quote:

Originally posted by smokeAndMirrors:
In the light of the fact that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are mutually in disagreement, and that the believers of each cult assume the correctness of their scripture and therefore the incorrectness of the others (Jesus either was or was not the messiah, for instance), there is an awful lot of lying going on somewhere in the world. Therefore many of the negative consequences of religion are indeed tied up with lies (of course I believe it's all a lie, but for a believer it is simply a question of scale). In what way could you justify the negative effects of those lies were "better than secularity"?

This is a truth that everyone can understand and is also the point at which followers of organised religions desperately try to change the subject or slink off to another thread.

quote:

Originally posted by ballyboneman:

Except of course study after study has shown that religious observants are less likely to exhibit violent behaviour both inside and outside of personal relationships; are less prone to substance abuse including tobacco and alchohol; are less likely to suffer mental illness or stress; are less likely to suffer from STDs and are more likely to be generous with their money and their time.

These studies are very interesting. The problem is that they only exist inside your head. Otherwise they are great.

regards

Jeez there Little Kundera Cobber abitov litoš could help yer unbearable lightness ov bein’ unless ov course yer life’s elsewhere then the only answer’s the book ov laughter’n’fergettin’ always assumin' azow yercan see the joke'n'yerdon't poop the farewell party!

quote:

Originally posted by Milan K:

quote:

Originally posted by ballyboneman:

Except of course study after study has shown that religious observants are less likely to exhibit violent behaviour both inside and outside of personal relationships; are less prone to substance abuse including tobacco and alchohol; are less likely to suffer mental illness or stress; are less likely to suffer from STDs and are more likely to be generous with their money and their time.

These studies are very interesting. The problem is that they only exist inside your head. Otherwise they are great.

regards

Enlighten yourself, look at the evidence before resorting to pointless insults.

Few would deny that religious belief acts like some stupefying addictive drug. Like all drugs, there are side-effects. Like all drug users, the religious are too stoned to see them or to care even if they can. And somehow, they manage to conflate being off their head on some ego-inflating lie with "it must be true"

Note: male patients have a better recovery rate when the nurses are beautiful and scantily-clad. What makes people feel better isn't necessarily even moral.

quote:

Originally posted by smokeAndMirrors:

In the light of the fact that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are mutually in disagreement, and that the believers of each cult assume the correctness of their scripture and therefore the incorrectness of the others (Jesus either was or was not the messiah, for instance), there is an awful lot of lying going on somewhere in the world. Therefore many of the negative consequences of religion are indeed tied up with lies (of course I believe it's all a lie, but for a believer it is simply a question of scale). In what way could you justify the negative effects of those lies were "better than secularity"?

Methinks it is far worse than you imagine. Even within the various sects of each of these religions the other sects are essentially seen and classed as heretics. Nowadays the sect hierarchies and devotees may not wish to argue so or use the term often but when one looks at the differences in their creeds then to each other they are heretical. And we all know what the punishment decreed for heretics is, don't we?

quote:

Originally posted by Sheik Yahbouti:
However, whilst sharing the disappointment of all would be Christians, I would side with ballyboneman on this point only; the failure and corruption of the human beings who have formed the chuch over the centuries cannot and do not negate the beauty of the original message of Christ in so far as we can be sure that some, at least, of the writings came from him.

How can you be "sure" that he ever uttered any word ascribed to him in the bible. The book is full of errors and mistakes. The NT quotes Jesus as making a fair few statements which are blatently false (examples can be supplied if you wish) and belie his supposed goodness, etc. Some christians argue that these are just mistakes and we should ignore them and see the bigger picture - Why, what sense is there in that? If some statements are obviously and demonstrably fictitious then how can you declare others (which you like) are true?

As for those good things which Jesus supposedly said, so what, they are not original to him. Name one idea of Jesus' which cannot be shown to be merely stolen from some earlier philosopher/thinker. If Jesus did say everything which is claimed then he was both a plagarist and an uneducated liar. Though to be honest it probably was the biblical authors who were guilty of such when they invented the whole thing.

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It is, of course, because of that aching disappointment that I describe myself as a former Catholic.

It is because it is all so silly and demonstrably made-up that I call myself an atheist. If any god does truly exist then man has not yet written about him.

quote:

Originally posted by Joliet:
And we all know what the punishment decreed for heretics is, don't we?

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump.
I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"
He said, "Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

(The full article has several other religious jokes at the end as well, but this is easily the best. )

This forums have become a form of lottery. You write something, press "post now" and many things may happen: there is a server error, your post contains "trigger" words, or your post appears but then mysteriously disappears, for reasons never explained.

I'm sending this post just to see what happens.

Regards.

quote:

Originally posted by Milan K:
This forums have become a form of lottery. You write something, press "post now" and many things may happen: there is a server error, your post contains "trigger" words, or your post appears but then mysteriously disappears, for reasons never explained.

I'm sending this post just to see what happens.

Regards.

quite agree, in fact I spend a lot less time here these days for these very reasons! there are other more reliable fora at present.