Since we are approaching Halloween I thought that it would be a good idea to start a thread about the Devil (or any devil-like unseen power of evil)
There are a lot of arguments against the existence of God (and heaven and hell) but what about Unseen Forces of Evil,wether you call them Satan or some other name.
1)Theres plenty of evil,death,disease and disaster in the world - a good argument, for some people, against the existence of god but not against the existence of evil forces.
2)No scientific evidence? - well why would forces of evil want to leave evidence? It's perfectly logical that they would want to cover up their activities.
3)Their motives? - power perhaps or sadism.
4)Religions that believe in Satan also believe in lots of things that are,according to modern science,illogical or unproven - Wouldn't that make them a great tool for 'forces of evil',use religious fanaticism and fear to do your dirty work for you on one hand and make yourself seem so absurd to atheists and scientists (a possible threat?) that they don't believe in you and they convince everyone else not to believe in you.
The theory of evolution and the big bang do nothing to disprove the existence of 'forces of evil' since any such force would be destroyers/corruptors/manipulators rather than creators.
I know it sounds like x-files conspiracy theory nonsense but all I'm saying is that while one might possibly convince me that god does not exist it would be harder to give a convincing argument that 'unseen powers of evil' like Satan do not exist.
Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive!! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!!!
Originally posted by MY HERO!!: I know it sounds like x-files conspiracy theory nonsense but all I'm saying is that while one might possibly convince me that god does not exist it would be harder to give a convincing argument that 'unseen powers of evil' like Satan do not exist.
Really, so you think it possible to prove one supernatural entity does not exist but not another. Try engaging that solitary brain cell before putting fingers to keyboard. If you choose to believe in the "Powers of Evil" then fine but your wacko idea has just as much veracity and proof behind it as those who believe in the "Power of god". Self delusion is a great drug.
I know it sounds like x-files conspiracy theory nonsense but all I'm saying is that while one might possibly convince me that god does not exist it would be harder to give a convincing argument that 'unseen powers of evil' like Satan do not exist.
Satan could not exist without God they are different sides of the same coin. If there were such beings they would need each other to justify their own existance.
Good and Evil exist in the world but they are not borne of supernatural entities they are part of what makes us human. We as human beings are capable of great compassion and kindness but at the same time capable of great cruelty. We make those choices there is no outside force telling us to do it.
God and the devil are just a big cop out. A way of us evading the responsiblity of our own choices and actions.
horrible teenagers knocking on the door with a supply of eggs, wanting money not sweeties and not even bothering to put on a costume, are definitely evil....
Originally posted by MizDemeanour: horrible teenagers knocking on the door with a supply of eggs, wanting money not sweeties and not even bothering to put on a costume, are definitely evil....
No, just greedy and misguided. That has more to do with their upbringing than with the time of year.
# It takes a long time to sharpen a wooden hammer #
Originally posted by MizDemeanour: horrible teenagers knocking on the door with a supply of eggs, wanting money not sweeties and not even bothering to put on a costume, are definitely evil....
Originally posted by Sarum: It's quite sad that the approach of 'hallowe'e'n' makes you think of 'the devil' and 'forces of darkness'.
Yep especially since it was a (non evil) pagan festival long before the christians stole it and made it so.
Lighten up will you. Halloween = monsters(ghosts,vampires,witches,frankensteins monster,DEVIL's,etcetera.) I didn't dress up as a pagan when I was a kid on halloween,it means 'horror' to me the same as it does to millions of other people.
Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive!! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!!!
All evil is subjective, and meaningless outside of human interpretation.
Yeah. I'm sure psychopathic serial killers interpret their actions as not being evil or subjectively,from Adolf Hitlers point of view, he wasn't evil but thats what nutcases are bound to think. 'meaningless outside of human interpretation?' are you telling me that a dog that is tortured doesn't consider its torturers evil?
Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive!! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!!!
Satan could not exist without God they are different sides of the same coin.
No they are not. An unseen,powerful and intelligent malevolent force could exist in a world where the universe was created by the big bang and human life arose through evolution - just substitute the word 'Extra-terrestrial' for Satan.
Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive!! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound!!!
Originally posted by Joobs: Really, so you think it possible to prove one supernatural entity does not exist but not another. Try engaging that solitary brain cell before putting fingers to keyboard. If you choose to believe in the "Powers of Evil" then fine but your wacko idea has just as much veracity and proof behind it as those who believe in the "Power of god". Self delusion is a great drug.
1)I didn't say it was a supernatural entity. 2)I said it would be harder but not impossible because of the reasons given in my opening post? How would you disprove the existence of a being(s) if that being(s) desires to stay hidden as one would assume 'powers of evil' might. 3)I never said that I believed in "Powers of Evil", I said that,hypothetically,if I did, I think it would be harder to make a convincing argument against their existence.
I may have only one braincell but atleast I have eyes and read a post properly before responding to it.
Originally posted by MY HERO!!: I never said that I believed in "Powers of Evil", I said that,hypothetically,if I did, I think it would be harder to make a convincing argument against their existence.
would it though? i think it would be the same as trying to prove/disprove the existence of an unseen power of good - lets call them god and the devil (or the extraterrestrial if you prefer).
someone could attribute bad things to the ET, but there would be no evidence for this, and you would have to weigh up your version of events against what is already known by science/psychology about human behaviour.
for example, a head injury can destroy the the 'conscience' (usually through damaging centres associated with evaluating the consequences of behaviour and the capacity for an empathic understanding of others), and such a person might do 'evil' things, but the evidence would indicate that was a result of their head injury rather than some unseen power of evil.
so you can attribute *evil* to unseen powers, but the facts are more likely to point towards human circumstances, and in this sense it is no different to the arguments for/against god.
but essentially i agree with TM that *evil* is an entirely human term or construct. we don't say my cat is *evil* for torturing and killing birds that he doesn't want to eat, or that animal packs are *evil* for driving out challengers to the alpha fe/male. all animals compete for power, status, and reproduction: we just have bigger/more complex brains (and more chance of things going wrong in the wiring)and more *inventive* ways of expressing those aims.
Lighten up will you. Halloween = monsters(ghosts,vampires,witches,frankensteins monster,DEVIL's,etcetera.)
LOL! So you celebrate Haloween once a year, yet you show no interest at all in where this featival came from, and want to correct those who inform you otherwise? I suppose you'd like to tell us that Easter = lots of chocolate eggs and cuddly bunny toys. And Christmas = Santa and presents and turkey and copious amounts of alcohol (assuming you're old enough to drink yet of course!)
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I didn't dress up as a pagan when I was a kid on halloween
Lighten up will you. Halloween = monsters(ghosts,vampires,witches,frankensteins monster,DEVIL's,etcetera.) I didn't dress up as a pagan when I was a kid on halloween,it means 'horror' to me the same as it does to millions of other people.
Well, let's see now; I see hallowe'en as a distorted relic of a harmless ancient festival marking the end of the year; You see it as a time for horror, devils, the forces of darkness and evil walking the earth.
So which of us needs to 'lighten up', again?
# It takes a long time to sharpen a wooden hammer #
Originally posted by MY HERO!!: 1)I didn't say it was a supernatural entity.
Fine. So prove its existence.
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2)I said it would be harder but not impossible because of the reasons given in my opening post? How would you disprove the existence of a being(s) if that being(s) desires to stay hidden as one would assume 'powers of evil' might.
I do not postulate the argument and cannot prove a negative. The onus of proof lies with the proposer (you) so put up or shut up.
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3)I never said that I believed in "Powers of Evil", I said that,hypothetically,if I did, I think it would be harder to make a convincing argument against their existence.
Well hypothetically I could say elves or unicorns exist but I don't know of any way to prove this so I don't make myself look a twit by stating such idiocy or asking people to disprove it.
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I may have only one braincell but atleast I have eyes and read a post properly before responding to it.
Really? The very fact that you ask people to disprove rather than, you yourself, proving your argument shows your lack of intellect not my reading skills.
Yeah. I'm sure psychopathic serial killers interpret their actions as not being evil or subjectively,from Adolf Hitlers point of view, he wasn't evil but thats what nutcases are bound to think. 'meaningless outside of human interpretation?'
So that would as TM correctly stated make the assessment subjective. Doh!
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are you telling me that a dog that is tortured doesn't consider its torturers evil?
Yes, the dog may well fear or dislike its treatment and the creature supplying said but I doubt it understands the human concept of evil.
Originally posted by MY HERO!!: I didn't dress up as a pagan when I was a kid on halloween,
So how does a pagan dress then?
Well actually I used to dress up as a catholic priest so I'm pretty sure I wasn't dressed as a pagan but your missing the point which is that ofcourse I associate halloween with evil,devils, monsters etcetera rather than some pre-christian religion - so what,so do most people. I'm not even a christian but I was raised to associate halloween with horror,evil and monsters just as I associate Christmas with Santa Clause and easter with the easter bunny - big deal. <--- perhaps you should tell the designers of these graemlins off because they obviously don't understand the true meaning of halloween either.
Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive!! Able to leap t
