quote:

Originally posted by C.A. Sweeney:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter K.:
This is Peter Kosminsky, the writer and director of Britz. I will be on line immediately after the end of part two, at about 11.15pm on Thursday 1st November, to hear your comments and answer any questions. Thank you in advance for watching.

Pity Dr Sweeney can't spell. Bad PR for Goldsmith's but hardly surprising nowadays when spelling mistakes are not penalized by marks being deducted in GCSE exams or A'Levels.

I had a rare experience of actually learning soemthing tonight and last night, I am a 4o-something acdemic and though that i had open minded views about Islam , partic its position on women, and the so call War on Terror but to your credit this drama challenged nealry all those views, it would not be an over-statement to say that I was both deeply moved and shocked by the programme but can only commend you on the work I would love you to come to Goldsmiths College, U of London where I work to talk about his but unilkely as I am sure you are an unfeasibly busy person . An outstanding and controversially intelligent piece of work and exceptional acting and wonderful score,

quote:

Originally posted by Adzoj:
Hi me again, wow, I am shocked. I lived through NF, BNP and of course now post 9/11.

Why oh why are people saying they will be more wary of muslims, and muslims more uncomfortable.

My grandfather fought for the very freedom we all enjoy, he was a burmese POW...this country is mine, my grandfather helped build it, my dad drove buses and worked hard as am I.

I am british, I am muslim, I am proud of this country, but man i never say I feel wary of Scots after I saw trainspotting...??!!

Well said, mate. The films provoked thought. That can't be bad. Balance is the key. Are the police racist? NO Are SOME police racist? Absolutely. Do British Muslims find the films realistic? NO. Do SOME British Muslims find it realistic? Yes, quite a few. Why would people say they find it realistic? Why would people say it was totally unrealistic? Hmmm.

Top stuff!!! Hit the mark thats for sure but there will be (no doubt) some controversy.

Well written and not only this the cast did a fab job too.

quote:

Originally posted by mhw:

quote:

Originally posted by Occasional Visitor:
I didn't like the monologue at the end blaming everything on the British public for voting in Tony Blair.

I'm white British and have no argument with anyone, but I fear that docu-dramas like "Britz" do little to bring faiths together.

It was powerful, well acted and made me think, but only served to make me more scared of terrorism than I was already......and more wary of muslims.

This is the sort of ignorance that has brought our country to the state it is in today ! I am a white middle class housewife who is horrified by ignorance like this. Don't you know that attitudes like this have brought us to the virtual police state that we live in today, fuelled by the British ignorance and bigotry that a high number of our population, including our own government display. For God's sake (in whatever way you worship him !) isn't time that we all accepted each other and stopped drawing ever larger demarcation lines ? Dramas like Britz, fictional though they are, certainly serve to bring to the non-muslim population of Brtain just what we are doing to ourselves.

That being the case, what can we, the disempowered British thinking people do to bring this madness to an end ? I for one would welcome any suggestions as I am sick and tired of being unable to make a difference !!!!!

I too am a middle class woman and feel exactly as has been expressed here, disempowered. British tolerance has resulted is the virtual air-brushing of us, the English. We were never asked whether we wanted to go to War with Iraq. We were neer asked whether we wanted to find ourselves the lone English speaker in a bus. We were never asked whether we are happy with being regarded by a huge swathe of the population as infidels and murderers of Muslims. Until Muslims start reflecting on the effect their young militants are having on the feelings of the indigenous people of this country, barriers will increase.

quote:

Originally posted by conniemarks:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by C.A. Sweeney:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter K.:
This is Peter Kosminsky, the writer and director of Britz. I will be on line immediately after the end of part two, at about 11.15pm on Thursday 1st November, to hear your comments and answer any questions. Thank you in advance for watching.

I had a rare experience of actually learning soemthing tonight and last night, I am a 4o-something acdemic and though that i had open minded views about Islam , partic its position on women, and the so call War on Terror but to your credit this drama challenged nealry all those views, it would not be an over-statement to say that I was both deeply moved and shocked by the programme but can only commend you on the work An outstanding and controversially intelligent piece of work and exceptional acting and wonderful score,


Lets hope, Dr Carole Anne Sweeney, that you will examine the way that this British Muslim woman is used in this drama to ameliorate the rage of the rest of the British Muslim males, with their contempt for her brother who has 'gone native'. Its merely another twist in the Muslim male's traditional inability to take responsibly for his own situation and to offer the female in sacrifice to that strop. Unless you recognise this and address it you will be doing no service to the progress that the grandmothers of this country have been fighting for decades. The freedom they sought for us was and is something we proudly wish to share will all women. You will encourage the hijab and possibly the niqab, those symbols of male power over women and further insult the dignity of free women everywhere.

If Islam is to gain respect in the 21st C it has to shake off the vice grip of male hegemony, and leave behind the patriarchal sadism that is so endemic to its religious culture.

A chain-smoking French-speaking suicide-bombing recruitment she-Muslim does indeed represent the Great Satan of the West we're all expected to fear and loathe.

quote:

Originally posted by Stereotype:
A chain-smoking French-speaking suicide-bombing recruitment she-Muslim does indeed represent the Great Satan of the West we're all expected to fear and loathe.

Yes indeed, let's unleash even more misogyny.

Quote:

It has nothing to do with Islamic history - its British History. Quick run through: British Empires - India - needs workers for industry - encourage migration to keep Britain running - workers move to Britain - have families - 2nd generation Asians. That is why they have travelled thousand of miles.

-------------------------------------------

Peter, well done. That was one of the best pieces of television I have seen in years. I am an Irish Catholic male and am sympathetic to the plight of Muslims in the UK (however I do not condone the attacking of civilians, it has to be said).

I would like to draw some parallels between the Irish situation and the Pakistani situation:

1) Britain colonised and illegally occupied both Ireland and what is now Pakistan for a long period of history

2) Britain looted both countries for its own ends, e.g. 98% of Ireland was covered in forest, now 2% is (it was used for charcoal for Britain in its industrial revolution). Britain also looted natural resources in what is now India and Pakistan.

3) Britain altered ancient and existing social structures in both Ireland and India/Pakistan.

4) When Britain was finished with both countries, it artificially "partitioned" each, leaving both at war for most of a century later.

5) Britain seems surprised or disenfranchised when it discovers that having hindered economic development in those countries it brutally colonised, many of the inhabitants of those countries follow the Brits home and expect employment in what was the economic parent of their own devastated country.

On the morning of 20th December 1920, The Burning of Cork took place. British auxiliary forces burned Ireland's second city to the ground, causing international uproar. Nobody came to our rescue after this act of terror.

"Terrorism" is in the eye of the beholder. One side says it is at war and that the other is "terrorist". There are two sides to every story. In Britain, Cromwell is a hero. In Ireland, Cromwell is seen in the same light as Hitler or Stalin. The very word "Cromwell" is rarely spoken as the scars of his rape, pillage and torture have barely healed.


To sum up, Britain created its own problems. When Nassim says at the end "You are not innocent", she is referring to Britain as a nation historically, not individual viewers.

Britain colonised half of planet earth. Surely you cannot expect this behaviour to be without problems down the line???

Britain created the alienation of the Irish in the 1980s and 1990s, leading to IRA activism in the British mainland (which I am eager to stress that I did not condone and was wholly ashamed of).

Britain has historically created the alienation of Muslims too and now perpetuates this alienation in a vicious cycle involving reactionary draconian legislation.

We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. But you cannot expect to get your own way for centuries and expect not to have problems as a result.

joey8374 write, "We are all brothers and sisters in humanity. But you cannot expect to get your own way for centuries and expect not to have problems as a result."

Indeed we are brother and sister equal in every way and its time that Muslim religious culture recognised this because, as you quite rightly say, you cannot expect to get your own way for centuries. This is the 21stC and we have to address gender violence as we did racism. Islam cannot enter the 21st C unless and until it relinquishes its gender based power, a problem it shares with Catholicism.

The Ireland situation certainly draws some parallels with the Muslim situation in the U.K. But it appears to me that Ireland seems to ignore this when it suits and wraps itself firmly round the West Wing. Old wounds can soon be forgotten at the economic begging table, it seems.

Like many others I found Britz a compelling drama. Peter K has accurately captured complex feelings of both wanting to be part of society as with Sohail and take action agaisnt feelings of injustice as with Nasima. I also liked the added race story re: Nasima and Jude. A clever example of how the persecuted can also be persecuters. It was very helpful to be informed about control orders especially on women. I do believe based on my personal experiences that many young (ish) muslims can empathise with Nasima's views. I do believe those who adopt a strict set of religious beliefs, values and behaviours of any religion feel they are not accountable to society. This is because they feel justified and will jusitfy their actions whatever they maybe. This to me was a very powerful message that was communicated through Nasima's change from policitical activism to training as a terrorist. Yes her friend's death played a huge part in her decision but she felt justified in her decision. Ofcourse the subtle manipulation from the Islamic society at Uni facilitated her decision. Ultimately most of us can relate to feelings of powerlessness which was expressed extremely well via both Nasima and Sohail. As a consequence of this drama Muslims and non muslims should not feel threatend by each other. Rather we should all appreciate that television is still willing to communicate honest and at times unpalatable stories.

barneyed! You are the only bright person iv come across on this forum. Thank god theres still people like u out there that havent fallen under the spell of political corectness.

quote:

Originally posted by mimsy1:

quote:

Originally posted by Stereotype:
A chain-smoking French-speaking suicide-bombing recruitment she-Muslim does indeed represent the Great Satan of the West we're all expected to fear and loathe.

Yes indeed, let's unleash even more misogyny.

I don't think she was chosen a depiction of reality but for effect. It's drama, at the end of the day. And it was different.

There's been people on this thread that have argued that Britz will inspire a home-grown terrorist. I don't think it'll inspire terrorism anymore than Eastenders will.

The documentary is more at risk from being hijacked by feminists. Get over yourselves. There were greater issues raised by Britz than sexism. Some people.

quote:

Originally posted by SJD2007:

quote:

Originally posted by Ana Li:

quote:

Originally posted by Britzwatcher:
What happened finally to the black boyfriend??

He died. Those men beat him to death because he and the muslim girl wanted to be together. Didn't u watch that bit?
Actually, probably best if you didn't. It made me so upset and angry. I really liked him!

Ana - didn't watch it that good the brother saved him and took him out of the room/cell if you recall. Last seen they were looking for his sister.

HTH

Cheers

Steve

Thought he was last seen at Nas's funeral

I wasn't sure who's point of view it was written from, as it left me feeling as though I should suspect all Muslims of being a suicide bomber!!! Obviously I wont but still it puts the thought there. Also the reasoning behind becoming a suicide bomber was very poor. In fact if it was me I would have turned against my religion as it was Muslims' who killed the boyfriend and stopped her from living the life she wanted with him!

quote:

Originally posted by Haz101:

I don't think she was chosen a depiction of reality but for effect. It's drama, at the end of the day. And it was different.

There's been people on this thread that have argued that Britz will inspire a home-grown terrorist. I don't think it'll inspire terrorism anymore than Eastenders will.

The documentary is more at risk from being hijacked by feminists. Get over yourselves. There were greater issues raised by Britz than sexism. Some people.[/QUOTE]

So it's a drama. And then it's a documentary when it suits your position. I'm sure feminists would not want to hog the general thrust, but there are real issues about the negative portrayals of women in "Britz." Women (I do believe) make up about half the Muslim and indeed watching populations and won't be sidelined by chauvinists like you.

quote:

Originally posted by sianywoo:
I wasn't sure who's point of view it was written from, as it left me feeling as though I should suspect all Muslims of being a suicide bomber!!! Obviously I wont but still it puts the thought there. Also the reasoning behind becoming a suicide bomber was very poor. In fact if it was me I would have turned against my religion as it was Muslims' who killed the boyfriend and stopped her from living the life she wanted with him!

Well, it's not you, is it? Dork.

I agree the reasoning behind her becoming a suicide bomber was unrealistic and quite poor, but well acted anyway. Peter was trying to emphasise how draconian the Control Orders could be without ANY evidence; a political object designed for the protection of the country drove someone to suicide. Britain killed Sobia, the friend. Does this justify the suicide bombing? No.

I have just read a bit more and wanted to add. I agree that Britain did some terrible and unforgivable things in the past, but as a British person, what exactly can I do about it? I did not vote for this government. I think it is a very poor argument to kill more innocent people to compensate for innocent people being killed. Further more many muslim's in Britain also have the right to vote!

I personally am against all war and all killing and if I got killed by a suicide bomber there would be one less person to fight for the anti war cause!

I agree that the control orders are draconian and inhumane and that something needs to be done about them, and fast. But killing people is NOT the answer and it saddens me to hear that people (not you) think it is. The fact that it was well acted makes it seem more real and I am sure is likely to exacurbate the problem. What I am trying to say is that the drama was explaining why lovely people like Nas turn to suicide bombing - this is only likely to make the police and public more suspicous of all Muslim's!

Sadly, this well-meaning and competently made film confuses victim with perpetrator and as such is an example of low-brow liberalism of the woolliest kind.[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for this. It's been a long, tough two and a half years making this show with some very low moments. Your posting gave me the first really good laugh I've had in days. Really got under your skin, didn't it?

We can have lots of views on TV, guys. This is just one of them.[/QUOTE]

"Sadly, this well-meaning and competently made film confuses victim with perpetrator and as such is an example of low-brow liberalism of the woolliest kind. "

I can't agree more with this and possibly being an old male he Peter found it difficult to see through the process he was taking this drama. The female sacrificial offering to the insulted Muslim male. (Is there a bucket for me to be sick in?) The idea that he plays with, the idea that a well educated successful British Muslim female would sacrifice her integrity for terrorism is rather far fetched. More likely she would have addressed the outrageous misogyny that was expressed in the treatment of her friend, if indeed the police are allowed to do such things. Entering the vagina of a female is rape and especially revolting in one who is likely to be a virgin, not for the reason that the male might assume. Rape law here in the UK acknowledges that one can be raped with things other than a penis and by creatures other than men. If indeed this violation was carried out by British police women then they could be charged with rape and they would I assume know this. This also applies to those medics who think they can hide behind medical excuses for this violent intrusion. This violation of her friends human rights is more likely to occur in a non secular religious country than in the UK and I would like to know if this is just a fantasy of Peter's or is it really possible in a UK cell? Any policemen/women out there who could clarify this? Any British Muslim women who have been subjected to this violation of her human rights please speak up, now because I for one will not tolerate this and it would need to be taken up with the police and Ms Chakrabati.

It's astonishing the more one unpicks the deeply expressed misogyny in this drama with violent female suicide bomber, the violent jihad French chain-smoking recruitment woman and the violent female police women rubber gloved rapists.

What problems has this guy Peter got with women?

quote:

To sum up, Britain created its own problems. When Nassim says at the end "You are not innocent", she is referring to Britain as a nation historically, not individual viewers.

That's not how I remember it, and here's someone who seems to agree with me:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/asim_siddiqui/2007/...of_two_siblings.html

'The film tries to make the point that when suicide bombers attack the UK, none of us can claim to be a truly innocent victim, as we support the very same policies that make the lives of some Muslims in this country and abroad a living hell. It is uneasy viewing for all. And what about the children who are blown to pieces? Surely they are innocent? Well, what about the ones in Iraq and Palestine is the heartless reply.'

Anyway, I disagree with your claim that the sins of the fathers should be visited on the sons and daughters. My ancestors were working class and weren't involved in imperialism, I didn't vote for Blair and was against the war in Iraq, but according to the drama, I'm still a legitimate target. Maybe next Mr Kosminsky, who's so keen to understand the motives of terrorists, will next turn his attention to nailbomber David Copeland, and make a drama explaining how he was moved by legitimate concerns about mass immigration and homosexuality to bomb Brick Lane and Soho. After all, as you yourself say, '"Terrorism" is in the eye of the beholder.' Maybe Mr Copeland was just a freedom fighter?

If Muslims have such reason to hate us for historical reasons (which noone can change now) that they can't resist blowing us up, then may I suggest that the only sensible step is to halt any further immigration from Muslim countries. Apparently we're going to be up to 71 million in a decade or two as it is. Mr Kosminsky's ancestral country Poland was involved in the Iraq war too, but strangely enough it has escaped being bombed. Now why on earth would that be, I wonder - answers on a postcard.

Drama or documentary, it still puts fear in people's minds. It is clear from the comments on hear that people in Ireland and all over the world justify killing with very feable excuses. Two negatives do not and never will equal a positive. Killing more people is not and never will be the answer!