Or, more to the point, are we sleepwalking into one?
There's no doubt that either there's an agenda or a load of coincidences leading to what clearly appears to be the beginning of a police state. The evidence is everywhere.
Originally posted by Pearson29: Or, more to the point, are we sleepwalking into one?
There's no doubt that either there's an agenda or a load of coincidences leading to what clearly appears to be the beginning of a police state. The evidence is everywhere.
Don't worry. As soon as we enter the period of high photonic energy the police state will vanish and we will enter an age of peace, freedom and enlightment.
There's no doubt that either there's an agenda or a load of coincidences leading to what clearly appears to be the beginning of a police state. The evidence is everywhere.
Care to spell out the agenda or the load of coincidences which clearly appears to be leading to a police state?
I'd love to be convinced.
Also, I would be interested what you mean by a 'police state'
Originally posted by Pearson29: Or, more to the point, are we sleepwalking into one?
There's no doubt that either there's an agenda or a load of coincidences leading to what clearly appears to be the beginning of a police state. The evidence is everywhere.
Indeed it is. Do you ever listen to Alex Jones? He talks about the police state, which is more of a problem in the U.S. than it is here, especially after the 911 "terrorist" event.
I find it worrying that there are those who clearly see it, like yourself, and then there are those who don't. But I honestly think that they're in denial. How else can you explain their anger when these subjects are brought up? Notice how defensive they get, it's almost as if they know deep down what' going on, but they can't bear to face it. I see it all the time.
The government can lock up people for 28 days without charging them.
The average person is caught on camera many times a day, cameras which the government can get easy access to or owns themselves.
Every person details are held on many, many databases for a variety of departments Which the government wants to bring onto one big database holding ALL the information they can get about children (though MPs and celebs children would not be on that list).
The police can disperse groups of three or more people if they wish.
The governments (including councils) are on the whole creating more and more laws governing all sorts of things they would not have dared to legislate on before. Things like the smoking ban, against incitement to racial hatred, how you can speak to bar ladies and public drinking ban.
We have a completely unelected upper house.
And perhaps most importantly we live in a country where the young, on the whole, do not care about politics in anyway.
This is not close to an exhaustive list. But it does show that the government has most of the tools needed to become a police state. There are other things which seem to stand in the way of anyone attempting to bring this about. The Media is free (if mostly idiotic), the judiciary still bops the government on the nose from time to time, the internet and there is that thing called elections.
As for the definition, i would go for a country in which those who rule have complete control over laws and how they are enforced. But maybe others think differently.
I was trying to make the point that if a very popular party got elected in the near future, if it had the will, it could create a police state.
Thanks, I appreciate the time you’ve taken to think about this. I don’t necessarily disagree with you
"The government can lock up people for 28 days without charging them."
True, but this hardly constitutes a Police State. Think of Nazi Germany and Stalin’s Russia. Remember these decisions pass through Parliament .
"The average person is caught on camera many times a day, cameras which the government can get easy access to or owns themselves."
Again true, but so what? I’m seen by a lot of people every time I step out of my house, you give up your right to privacy every time you move about in public. Surely you would agree that surveillance cameras are a good thing in so far as they have tracked down criminals and stopped pub fights. Any examples where these cameras have impeded people’s democratic rights?
"Every person details are held on many, many databases for a variety of departments Which the government wants to bring onto one big database holding ALL the information they can get about children (though MPs and celebs children would not be on that list)."
Well, probably just a few databases. But remember its not the size of the database but the use to which they are put which is of concern. My son works for Government Department and he and many, many others like him would be the first report if such databases were being used for political repression. Of course there is a danger that they may get into the wrong hands (criminals) but you have to balance that risk against the greater efficiency of our government bureaucracy . I’m not sure why you claim MPs and children of Celebrities are excluded – I should think our security services have copious files on all our MPs!!
"The police can disperse groups of three or more people if they wish."
These powers can be challenged in the Courts. Again, there are many examples where groups are not conducive to public order, e.g. football firms, crowds gathering outside pubs, etc. You’d have to give me evidence of a particular political group that was being systematically dispersed by the Police.
"The governments (including councils) are on the whole creating more and more laws governing all sorts of things they would not have dared to legislate on before. Things like the smoking ban, against incitement to racial hatred, how you can speak to bar ladies and public drinking ban."
But this occurs because people in society also have rights to clean air in restaurants, freedom from racial and sexist abuse and from having their peace disturbed by drunken kids. You want to deny people these rights? Hardly a Police State.
"We have a completely unelected upper house."
True, but at worst the Chamber can only hold up legislation. In fact many of the issues you raise in your previous point are the sort of arguments championed by our Lords n’ Ladies. If the Upper House had real powers then I might agree with you.
"And perhaps most importantly we live in a country where the young, on the whole, do not care about politics in anyway."
Have the young ever really cared about politics? Other than when I was an undergraduate in the 1960s and “revolution was in the air”, youth is typically apathetic to formal politics.
"This is not close to an exhaustive list. But it does show that the government has most of the tools needed to become a police state. There are other things which seem to stand in the way of anyone attempting to bring this about. The Media is free (if mostly idiotic), the judiciary still bops the government on the nose from time to time, the internet and there is that thing called elections."
Here I have to agree with you. There are many checks ‘n balances in our system that on reasonable assumptions will prevent the State turning into a Police State
"As for the definition, i would go for a country in which those who rule have complete control over laws and how they are enforced. But maybe others think differently."
I agree, but are we really that close? Can you see opposition parties being banned? TV controlled? The judiciary losing its independence?
"I was trying to make the point that if a very popular party got elected in the near future, if it had the will, it could create a police state."
OK, but read my answer above. Must dash as the footie has started!!
For real we're in a babylon state. Mark of the beast, baby, big brother, it's all there. Watch 1984, then watch what's going down in the streets. It's almost identical.
I'm chillin' in my crib, knock on the door Who dat, I say, "We're gonna give you what for" Next thing I know, I'm on the floor Beat to a pulp, can't stand any more
Respect to my main man Alex Jones, he has eyes to see, you get me?
I only attempted to show that the tools are there parklaneyid, not that we live in a police state.
I agree with what you say on many accounts, but our government still has the tools to become a police state. Also the odd bity of your post appears slightly optimistic to me. Your son and the many like might find it difficult to tell wether or not such databases were being used for political repression for one example.
Originally posted by Yo Sushi!: For real we're in a babylon state. Mark of the beast, baby, big brother, it's all there. Watch 1984, then watch what's going down in the streets. It's almost identical.
I'm chillin' in my crib, knock on the door Who dat, I say, "We're gonna give you what for" Next thing I know, I'm on the floor Beat to a pulp, can't stand any more
Respect to my main man Alex Jones, he has eyes to see, you get me?
Although watching 1984 is good I recommend also reading 1984
I wouldn't quite say we're in a police state yet, but it's going that way. We have more CCTV cameras than anyone else in the western world I believe, and it clearly does no good as far as stopping crime is concerned.
The ID cards, the DNA database and al that stuff is, however, a huge step to far. The fact the police can lift you with no reason is a slap in the face of democracy. There's just no need for it, and slipping it in through terrorism fearmongering makes it all the more enraging.
Anyone who lived through the miner's strike or the battle of the beanfield knows that we have been in a police state for quite some time.
All that was needed was the will, back in the eighties our leaders had the will. It does appear that the will is returning.
You do not need tools tools to create a police state, merely a leadership that believes they are above the law, and a legislature that cares little for human rights. We already have the legislature, yes we can challenge an injustice in court, that will not stop the injustice from happening and the majority of us (that's you and me) cannot afford to go to court.
For justice to exist, it must be available to everyone, not the select few.
Originally posted by winegums: I wouldn't quite say we're in a police state yet, but it's going that way. We have more CCTV cameras than anyone else in the western world I believe, and it clearly does no good as far as stopping crime is concerned.
The ID cards, the DNA database and al that stuff is, however, a huge step to far. The fact the police can lift you with no reason is a slap in the face of democracy. There's just no need for it, and slipping it in through terrorism fearmongering makes it all the more enraging.
It certainly is a huge step too far. You sound like you've been on the receiving end.
