I really loved the music for the Sufi dancing - is there a cd available? I've looked on Amazon but none of it sounds the same as that beautiful, simple sound of just a guitar and a voice.
Originally posted by julia bard: Do you think spirituality shopping – trying out different religious practices – can give meaning to our lives? Read more at Can you believe it?
No I don't see how this sort of 'pick and mix' approach can be of any help. When you take a small isolated part of Judaism, strip it of the readings (which give it spiritual meaning), add to it, the human side of a Christian festival again stripped of its context, then throw in some sufi practices from yet a third again with no apparant context, what you are creating has no logic. The rationale behind all these activities are based on different world views, and differnet views of the creator god or gods. Their meaning belongs to their contexts which are mutually exclusive of each other. All that is left then are some random practices that are plucked from thin air, with no real context in any sort of cohesive concept of God or religion at all.
Originally posted by Hawthorne: I really loved the music for the Sufi dancing - is there a cd available? I've looked on Amazon but none of it sounds the same as that beautiful, simple sound of just a guitar and a voice.
I too have been trying to obtain the Cd that they played but without success. I would be grateful if someone would tell us. Is it possible to e-mail the producer of the program? What was the Sufi gentleman`s name?
<Aberdeenloon>
Posted
I enjoyed the first of the programmes. There may well be a danger in window-shopping for religion, but it is where many people are at present. The programme was not world shattering but it was a refreshing change from the secular fundamentalism which seeks to silence and/ridicule all forms of religious belief. I thought it was well presented and tolerant. Jonanthan Edwards was non-judgmental and accepting. As someone whose basic belief system is Christian, I felt comfortable watching it. Yes, and I did like the Sufi music too!
Originally posted by Sunny D'Light: I agree Sherianddave with you to some extent, but I think you have lost sight of the underlying needs of modern people in pursuing spirituality. If you do acknowledge that, you will see that primarily their needs are not philosophy and doctrine, but pragmatic solutions, with an emphasis on tangible results, to put them in touch with their spirituality and make them happier, calmer and more confident people.
For these intents and purposes, the concept of picking and choosing spiritual practices to integrate into ones life ,so as long as they are not contradictory, is a good one. As we saw with the woman in the first episode; she has actually benefited from most of her practices.
Spirituality, is a personal journey of self cultivation and discovery, and we should have the freedom to select the tools that will help us in our journey. Before that we should have awareness of the various tools that are at our disposal. Hence why I think spirituality shopper is a splendid idea and it will contribute in bringing some awareness of spirituality to the masses, without the dogma, doctrine and blind beleifs of religion.
By picking and choosing like this, these people are just exercising their humanist, instinctual judgement to decide what they pick from where. They already have the answers and are just assembling supertitious baggage around them rather than finding solutions or a sense of spirituality which in any situation is counterproductive compared with relying on yourself to sort life's problems out.
I've ranted on this in much greater detail in the bigots thread in this forum if anyone cares.
"Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." - Charles Bradlaugh.
Originally posted by Sunny D'Light: I agree Sherianddave with you to some extent, but I think you have lost sight of the underlying needs of modern people in pursuing spirituality. If you do acknowledge that, you will see that primarily their needs are not philosophy and doctrine, but pragmatic solutions, with an emphasis on tangible results, to put them in touch with their spirituality and make them happier, calmer and more confident people.
For these intents and purposes, the concept of picking and choosing spiritual practices to integrate into ones life ,so as long as they are not contradictory, is a good one. As we saw with the woman in the first episode; she has actually benefited from most of her practices.
Spirituality, is a personal journey of self cultivation and discovery, and we should have the freedom to select the tools that will help us in our journey. Before that we should have awareness of the various tools that are at our disposal. Hence why I think spirituality shopper is a splendid idea and it will contribute in bringing some awareness of spirituality to the masses, without the dogma, doctrine and blind beleifs of religion.
I agree that to pick and mix from different religions will fulfill people's needs to some extent, after all, what you do is take the nice parts from everything and leave the messy or hard areas alone, easy really. However as a Christian I see daily 'pragmatic solutions with tangible results',not that my life has been a bed of roses, far from it, but taking the rough with the smooth is all part of it and knowing (as I believe) that the God who made the whole universe has a concern and an interest in little old me, even though He knows me inside out is great and the way I live and approach life is a response to that love He has for me!! Awaiting a response to the gush!!!
Originally posted by Sunny D'Light: I agree Sherianddave with you to some extent, but I think you have lost sight of the underlying needs of modern people in pursuing spirituality. If you do acknowledge that, you will see that primarily their needs are not philosophy and doctrine, but pragmatic solutions, with an emphasis on tangible results, to put them in touch with their spirituality and make them happier, calmer and more confident people.
For these intents and purposes, the concept of picking and choosing spiritual practices to integrate into ones life ,so as long as they are not contradictory, is a good one. As we saw with the woman in the first episode; she has actually benefited from most of her practices.
Spirituality, is a personal journey of self cultivation and discovery, and we should have the freedom to select the tools that will help us in our journey. Before that we should have awareness of the various tools that are at our disposal. Hence why I think spirituality shopper is a splendid idea and it will contribute in bringing some awareness of spirituality to the masses, without the dogma, doctrine and blind beleifs of religion.
By picking and choosing like this, these people are just exercising their humanist, instinctual judgement to decide what they pick from where. They already have the answers and are just assembling supertitious baggage around them rather than finding solutions or a sense of spirituality which in any situation is counterproductive compared with relying on yourself to sort life's problems out.
I've ranted on this in much greater detail in the bigots thread in this forum if anyone cares.
Personally I'd rather not rely on myself alone to sort life's problems out, but ask God to let me know what I should be doing and how I should be doing it and then do it!
Dear Sunny D, I would not wishfully intend to preach at someone, words don't work. There is much more to Christianity than preaching religion. My faith is a practical one in which God is involved in every aspect, more a way of life I guess. Jesus is what matters most to me and that's expressed in how I live, how I am as a wife, a mother, a friend, a colleugue, how I spend my money, my leisure time etc etc. The reason I live like I do is not because I feel bogged down by rules expectations etc, but out of a love relationship in response to how God shows He cares about me in the everyday things in life.It's real it works even today!!
well I loved the program... I have trouble meditating but I can see where I was wrong with my approach. Whats wrong with "cherry picking" the best of the many religions, I have been doing it for years.
Originally posted by Asarualim: By picking and choosing like this, these people are just exercising their humanist, instinctual judgement to decide what they pick from where. They already have the answers and are just assembling supertitious baggage around them rather than finding solutions or a sense of spirituality which in any situation is counterproductive compared with relying on yourself to sort life's problems out.
I've ranted on this in much greater detail in the bigots thread in this forum if anyone cares.
Personally I'd rather not rely on myself alone to sort life's problems out, but ask God to let me know what I should be doing and how I should be doing it and then do it!
But how will your god let you know? How do yo know it's not the devil telling you what to do? By exercising humanist judgement! You're already relying on yourself and your instincts to decide what is good and bad advice. Have you so little confidence in your own judgement that you have to dress it up and let someone else take responsibility for your decisions?
"Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." - Charles Bradlaugh.
Just a comment around the quality of the programme itself rather than the spirituality contained within. When I saw it advertised in advance, I was really looking forward to an insightful intriguing tour de force of different aspects of spirituality. The premise for the show was perfect - there is so much good material out there, so many great aspects of spirituality - but alas to my horror it turned out to be the most boring dud show I have ever forced myself to watch, it begged me to change channel at every cringing second, but I endured hoping for some dullness to dissipate. But to no avail - how anyone could make a potentially riveting show so downright stale and boring is beyond me, let alone the usually daring and buoyant C4. Perhaps some of the clunky wooden execution would have been avoided by having an enthusiastic person as the 'guinea pig' as opposed to this lady. How does C4 cast for such a show, surely some TV charisma is demanded. This lady was so flawlessly boring that even the opportunity to let-go in the 'whirling' was seized in a mind-numbingly tedious, slow and lifeless fashion. I was almost comatose on the armchair thinking perhaps it's caffeine or even a pulse that this lady needs to spice up her dull existence rather than spirituality, as she brought to this show the energy, enthusiasm and flair of a retired civil servant and please C4, please don't let the next episode be so passionless.
But how will your god let you know? How do yo know it's not the devil telling you what to do? By exercising humanist judgement! You're already relying on yourself and your instincts to decide what is good and bad advice. Have you so little confidence in your own judgement that you have to dress it up and let someone else take responsibility for your decisions?[/QUOTE]
I take the responsibilty for my actions and my decisions, because how I live is up to me. How do I know it's God and not the devil...simple really...I've got to know God over the last few years, just like you recognise a friends voice,you can recognise God's voice too. But if you're not sure...you can check it out...now you really think I'm off the planet!!
"how has your faith made your life any more different than the life of an atheist?"
I can't answer for Sherianddave, but I too am a Chritian and I get up every morning knowing that God loves and is looking out for me. As I walk to work or uni I know that whatever happens in the day I have God with me and he'll provide me with the strentgh that I need. Also I know exactly where I'm going after death so don't have to worry about that or any of the major things in life, like money, job or relationships, because I know that God provides and looks after those who love him. I live each day with hope and knowing that God loves me just as I am. Which is the very tip of the iceberg of the amazing things God has done for me and also the Christians that I know.
Originally posted by Shrubette: "how has your faith made your life any more different than the life of an atheist?"
I can't answer for Sherianddave, but I too am a Chritian and I get up every morning knowing that God loves and is looking out for me. As I walk to work or uni I know that whatever happens in the day I have God with me and he'll provide me with the strentgh that I need. Also I know exactly where I'm going after death so don't have to worry about that or any of the major things in life, like money, job or relationships, because I know that God provides and looks after those who love him. I live each day with hope and knowing that God loves me just as I am. Which is the very tip of the iceberg of the amazing things God has done for me and also the Christians that I know.
Dear Sunny D, I do take full responsibility for my life. Should I go and break the law today, it's me that takes the rap for it so like you
1. I am responsible for all my judgements 2. I am responsible to absolve all my problems 3. I am responsible for my actions 4. I am responsible for who I am today
But how I come to those judgements, how I absolve my problems, how I live and who I am is different from you, simply because I ask for God's wisdom in them, that's what Jesus did too. It doesn't make me any less responsible for the decisions I make and I can still choose to accept God's way or go with it in every situation.
Originally posted by Hawthorne: I really loved the music for the Sufi dancing - is there a cd available? I've looked on Amazon but none of it sounds the same as that beautiful, simple sound of just a guitar and a voice.
I can agree with you totally that a lot of these experiences like yoga and sufi dancing can make people feel better in themselves. I have no doubt that they can, as can a great many other things. Chocolate is a great one! Life can be very sucessfully lived without any sort of god ... focusing entirely on oneself, or even other people. But that is not what I am talking about at all. My faith in God is not about getting me to feel better, or be sucessful. Having recognised that God exists, it is now about having a relationship with God who is external to me, but in relationship with me. In this case my belief is not there to give me a warm feeling and make me feel good at all. It's there because I beleive God IS. Prayer too, is not there to act as a crutch, but I am talking to someone who is really there, and really listens, and really answers too. I have many stories of the way that God has answered, and in terms of healings, real practical ones ... my daughter's severe excema for instance (she had holes in her legs and we had to bandage her every night)That all suddenly stopped, and the holes cleared up almost overnight.
So integrating all sorts of things into my daily lifestyle like Spirituality shopper does, is fine, if your belief is all about me, and making my like better, warm and fuzzy, and then it does not matter where you draw your practices from. If it feels good ... do it (though are you really even prepared to say that this is true?.
But if you have a relationship with God, then it is about being with God, loving God, and following that path because it really works ... not because I am inventing things to make me feel good. For me, faith is not something that simply works on an internal level, it is real, based on fact, experience, and historical evidence too.
Originally posted by julia bard: Do you think spirituality shopping – trying out different religious practices – can give meaning to our lives? Read more at Can you believe it?
I quite enjoyed the programme. It is interesting that we can pick and mix practices in this way in this time and this country. This kind of freedom can only be a good thing for the health of all genuine searchers for the Truth.
It did however largely leave the big questions out i.e. who am I , what is my relation to the world ? which is where 'religeon' or 'views' come in.
I still think we are talking at cross purposes with each other. Yoga, and all the things featured in that programme, and many others besides, all help on the here and now today level of life. There are many ways of making our lives better, as well as there are of making them worse. Some of those are mutually exclusive, as I said initially, but, there is a fundamental difference between us. I am talking about a relationship with God, not a philosophy, religion, or even system of practices that makes me feel good. This relationship is ultimately satisfying now, because it is what I was made for in the first place. It is also ultimately satisfying in the fullest sense of that word, because it means that I am in a good relationship with my maker for when I die. What I have been saying is as fundamentally different as saying aspirin helps with the pain of a broken arm,and can make you feel marginally better, but getting in to see the doctor can fix it.
I thought that this thread was going to be about Shopping as a means to discovering enlightenment/god! Personally, I think that people have no choice but to Shop around since we live in a post-darwinist world where most organised religions are losing their power and appeal leaving many drifting round in search of meaning like characters in a Samuel Beckett play. Plus, be glad we don't live a religious fundamentalist,totalitarian state where there is only one shop and you're forced to buy what ever it's selling .
~~~~~o~~~~~~ \X/ELL \X/ISHER (\/\an of (\/\ystery ~~~~~o~~~~~~
This was never about a discussion of a "relationship with god" that is not spiritualiy, that is religion. As I made explcitly clear above, religion is not for everyone, but spirituality is.
Further, Yoga does actually lead to god-realization Yoga means union, and the ultimate goal of a yogi is to unite with Christ consciousness. A yogin does this by following one of the many paths of yoga.
This is why I said above, that most people who do these practices, have spiritual experiences and realizations. You see the difference between you and them, is they have actualized their beliefs, and have a more comprehensive understanding of mind, reality and how they relate.
While you, simply rely on others interpretations of what spirituality is, And I am not generalizing here, but most religious people are not any more peaceful or happier than others.
If God wanted you to have a relationship with him, he wouldn't have sent you here. He's given you life, to live and experience reality, and create your own reality. He wants you to be happy and soverign. So do that, and stop worrying about god and death, because I believe he does exist, and he is always with us and living our life with us.
So take advantage of all the spiritiual and material wisdom, to live your life to it's fullest and fulfil yourself, and by doing that you are already forming a relationship with god. That is what true spirituality is all about.
Why is having a relationship with God not part of spirituality? I don't consider it to be part of religion as, religion is all about the stuff you have to do to get to God, the Bible has made it clear to me that by doing stuff I'm never going to get to God because he is sooo Holy, but because Jesus (being without sin) died on the cross, God's wrath was statisfied and all I have to do is beleieve and follow and reep all the benefits. However I do agree that spirituality is important to everyone.
Um... if you can find a Bible verse that says about yoga uniting you to Christ's consciousness that would be great. Also, as that is the aim of a yogin, why do they follow "one of the many paths of yoga" when Jesus himself said that He was the Way, the Truth and the Life?
This was never about a discussion of a "relationship with god" that is not spiritualiy, that is religion. ...
and by doing that you are already forming a relationship with god. That is what true spirituality is all about.
Have you noticed that your comments are actually confused here? Is relationship with God spirituality in your opinion or not? Actually, you don't really need to answer that do you. Spirituality is about the spirit ... that which affects our spirit. Lots of things do that in the natural realm ... you have mentioned many that can make us happier better people in the purely here and now. However ... that is to take the term spirit, and actually twist its meaning slightly, to mean the feelings inside me ... rather than a spiritual part of my being that is apart from the physical. If that second option is the true meaning of spirit, and if God placed that spirit there for us to reach out to know Him, for He is spirit, and it is in the realm of spirit that He can be known ... then the best way to satisfy that need for spirituality that we all seem to have ... is by a relationship with God. That is, as you say, what true spirituality is all about.
The spirituality that you, and the programme have been referring to, is a much lesser humanistic thing, relating more to our physical feelings, perhaps close even to our emotions. On that realm, yoga might be great for you personally, though I prefer chocolate or sport to make me feel good physically or emotionally.
I guess we have too different an expectation from life to really come to an agreement here. So I wish you well in your spiritual journeys Sunni D'Light
.