Hi Heselbine...surprised to hear from me?

Its been some time since i posted on c4 forums but having read the previous post I felt I should reply.

I find it sad that you think that covering your head/wearing a veil is something you associate with radical islam. may i remind you that islam has existed for longer than alqaeda and other mullahs who spread hate and lies using violence as a means to promote their own selfish agendas.

I have nothing to do with these idiots and neither do countless millions of other muslims who just want to live their lives peacefully.

Ofcourse i also deplore the disgusting way some so called islamic states treat women and the way a lot of men in almost all cultures are serial misogynists. to blame a belief system is oversimplistic.

I would ask you to get in contact with an Afghan woman, if you care so much about their plight and ask her personally how you can help her better her life. also ask her if she is willing to give up her religion and i would guarantee that most women will decline and will probably be insulted at the suggestion.

This has nothing to do with conditioning or brainwashing or level of education, not even to do with their sense of identity. It comes down to what a woman (or man) feels they get from islam. the feeling of oneness witrh the creator and in that respect all of humankind, which is what you get from true islam.

in fact I take it as highly insulting and misogynistic that you take the view that women cant possibly get any source of strength from following islam. its the same claptrap that the same radical mullahs come out with. Allah gave women a soul which means in the MOST IMPORTANT WAY we are equal to men. we are fit to worship Allah and follow our religion.

I am proud to be muslim and not an islamist as you like to label me. I am proud to wear my headscarf because I want to be associated with a religion that gives me so much.


I am also proud to be british and feel this country is very much a part of me having been born here. I find it very upsetting when people say that I should go back to where I came from just because they dont follow the same religion as meor dont have the same colour skin. I see no conflict between being muslim and british. Covering your head was very much a part of this country's heritage too afterall. As another good book which we believe in says "Render unto Ceasar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is Gods"

I felt the Britz film whilst dealt with a lot of good issues especailly the erosion of civil liberties, but at the end just got bogged down with stereotypes and cliches. I didnt identify with any of the characters and found them rather boring and tiresome.

quote:

Originally posted by This is my display name:

quote:

Originally posted by This is my display name:
I have a question for 'Blue eyed beauty', 'Arfan 776655' or 'Ehsaan'.

You all seem to be saying that Islam is a great religion and that people don't understand you.

I want to give you an opportunity to let people understand you better and for you to show what a good muslim would do in this situation.

I would like an answer to this hypothetical question. Really imagine this situation is real.

Lets say you have a child or a younger brother/sister, someone you love very much, perhaps someone you've known since they were a baby.
One day they come to you and say,
'I have realised that I am no longer a muslim. I've talked to people and thought about it and I can't be a hypocrite. It's not for me, I still love you but I can't pretend to be a muslim'
Lets imagine that you try to persuade them to think about it but they say they have made up their mind.

What would you do?

Hi Blue eyed, seeing as you're back I'd be interested in your answer to the above. What would you do in this situation?

Sorry but I cant be bothered to raed through 75 pages of posts but if my daughter or son or brother or sister decided that they no longer wnted to follow islam i would say its up to them its their life and would still love them just the same.

blue eyed beuty and ehs salam how are you im back.

what are people trying to offend muslims by now lol.

is there anyone out there that has intentions to learn?

As Confucius says 'The evil of man is that they like to be the teachers of others'.

RELIGION

The statement from Blue Eyed Beauty

“It's a bit like someone being happy over the fact that their friend has suddenly started supporting the same football team as them because their interests are now the same and they can go to matches together.”

Obviously not a quote from the Qu'ran, but it does raise an important issue.

What do football fans do, they hurl insults at each other, and in extreme cases fight amongst each other.

The human species throughout history has formed tribes, created gods, and religions, and many wars have been fought in their name.

There has been life on the planet Earth for billions of years, long before the human species evolved or was created, or dropped in from another planet or whatever. There is no evidence to suggest that any other species on this planet have any concept of God or Religion.

POLITICS

The situation in the Middle East is very complex, with a long history of wars, both religious and political. The situation is further complicated by the world oil supply/demand situation.

America is the largest consumer of oil on this planet. The American economy was sustained by a plentiful supply of cheap ‘home gown’ oil. America is now becoming more dependent on oil imports from the Middle East. It has been suggested that the American administration invaded Iraq to form bases in the Middle East from which they could gain better leverage on the Middle East oil supplies. With increasing demands for oil from China and India, oil prices are set to escalate. At the present rate of consumption there are known crude oil reserves to last until about 2030, the majority of these reserves lie in Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran.

What will happen when these reserves have been exhausted?

Unfortunately our politicians do not seem to be addressing this problem. Our cities and infrastructure are dependent on some form of motorised transport and little advancement has been made in the use of alternative transport. The oil crisis of 1973 should have been a wake up call to our politicians to start creating solutions, unfortunately all they want is our vote.

The sun machine is coming down, and we're gonna have a party, ha ha ha.

simbanala,

thank you for your contribution. I apologise if I upset you and I just wanted you to understand fully what I said. I am not saying that you or anyone else should not wear hijab. what I am saying is that if a woman excersices her freedom to wear it, I have my freedom to express my attitude, don't you think? for you it is a natural thing, for me it is a sign of following a rather dangerous cult. and if I am interviewing a potential employee, I won't hire a lady with such views. firstly, if she is that (in my view) radical, she will be praying 5 times a day and will require a special room in the office to do that -- I cannot afford that. next she will request to seat separately from men or remove certain pictures/toys from the office because they offend her. she will refuse to go into meetings with males or shake hands. these things may appear too radical for you, but we already know examples like this, all over Britain. secondly, in my opinion, religion is a personal matter and there should be no mentioning of it in any shape or form in the workplace.

I wanted to ask you a couple of questions if I may.

1. why did you decide to wear it? koran/hadith do not require women covering their heads/arms/whatever;
2. AFAIR, according to koran/hadith, both men and women are supposed to dress modestly. currently there is clearly a disbalance, since men are much freeier to dress, don't you think?
2. looking at the photographs from 1950s turkey, watching algerian and moroccan films about wars for independence, I don't see any women wearing headscarves, at least in cities. I don't think young girls used to dress in islamic way in britain or germany 30 years ago either. do you not see a trend where islam is followed in a more radical way nowadays than it was several decades ago? you said "islam has existed for longer than alqaeda and other mullahs who spread hate and lies" but you refuse to see this tendency. and in my view these things are linked, and you, apparently, are a part of this;
3. there are numbers of pakistani-origin muslims who are dressed in a way that has no cultural connection to their native homeland whatsoever. their parent grandparents did not wear that. instead, they dress like people in saudi arabia or remote parts of afghanistan are dressed. can you explain this?

thanks very much in advance for your replies.

quote:

Originally posted by arfan776655:
blue eyed beuty and ehs salam how are you im back.

what are people trying to offend muslims by now lol.

is there anyone out there that has intentions to learn?

Hi Arfan, I'm glad you decided to return!!! The questioning (or should I say moaning?) regarding Islam has got repetitive so the forum has turned boring now. People are moaning about the hijab now. I can't be bothered so I just ignore most of the posts now.
Anyway, how are you? You seem to be very busy nowadays!

quote:

Originally posted by warfaroil:
The statement from Blue Eyed Beauty

“It's a bit like someone being happy over the fact that their friend has suddenly started supporting the same football team as them because their interests are now the same and they can go to matches together.”

Obviously not a quote from the Qu'ran, but it does raise an important issue.

What do football fans do, they hurl insults at each other, and in extreme cases fight amongst each other.

I didn't expect anything more than for you to look at the negative side of a comparison that I had made in a good way.

quote:

Originally posted by trurle:

quote:

How many times when the press and media have been crying out about FREEDOM OF CHOICE, FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, demonising Muslims, saying how strict we are. Well isnt someone who wants to wear want they want also about freedom of expression and freedom of choice, or does this only matter when its against Muslims???

priceless, you are priceless. especially your inability to grasp basic facts and get into other people's shoes. don't you understand that when you dress in islamic way, you associate yourself with islamists? how would you be treated in 1944 Britain if you were wearing an SS tab on the collar or wearing a t-shirt with an american flag in cuba in 1960s? is it that difficult to understand that when I see a woman in black burqa in supermarket here in britain, a thought of "islam is the religion of peace" doesn't necessarily pop into my mind. what I think of is women dressed exactly like that when they took hostages in school in Beslan, killing hundreds of children, or hostage taking in the moscow theatre, or bombing on a rock festival. these were muslim women were wearing black burqas with explosives hidden under the garment. is it so difficult to understand why muslims in the west who willingly put on this kind of dress is looked at with repugnance?
this is a statement saying "I don't care what you think, I will dress as my fellow radicals do". and after all this you dare blaming the western public for victimising muslims? go and do a reality check for a change -- nothing damages islam more than actions of your fellow muslims. and I don't recall peaceful and "integrated" muslims marching on the streets trying to diassociate from the extremists. I wonder why... because quran explicitly states that even a bad muslim is still better than a good infidel. you try to assist the police in counter-terrorism and the ummah will destroy you.

the muslim's obliviousness and inability to look at themselves critically never ceases to amuse and disgust me.

P.S. by the way, I reported that woman to the supermarket's security and asked them to check her. after all, why should they be exempt from CCTV surveillance? if I was wearing a mask, hood or a motorcycle helmet in any public place, I would be stopped and asked to remove them.

turle is not about what people think , good actions are for the sake of allah depending on the persons intention.
and how could you be sure that those people under the burqah were muslims or even women by watching media your believing something. how?
those people could be men they could be non muslims. how do we know how can you judge.
people get a right old kick when they try to offend muslims.

so if tommorow what if your on the news as a rapist for e.g but you were inicent and have no knowledge of it what would you think then.

you dont make sense

no not yet.i am a sinful soul i have intention that inshallah 1 day i will go.



have you done your umrah or hajj.
well your a blessed girl probely have. your a beautiful person at heart may allah grant you success and happiness and what ever you do all put blessings in it inshallah.

hey do you go uni or work?

were are you im getting bored lol

quote:

Originally posted by arfan776655:
were are you im getting bored lol

Lol, little moaner, you did say that you'd come online again at 10.30 so I re-entered the forum at exactly that time!!

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Eyed Beauty:
I haven't done my Hajj yet but I was lucky enough to do an Umrah with my whole family a couple of years ago. It was the most beautiful experience of my life, a moment that I'll never forget and one that I'll cherish forever. I can still remember standing directly in front of the Kabah and touching the black, velvety fabric; as well as travelling to Medina and praying by our prophet's (pbuh) grave. I'm hoping to do my Hajj in the near future, so pray for me.
We have no guarantee of how long we will live so you shouldn't put off doing your Hajj, you should take this step forward as soon as possible. I'm also sinful but who knows, the experience you have over there may encourage you to change your bad ways (if you have any).

I'm a University student and I'm in the final couple of months of my 3-year course.

Yes, I listened to Shaykh Habib Ali's talk and although I found it difficult to hear what he was saying at times, I thought it was brilliant.

My name's Yasmine.

alhamdulillah may allah shower his blessings upon you inshallah make dua for me that i get to do hajj.

yasmine is a beutifull name.

what do you study in uni. watch the denmark video of habib ali's it is amazing.

a reminder for me and yourself and to all muslims

abu bakr may allah be pleased with him narrated that ''whoever does not prepare for his grave is as if though he wants to sail the sea without a ship''

have good intentions in what you do inshallah you will succeed have intentions for going uni, work, eating sleeping etc. intention is very important. that is why imam nawawi has put it as the first hadith of the collection of 40.

inshallah allah will grant you to see the prophet s.a.w. and to be with him and his family in jannah. to drink from kawthar.

may allah grant you the love of the prophet.s.a.w

how are your exams going are you going to ace them. how is merseyside like.
heard allways rains up there. maybe blessed people like you stay there thats why it rains.

have you got it now

quote:

Originally posted by arfan776655:
may allah grant you the love of the prophet.s.a.w

May the Flying Spaghetti Monster touch you with his noodly appendage.

Regards

Milan K
Abbot of the Abbey of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the North West

quote:

Originally posted by Milan K:

quote:

Originally posted by arfan776655:
may allah grant you the love of the prophet.s.a.w

May the Flying Spaghetti Monster touch you with his noodly appendage.

Regards

Milan K
Abbot of the Abbey of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the North West

You deny the existance of the Spining Pizza, you are a non believer, you will surely rot in hell !!!

May Allah,Zen,Pluto and Chaos be with you

I'm afraid of Americans

In reply to trurle

QUOTES
"don't you understand that when you dress in islamic way, you associate yourself with islamists? how would you be treated in 1944 Britain if you were wearing an SS tab on the collar or wearing a t-shirt with an american flag in cuba in 1960s? is it that difficult to understand that when I see a woman in black burqa in supermarket here in britain, a thought of "islam is the religion of peace" doesn't necessarily pop into my mind. what I think of is women dressed exactly like that when they took hostages in school in Beslan, killing hundreds of children, or hostage taking in the moscow theatre, or bombing on a rock festival. these were muslim women were wearing black burqas with explosives hidden under the garment. is it so difficult to understand why muslims in the west who willingly put on this kind of dress is looked at with repugnance?
this is a statement saying "I don't care what you think, I will dress as my fellow radicals do". and after all this you dare blaming the western public for victimising muslims?


the muslim's obliviousness and inability to look at themselves critically never ceases to amuse and disgust me.

...P.S. by the way, I reported that woman to the supermarket's security and asked them to check her. after all, why should they be exempt from CCTV surveillance? if I was wearing a mask, hood or a motorcycle helmet in any public place, I would be stopped and asked to remove them." QUOTES from an earlier post



Trurle,

Let me begin by saying that your behaviour disgusts me as well as some of your above comments and I am sure that it would disgust any decent human being from whatever walk of life. I DO WONDER IF YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT A HIJAB IS???

You say that if someone dresses like an Islamist then they must then be associated with one? What a ridiculous thing to suggest! Since when did women wearing a hijab become Islamists? Have you actually seen an Islamist wearing a hijab or is this the picture that the media propaganda has painted in your head? It is like saying dont shave your head because you will be classed as a thug or dont wear a ruck sack on the train because you are in support of the london bombers. Don't wear too much clothing so that people can see that you have nothing to hide! So basically you want people to stop being who they are, and drop their identity and religious belief because the media propaganda has overwhelmed your brain?
If we live in a free society then why shouldnt we wear what we want, or are u actually saying that British Muslims are not and cannot be British hence they should do as instructed?

Now regarding you saying that you reported a lady for wearing a hijab in a supermarket knowing very well that she had done nothing wrong, refers to a previous post where I made a point about harassment by ignorant people, purposely trying to make life difficult. I bet you wouldnt have reported a white nun? You maybe proud of this action, but I think you should hold your head down in shame!

Can you tell me at which point I have blamed the western public? I HAVE NEVER IN ANY POST BLAMED THE WESTERN PUBLIC, I have blamed unjust laws and those in positions of power. You may not agree because of the difference of skin colour but WE ARE ALSO A PART OF THE WESTERN PUBLIC!!! (I guess you are showing your mind set)

You say that Muslims have an obliviousness and inability to look at themselves critically, which disgusts you. Well let me ask why I should look at myself critically when I have done nothing wrong, mind my own business and make a valuable contribution to British society? If I need to take a look at myself critically then you need to do a thorough critical evaluation with immediate effect as you are in great danger of becoming a narrow minded and ignorant person, but I suspect that it may already be too late!

BRITZ was a brave attempt to touch on what motivates Jihadists. Ostensibly they are motivated by religious or political fervour, but examination of the psyche of someone who chooses to kill indiscriminately would certainly reveal a lot of personal demons.

Discussions are usually along the lines of "muslim extremists are a threat to the west" but a step back might reveal that Islam is so entrenched in its own internal hatreds that the biggest threat is to Islam itself and any danger to the west is merely "fall-out".

I would like to hear a lot more from muslim dramatists about this issue.

I've just finished reading a very interesting book - The Islamist, by Ed Husain. I recommend some of the caliphate-craving muslims on this forum, who have clearly spent too much time with Salafists, Wahhabis or Hizb ut-Tahrir activistsl, give it a read.