God made the earth, including the geological fault in the Indian Ocean near Sumatra. God did so in the full knowledge that on 26 December 2004 it would cause a tsunami that would kill over 200,000 people, a high proportion of whom were children. Why did he do that?
I suppose believers would say something about how there must be suffering on earth for us to gain understanding or some similar nonsense. Or that "ours is not to reason why".
A typical response would be that suffering is necessary to learn humility and kindness in preparation for the next life.
I don't object to the fact that suffering exists - what I find absurd is the way in which suffering is unevenly distributed. We can't all be learning the same things, and if we're all going to one of two places, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I don't object to the fact that suffering exists - what I find absurd is the way in which suffering is unevenly distributed. We can't all be learning the same things, and if we're all going to one of two places, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Agree, why do the poor seem so much more in need of lessons and punishments on earth by the 'loving' god. I gave up trying to make any sense out of it a long time ago!
About a year before the Tsunami, they were considering an early warning system, like the one that protects the Pacific Rim (US Western Seaboard, South America, Japan) to give early warnings of any possible tsunamis around the Indian Ocean - they did not do so.
Warnings were given about the inefficiency of the levee's in New Orleans, before Katrina struck.
Mankind loves the 'passing the blame' game - it's been happening since the dawn of time!
Originally posted by BrightScouse: God made the earth, including the geological fault in the Indian Ocean near Sumatra. God did so in the full knowledge that on 26 December 2004 it would cause a tsunami that would kill over 200,000 people, a high proportion of whom were children. Why did he do that?
Something that doesn't get considered very often is that there IS a god, but he's vindictive and arbitrary. Much like the gods of old. Makes more sense than the christian god.
Originally posted by BrightScouse: God made the earth, including the geological fault in the Indian Ocean near Sumatra. God did so in the full knowledge that on 26 December 2004 it would cause a tsunami that would kill over 200,000 people, a high proportion of whom were children. Why did he do that?
Something that doesn't get considered very often is that there IS a god, but he's vindictive and arbitrary. Much like the gods of old. Makes more sense than the christian god.
And if that were true, then all the more reason to keep on the right side of Him, surely?
Originally posted by Heselbine: [if] there IS a god, but he's vindictive and arbitrary. Much like the gods of old. Makes more sense than the christian god.
And if that were true, then all the more reason to keep on the right side of Him, surely?
Heh, that *is* the christian god if you're a smock-wearing, turnip-wielding fundamentalist like troolf. That's why fundies are so much fun to argue with - their religion makes perfect sense. Perfect, cackling, megamaniacal, insane, brains-in-the-blender sense.
I took the time to ask God about this. She said that the human operating system is devolved to the point where it cannot ask these questions in any meaningful sense. Such theological questions posed at an unknown evolutionary point against the backdrop of infinite spacetime has the same answer as the square root of infinity. Instead of trying to find answers where there are none, just be a little nicer to the next person you meet.
Originally posted by zarteus: I took the time to ask God about this. She said that the human operating system is devolved to the point where it cannot ask these questions in any meaningful sense. Such theological questions posed at an unknown evolutionary point against the backdrop of infinite spacetime has the same answer as the square root of infinity. Instead of trying to find answers where there are none, just be a little nicer to the next person you meet.
My thoughts on questions such as this are - I'm afraid – that we are all going to die sooner or later and that in the great scheme of things, when is irrelevant, to us. We have the average three score years and ten, (See Dawkins on longevity) and then we go, all of us. There is a purpose in all of this in that we are here to learn: not science or making money – that's just an also ran, you can't take it with you. Complete extinction is also not an option as we continue on to the next stage in the adventure. Those who don't believe that this exists will wander lost, not even believing they are dead. It's sad. There are no ultimate answers, just choices. The learning is about making the right ones.
Originally posted by BrightScouse: God made the earth, including the geological fault in the Indian Ocean near Sumatra. God did so in the full knowledge that on 26 December 2004 it would cause a tsunami that would kill over 200,000 people, a high proportion of whom were children. Why did he do that?
God cares?
Can anyone else remember the 1980s when the computer company Wang once had the same slogan?
Ok, perhaps I haven't been clear here. First my position is as a 'bright' (i.e. atheist) and the question was intended as an exercise in logic, philosophy, call it what you like. I would prefer replies to address the issue rather than debate the existence of god. This also goes for my later topic too.
Originally posted by BrightScouse: Ok, perhaps I haven't been clear here. First my position is as a 'bright' (i.e. atheist) and the question was intended as an exercise in logic, philosophy, call it what you like. I would prefer replies to address the issue rather than debate the existence of god. This also goes for my later topic too.
In response to your original post. You don't need to quote major catastrophes. The god theists pray to to help them overcome, say, cancer, must be the very one who gave it to them in the first place.
Originally posted by BrightScouse: God made the earth, including the geological fault in the Indian Ocean near Sumatra. God did so in the full knowledge that on 26 December 2004 it would cause a tsunami that would kill over 200,000 people, a high proportion of whom were children. Why did he do that?
Well if your talking about the Monotheistic God of Judo Christainity then no, hes not directly responsible for that.
To critize an ideaology more effectively its best to study some foundementals.
The fall is an effect which explains aspects of how sin becomes manifest on all creation. Regardless if you believe this account or not, this helps concentrate your criticism more effectively on the accused theology.
Originally posted by regster: I suppose believers would say something about how there must be suffering on earth for us to gain understanding or some similar nonsense. Or that "ours is not to reason why".
Maybe for some who don't bother understanding their creed. But thats common in all ideologies.
Originally posted by BrightScouse: God made the earth, including the geological fault in the Indian Ocean near Sumatra. God did so in the full knowledge that on 26 December 2004 it would cause a tsunami that would kill over 200,000 people, a high proportion of whom were children. Why did he do that?
Well if your talking about the Monotheistic God of Judo Christainity then no, hes not directly responsible for that.
To critize an ideaology more effectively its best to study some foundementals.
The fall is an effect which explains aspects of how sin becomes manifest on all creation. Regardless if you believe this account or not, this helps concentrate your criticism more effectively on the accused theology.
What? The question has nothing to do with sin.
An omniscient, omnipotent god is responsible for everything. How can he not be responsible?
Responsible yes, I see what you mean. IN regard to Christainity their is the question of unconditional love. Its premise is that you create living beings who are given free choice to decide how there are to steward creation.
This is a fairly common Criticism of its theology by aGnostics and Atheists, understandably.
For example, why didn't God explain in detail to Adam and Eve the infinate consequences of their decision if they accessed certain "data" bases of knowledge.
To some regard I suppose that the metaphore would be fitting to use a parent as an example.
When I tell my kids about certain things, sometimes I tell them why they should not make a decision and explain consequences in detail, other times I do not.
Again this maynot be a great explaination for now but its something.
Originally posted by BrightScouse: Ok, perhaps I haven't been clear here. First my position is as a 'bright' (i.e. atheist) and the question was intended as an exercise in logic, philosophy, call it what you like. I would prefer replies to address the issue rather than debate the existence of god. This also goes for my later topic too.
Again - what is the point of this topic? You say you are atheist. Why are you then asking why a God in whose existence you don't believe would permit, or not permit, something to happen? This is not a worthy subject for debate.
Originally posted by Sheik Yahbouti: Again - what is the point of this topic? You say you are atheist. Why are you then asking why a God in whose existence you don't believe would permit, or not permit, something to happen? This is not a worthy subject for debate.
I think it is reasonable to ask someone who does believe in god to explain something from their POV. I suspect it is unlikely that a sensible/logically consistent answer will be forthcoming. Which would make the question pointless.
