wealth” is down to us and us alone to create…
There is however a case that can be made in the current climate for the attitude of an individual directly affecting their wealth…e.g. the lower classes spend \ waste a much higher percentage of their income on drink and cigarettes etc…
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Ningnangnong:
Some people are born into families who are financially stable and as I already suggested this allows them to focus more on the broader picture of their place in society. Whilst families who do not have financial stability do all they can do on a day to day basis to survive. Such a condition will inevitably make them focus on the self
Are you suggesting that “poor” people are more selfish than rich? Are you suggesting that “poor” people have some sort of “right” to be selfish or are naturally selfish…course not…you feel empathy for these people like any kind person would - we cannot choose which family we are born into but we can choose what we do with our lives…the more emotionally stable “rich” individuals are the more likely they are to share their wealth and the more emotionally stable “poor” people are the less likely that are to wallow in self pity and not take any initiative…
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Ningnangnong:
Having no money is not always due to emotional instability. Yes, some people may be incapable of pulling themselves out of poverty due to a state of mind, but equally some may have a positive state of mind but find that at every turn in their quest for financial stability the doors are constantly closed due to lack of skills or education.
I agree…but only because of the system we have erected and maintain through choice…we have the power to change this…it will take time, effort and mountains of self sacrifice ergo emotional stability is the key.
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Ningnangnong:
Not everyone in this world is able to articulate themselves as well as yourself. How do you propose such a collective conscience could occur between the poor and the rich?
Words are cheap Ningnangnong…I’m a born and bred African and have lived and worked with some extreamly poor people. Besides being some of the happiest people I have ever met and befriended there is nothing we need to learn in order to get on with other people…people are people…all that needs to happen is that we align our outlook on the necessities of life…as Chairman Al says…we have to decide what our ideals are, determine what it takes to get there and what it takes to remain there…
In other words when we are all pulling in the same direction there is no reason what so ever to believe there will be unrest and anxieties amongst individuals of that society…
Originally posted by Mr Woolf: Can no one see the truth of the situation: That irrespective of what mankind thinks he can do to control or improve or destroy himself and his environment, he can do nothing without God's permission.
lets leave religion outta this shall we... polotics and religion should NEVER mix... anyway... chairman Al, you see all these things you suggest and propose are brilliant and informed and somewhat reveloutionary way to think, however!... theres always a however... we free thinking, are the minority. if the medias would allow free thinking in the majority and question things that dont quite fit, they would lose all their money, power and control over westernised worlds. the media feeds the ignorant happy masses, unachieveable goals and their idea of a working society is pushed at every given moment. this unknowingly locks you in a consumerist state of mind very hard to break out from. this is the first issue that must be made aware of or dealt with... but also the hardest... you can't swich off peoples tellys and tell them its for their own good, even if that is the case! what you can do is be sincere and concerned with every person you ever meet, share your information with people but dont push it... the battle really is not against an injust society, but on a personal level, find your own peace and others will follow your example. its gonna be a slow painfull process, fixing this world, but im willing to put all my efforts into it.
The only true knowlege, is knowing, you know nothing...
Yes Encypher the problem is our collective state of mind. We become accustomed to certain things and we find it very hard to imagine that there may be a better way. We become reliant on our income and we are adverse to taking any risks that may affect it. We can only hope for incremental change but I fear that it may come too late. Your suggestion about finding your own peace is as much as you can hope for but ultimately futile as others will inevitably impinge on your road to karma.
The thoughts of Chairman Al.
If a man takes no thought about what is distant, he will find sorrow near at hand.
