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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: quote: Originally posted by Milan K: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
It's a pity that he didn't have the balls to create such a stir by commenting upon something more worthy; like abortion law, for instance.
Or religious hatred.
Or homophobia.
Or how it is possible for an intelligent person to believe in the Christian mythology in the 21st century without committing intellectual suicide. That would be interesting.
That mankind has, arguably, on average, become slightly more highly educated than was previously the case, does nothing to diminish the truth of the Gospel.
I'm afraid it does, as less people now think the Gospel is the 'truth'.
Kat: "Don't take any more of my friend away! Oh enough, enough Big Brother enough, please no more"
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quote: Originally posted by Joliet: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
That mankind has, arguably, on average, become slightly more highly educated than was previously the case,
No thanks to religion. quote:
does nothing to diminish the truth of the Gospel.
What truth? - Prove the gospels are true and not some man-made fiction before claiming them as such. Making such statements as you do is a form of lying. Naughty little sinner, you.
I see you've learned nothing from your Joob's experience. Calling someone a liar has consequences. I guess you just can't fight your nature hmm.
Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900)
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quote: Originally posted by Joliet: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
That mankind has, arguably, on average, become slightly more highly educated than was previously the case,
No thanks to religion.
A statement which merely shows how breathtakingly ignorant you are about the development of the education system in the UK or indeed Europe and infact the western world.
Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much.
Oscar Wilde (1854 - 1900)
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quote: Originally posted by ugetmi: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: quote: Originally posted by Milan K: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
It's a pity that he didn't have the balls to create such a stir by commenting upon something more worthy; like abortion law, for instance.
Or religious hatred.
Or homophobia.
Or how it is possible for an intelligent person to believe in the Christian mythology in the 21st century without committing intellectual suicide. That would be interesting.
That mankind has, arguably, on average, become slightly more highly educated than was previously the case, does nothing to diminish the truth of the Gospel.
I'm afraid it does, as less people now think the Gospel is the 'truth'.
Popular opinion or belief does not make something true, as can be verified by the widespread acceptance of the Theory of Evolution. Similarly, whether you believe in it or not, the Gospel is true.
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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quote: Originally posted by ballyboneman: quote: Originally posted by Joliet: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
That mankind has, arguably, on average, become slightly more highly educated than was previously the case,
No thanks to religion.
A statement which merely shows how breathtakingly ignorant you are about the development of the education system in the UK or indeed Europe and infact the western world.
Oh please, the religious may have had a large role in the introduction of education for the masses but that does not negate the much longer period when christianity restricted learning to its own and due to its dogma led ideas of what was allowable actually made some knowledge disappear. I am ignorant - maybe? However, I have heard of the Dark Ages why they are so called and of their cause. The true dishonesty of you theists is that you always try to forget about all the wrong your religion has been responsible for and just cite some episode when religious people did the right thing as though this completely exonerates and mitigates what preceded. The true lesson we are given from history is that religious thought and doctrine is a nonsense system on which to base our societies. |
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
Popular opinion or belief does not make something true,
Yeah, agreed. Just look at how many idiots believe in their religious "truth" or that some mythical god exists. quote:
as can be verified by the widespread acceptance of the Theory of Evolution.
No ToE is accepted as true because there is a large mass of evidence to support the explanation it gives. What evidence is there for your god? None - It is based solely on belief so by your own argument it disappears up your anal orifice. quote:
the Gospel is true.
OK, just for argument, let's say the gospels are true. That would mean that Jesus was not the true messiah. In these "true" gospels he lies, steals and does many other sins. Most notably though he makes false prophecies and it is clearly stated that anyone who does such is a false prophet. Therefore, your whole religion is based on a falsity. |
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quote: Originally posted by ballyboneman:
Calling someone a liar has consequences. I guess you just can't fight your nature hmm.
To state something is true without evidence to back it up is a lie. See the 2nd definition of lie in the OED. If a statement is creating a false impression of truth then it is a lie and you as the writer of said are thus a liar. Sorry, but them's the rules. I didn't make them merely reiterate them. Wolfie has been asked on numerous occasions to prove his "true" statements. He hasn't ever done so - In fact he has actually admitted that it is all based solely on his belief with no evidence. Therefore his statement is a lie. Are you so ignorant that you cannot see the truth in that? Anyway you are correct - we are all creatures of nature (not of god). I note you too never answer any criticism of your stupid religion and its nonsenses. That is the real giveaway - you theists protest your "truth" but when cited the idiocies and contradictions from that book of farce, the bible, you suddenly clam up and run away. Such honesty in your argument. |
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quote: Originally posted by Joliet: quote: Originally posted by ballyboneman:
Calling someone a liar has consequences. I guess you just can't fight your nature hmm.
To state something is true without evidence to back it up is a lie. See the 2nd definition of lie in the OED. If a statement is creating a false impression of truth then it is a lie and you as the writer of said are thus a liar. Sorry, but them's the rules. I didn't make them merely reiterate them. Wolfie has been asked on numerous occasions to prove his "true" statements. He hasn't ever done so - In fact he has actually admitted that it is all based solely on his belief with no evidence. Therefore his statement is a lie. Are you so ignorant that you cannot see the truth in that? .
Yeah, right: Like you can "prove" the theory of evolution. Fortunately, God sees what is in the heart, rather than considering what the OED says, so there's hope for me and the Bone Man, yet. It's not too late for a change of heart for yourself you know, Joobs.
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: quote: Originally posted by ugetmi: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: quote: Originally posted by Milan K: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
It's a pity that he didn't have the balls to create such a stir by commenting upon something more worthy; like abortion law, for instance.
Or religious hatred.
Or homophobia.
Or how it is possible for an intelligent person to believe in the Christian mythology in the 21st century without committing intellectual suicide. That would be interesting.
That mankind has, arguably, on average, become slightly more highly educated than was previously the case, does nothing to diminish the truth of the Gospel.
I'm afraid it does, as less people now think the Gospel is the 'truth'.
Popular opinion or belief does not make something true, as can be verified by the widespread acceptance of the Theory of Evolution. Similarly, whether you believe in it or not, the Gospel is true.
True, but 'popular opinion' is why you believe in the gospel and not the Sun, River or Tree God. It doesn't matter if you say "The gospel is true" one or a million times, it doesn't make it any more of the truth, if that's all you've got as evidence. The theory of evolution can be seen before our eyes at the microscopic level such as more and more microbes becoming immune to penicillin. As no one lives for millions of years, that's the best we have, plus fossils, carbon dating and the geological record.
Kat: "Don't take any more of my friend away! Oh enough, enough Big Brother enough, please no more"
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
Yeah, right: Like you can "prove" the theory of evolution.
It is not I that prove it but the overwhelming mass of evidence which supports the theory which does that. That you choose to deny or ignore that evidence is your intellectual dishonesty, not mine. quote:
Fortunately, God sees what is in the heart,
That's you stuffed then.  quote:
rather than considering what the OED says, so there's hope for me and the Bone Man, yet.
Sorry, that doesn't work. You could easily make a truthful and honest statement that "you believe god exists" or "you believe Jesus existed" that you choose to make a false statement is your sin. And yes, if your god does exist he will know you are lying on purpose. He demands that you have faith in him not that you lie to prove that faith. quote:
It's not too late for a change of heart for yourself you know, Joobs.
I know you theists have a problem reading the bible but I hadn't realised it spreads to everything you read. My posting name is Joliet not Joobs. I know reading is hard for some but do try.  Thanks for your concern, but I think I'll just stick with reason, logic and common sense. I leave belief in myths and the supernatural to the idiotic and intellectually dishonest. |
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
whether you believe in it or not, the Gospel is true.
Fine. So given that is your POV can you explain how Jesus is the prophecised messiah. After all he is quoted in your true gospels as saying: Matt 24:34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled". Jesus made this statement after listing a wide assortment of events that were to occur. Yet, to this day amongst others: 1. The Son of man has not come (like lightning shining from the east to the west) 2. All the tribes of the earth have not seen him coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory 3. His angels with sounds of a trumpet gathering the elect from all parts of the world haven't yet made their appearance. 4. The sun has not become darkened. 5. The moon has not failed to give its light. 6. The stars have not fallen from heaven. So his prediction that not a generation would pass has extended to become 2,000 years. If this prophecy is true then how do you explain its apparent failure. It is clearly stated in your "true" book that anyone who makes a false prophecy is a false prophet. What say you then? |
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Easy peasy, could I try. quote: Originally posted by Joliet:
1. The Son of man has not come (like lightning shining from the east to the west)
He has come and is with us, just not in physical form.
2. All the tribes of the earth have not seen him coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
Seen in the clouds, he has even been seen in toast.
3. His angels with sounds of a trumpet gathering the elect from all parts of the world haven't yet made their appearance.
I think JW's count don't they
4. The sun has not become darkened.
It was pretty gloomy a couple of days back and there was even an eclipse a few yerars ago, surely that counts
5. The moon has not failed to give its light.
I have some pics of the most recent lunar eclipse, when the moon was prevented from reflecting light from the sun, which is sort of the same thing thing, given the understanding of people of time time. The big myth book was written for the people of the time you know.
6. The stars have not fallen from heaven.
I spent a couple of hours in November around midnight on a sun bed watching the Leonid's shower. Clearly they were star-like so that must be true, as any light in the sky is a star as distinct to the sun which is something entirely different.
So his prediction that not a generation would pass has extended to become 2,000 years. If this prophecy is true then how do you explain its apparent failure.
It is clearly stated in your "true" book that anyone who makes a false prophecy is a false prophet. What say you then?
You just need to know how to read the great book properly. That isn't interpreting it, you understand, it is understanding what message the great one was conveying to us.
Atheism - a non-prophet organisation
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quote: Originally posted by free_thinker: Easy peasy, could I try. quote: Originally posted by Joliet:
1. The Son of man has not come (like lightning shining from the east to the west)
He has come and is with us, just not in physical form.
2. All the tribes of the earth have not seen him coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
Seen in the clouds, he has even been seen in toast.
3. His angels with sounds of a trumpet gathering the elect from all parts of the world haven't yet made their appearance.
I think JW's count don't they
4. The sun has not become darkened.
It was pretty gloomy a couple of days back and there was even an eclipse a few yerars ago, surely that counts
5. The moon has not failed to give its light.
I have some pics of the most recent lunar eclipse, when the moon was prevented from reflecting light from the sun, which is sort of the same thing thing, given the understanding of people of time time. The big myth book was written for the people of the time you know.
6. The stars have not fallen from heaven.
I spent a couple of hours in November around midnight on a sun bed watching the Leonid's shower. Clearly they were star-like so that must be true, as any light in the sky is a star as distinct to the sun which is something entirely different.
So his prediction that not a generation would pass has extended to become 2,000 years. If this prophecy is true then how do you explain its apparent failure.
It is clearly stated in your "true" book that anyone who makes a false prophecy is a false prophet. What say you then?
You just need to know how to read the great book properly. That isn't interpreting it, you understand, it is understanding what message the great one was conveying to us.
Whoa!! Free Thinker! Starting to live up to your name, at last! Respec' !
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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quote: Originally posted by free_thinker:
1. The Son of man has not come (like lightning shining from the east to the west)
He has come and is with us, just not in physical form.
Nope, that doesn't meet the "like lightning shining from the east to the west" criteria which is stipulated. quote:
2. All the tribes of the earth have not seen him coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
Seen in the clouds, he has even been seen in toast.
A few people interpreting clouds or their toast as a vision of god/jesus is hardly "All the tribes". So again this explanation fails. quote:
3. His angels with sounds of a trumpet gathering the elect from all parts of the world haven't yet made their appearance.
I think JW's count don't they
Nope, JWs may be a bit weird but they are still humans not angels so another failure. quote:
4. The sun has not become darkened.
It was pretty gloomy a couple of days back and there was even an eclipse a few yerars ago, surely that counts
Solar eclipses are merely visibly localised events from the Earth the sun itself has never become "darkened". quote:
5. The moon has not failed to give its light.
I have some pics of the most recent lunar eclipse, when the moon was prevented from reflecting light from the sun, which is sort of the same thing thing, given the understanding of people of time time. The big myth book was written for the people of the time you know.
As you correctly state the moon merely reflects the light of the Sun. The light is merely an effect of the moon's albedo it cannot ever live up to this part of the prophecy since it does not have any light of its own. quote:
6. The stars have not fallen from heaven.
I spent a couple of hours in November around midnight on a sun bed watching the Leonid's shower. Clearly they were star-like so that must be true, as any light in the sky is a star as distinct to the sun which is something entirely different.
Even in the days of jesus comets, meteor and other such objects were distinguished from stars. So calling these star-like is really a grasping at straws. Anyway, the quoted verses say "the stars" this implies all stars not just some. If it were only some then it would say "some stars", it doesn't. The prediction was that all this (and more) would happen within a generation. It didn't so the prophecy is false. Mind you, your apologetics seemed to satisfy Wolfie.  No surprises there, then. |
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
Whoa!! Free Thinker!
Starting to live up to your name, at last!
Respec' !
It's surprising someone as smart as you doesn't get sarcasm.
Atheism - a non-prophet organisation
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Joliet You really don't get the rules. Xians are allowed to believe something to be literally true, but the details (i.e. the verifiable bits) are just figurative. So 'the son of man will come' is truth and 'like lightning shining from the east to west' is figurative flowery language. This process is entirely consistent cherry picking from the book. You really have to pay attention at the back
Atheism - a non-prophet organisation
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quote: Originally posted by free_thinker:
Joliet
You really don't get the rules.
Xians are allowed to believe something to be literally true, but the details (i.e. the verifiable bits) are just figurative.
So 'the son of man will come' is truth and 'like lightning shining from the east to west' is figurative flowery language.
This process is entirely consistent cherry picking from the book.
Ah, but they claim they don't cherry pick. After all that would be dishonest, wouldn't it? quote: You really have to pay attention at the back
OK, I promise I'll try harder in future. |
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quote: Originally posted by free_thinker: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
Whoa!! Free Thinker!
Starting to live up to your name, at last!
Respec' !
It's surprising someone as smart as you doesn't get sarcasm.
Far from it, I reckon Wolfie knows fine well it was sarcasm but as usual he just thinks that a glib comment will be enough to get him off the hook of his having to explain the idiocies contained in his "true" book. Unfortunately, we all note that he never really does answer the questions put to him. |
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quote: Originally posted by Joliet: quote: Originally posted by free_thinker:
1. The Son of man has not come (like lightning shining from the east to the west)
He has come and is with us, just not in physical form.
Nope, that doesn't meet the "like lightning shining from the east to the west" criteria which is stipulated. quote:
2. All the tribes of the earth have not seen him coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
Seen in the clouds, he has even been seen in toast.
A few people interpreting clouds or their toast as a vision of god/jesus is hardly "All the tribes". So again this explanation fails. quote:
3. His angels with sounds of a trumpet gathering the elect from all parts of the world haven't yet made their appearance.
I think JW's count don't they
Nope, JWs may be a bit weird but they are still humans not angels so another failure. quote:
4. The sun has not become darkened.
It was pretty gloomy a couple of days back and there was even an eclipse a few yerars ago, surely that counts
Solar eclipses are merely visibly localised events from the Earth the sun itself has never become "darkened". quote:
5. The moon has not failed to give its light.
I have some pics of the most recent lunar eclipse, when the moon was prevented from reflecting light from the sun, which is sort of the same thing thing, given the understanding of people of time time. The big myth book was written for the people of the time you know.
As you correctly state the moon merely reflects the light of the Sun. The light is merely an effect of the moon's albedo it cannot ever live up to this part of the prophecy since it does not have any light of its own. quote:
6. The stars have not fallen from heaven.
I spent a couple of hours in November around midnight on a sun bed watching the Leonid's shower. Clearly they were star-like so that must be true, as any light in the sky is a star as distinct to the sun which is something entirely different.
Even in the days of jesus comets, meteor and other such objects were distinguished from stars. So calling these star-like is really a grasping at straws. Anyway, the quoted verses say "the stars" this implies all stars not just some. If it were only some then it would say "some stars", it doesn't. The prediction was that all this (and more) would happen within a generation. It didn't so the prophecy is false. Mind you, your apologetics seemed to satisfy Wolfie. No surprises there, then.
LOL, didn't you realise that free_thinker was sending up the way Christians clutch at straws to justify their claims for the accuracy of the Bible?
Kat: "Don't take any more of my friend away! Oh enough, enough Big Brother enough, please no more"
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