quote:

Originally posted by ·Azrael·:Maybe Noah and his family ate the dinosaurs they took along? Yes, that it, a nice juicy T-Rex steak for tea each night with a side of Brontosaurus paté and Triceratops Jerky to snack on!

Hey thats it!! No more speculating as to how the dinosaurs became extinct.
It wasn't a commet impact.
It wasn't Baldrics underpants.
Noah & co ate them.

It's all beginning to make sense now.

quote:

Originally posted by F4Codec:

quote:

Originally posted by ·Azrael·:

450 feet long and 45 feet high. ..*smirk*

Interestingly, the largest ever wooden ships made that we have good details of were about 300feet long. These ships had to use internal steel braces to keep them together, and apparently leaked copiously. These were made in the early 1900's - and were really not very practical despite using pretty modern materials to supplement the construction. The wood technology doesn't scale well.

There is some references to chinese junks of 400ft in length, by 60ft - but not much firm evidence of them.

The easiest way to prove such an ark is viable is to build one of course, which I haven't heard of so far.

In 1984 a man named Ron Wyatt convinced Jim Irwin (a former astronaut that had walked on the moon) and several others to go back to the site discovered in 1959. This new expedition discounted the findings of the 1960 expedition and declared that the formation was indeed Noah's ark. Wyatt made a number of visits to the site and also found some eleven large, flat stones with holes cut through them. Wyatt believed the stones, which weighed from 4 to 10 tons, to be anchor drogues that might have been attached to the ark via ropes running through the holes. The stones are over ten miles from the "ark" formation, leading Wyatt to conjecture that Noah may have cut them loose when he knew he was near a landfall.

Wyatt also brought with him David Fasold, another explorer interested in finding the remains of the ark. Together they probed the formation with metal detectors and ground radar. The most promising things they found were material the looked like petrified wood, and fragments of something that looked like a bracket which the metal detector indicated was metallic, perhaps iron. The results of the ground radar test suggested the object had an internal structure that might be interpreted as rooms..

On close inspection the "wood" seemed to lack growth rings, but some biblical experts point out that the "gopher wood" referred to in the bible has no good translation and gopher wood might be bundles of reed coated with some sticky substance, like pitch, that would hold them together. Fasold believes the ark may have been an overly-large proto-Sumerian-type craft of bundled reeds. This might make sense since it is difficult to build a sea-worthy wooden ship over 300 feet in length.

quote:

Originally posted by ·Azrael·:
OK perhaps a few small dinosaurs.

They were baby dinosaurs.

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:

quote:

Originally posted by F4Codec:

quote:

Originally posted by ·Azrael·:

450 feet long and 45 feet high. ..*smirk*

Interestingly, the largest ever wooden ships made that we have good details of were about 300feet long.

The easiest way to prove such an ark is viable is to build one of course, which I haven't heard of so far.

In 1984 a man named Ron Wyatt convinced Jim Irwin (a former astronaut that had walked on the moon) and several others to go back to the site discovered in 1959. This new expedition discounted the findings of the 1960 expedition and declared that the formation was indeed Noah's ark.

Do you actually bother to check anything out before posting. Even many christian websites denounce the guy as a fraud - That's how believeable he is. Let's look at his "discoveries" (info taken from a christian website).

1. He claims to have found Noah's Ark. Answers in Genesis has written articles showing his claims are false.

2. He claims to have found the Ark of the Covenant in a quarry outside Jerusalem. His pictures of the Ark are blurred so it could be any thing.

http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/ark.htm

What Wyatt probably saw was an ossuary which is a box where bones are placed. Knights in medieval times probably also mistook ossuaries for the Ark of the Covenant.

3. Wyatt claims to have found Sodom and Gomorrah, but what he found was just a geological feature of salt.

4. Wyatt claims to have found Mt Sinai at Jabal al Law as does Bob Cornuke. See the Gold of the Exodus.

5. Wyatt claims to have found where Israel crossed the Red Sea, but there is no proof. He had supposedly planted a wheel in the water.

Unfortunately he died in 1999 so never had time to find the core from the apple Eve gave to Adam or any other great discovery.

What a pity none of his great discoveries have ever been independently verified. Properly researched or placed into Museums for everyone to come and see and be converted to christianity
by the strength of evidence.

Kitty I know you believe but this is a bit much.

quote:

Originally posted by Joobs:
What a pity none of his great discoveries have ever been independently verified. Properly researched or placed into Museums for everyone to come and see and be converted to christianity
by the strength of evidence.

Kitty I know you believe but this is a bit much.

Can anyone explain why people try to perpetrate this kind of scam?

I mean, they only undermine their own case and I assume a real true believer wouldn't want to have to lie?

So what variety of fruitcake are these people?

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:
In 1984 a man named Ron Wyatt

Since I know research isn't your strong point here are some details of Good old Ron.

Ron Wyatt had no formal training in archaeology or in geology, which is a shame since Turkish geologists now believe that the Durupinar site (which he claimed was the Ark) is nothing but a geologic formation.

Ron's formal qualifications were as a nurse anesthetist. (Emminently qualified it seems.)

He was a 7th Day Adventist (a sect based on the "religious visions" of someone who had suffered a head injury). What a surprise he is also one - visionary.

quote:

Originally posted by FireAndBrimstone:
Can anyone explain why people try to perpetrate this kind of scam?

Call me a cynic but could the fact that Ron's research foundation would sell you copies of his books, videos, etc. have any bearing.


Nothing like the lure of gold to bring out the best in man, even christians.

quote:

I mean, they only undermine their own case and I assume a real true believer wouldn't want to have to lie?

So what variety of fruitcake are these people?

Joking aside whilst some are obviously in it for the money there is also the fact that just as in science their obsession with their subject can cloud their judgement and make them see just that little bit more than is really there.

Of course that there is such a large christian community of eager to believe and buy the hype and merchandise without real proof only aids the con men. Most con men and their scam aren't really that convincing. It is the victim's willingness to believe and be conned which really seals the deal.

Theres another thing that neds to be considered. Religion is about FAITH, not proof or evidence. The bible refers in several places to this such asin the letter to the Hebrews and the testimony of Thomas in Johns gospel.

Those that try to use conventional science to "prove" the bible have got their theology fundamentally wrong. They shouldnt NEED proof. After all, religious conversion is the work of the Holy Spirit on the heart of the sinner.

When people like Ted Haggard say that science will prove genesis etc, I just wonder how much "faith" they actually have.

This issue is CRITICAL to the whole debate. Once proof comes in, faith is no longer required.

Science and religion are two mutually exclusive things IMO - they should be kept well separate. Reliigon is about the transcendental, Science is about the material.

The problems arise when you try to use the bible as a science book

Also when religion tried to use its supporters as dangerous, mindlessly obedient slaves to dogma resulting in death and destruction.

quote:

Originally posted by Joobs:

Kitty I know you believe but this is a bit much.

Yes Joobs I believe. After I had posted this, I wanted to delete it, I clicked on the edit/delete icon and got a message saying I did not have acess to edit/delete. I regretted having posted it, but found I couldn't do anything about it. So how do you edit/delete posts?

I have a very simple question for the creationists out there. (now it's not difficult so take your time)
Are you even vaguely worried about bird flu?
A simple Yes or No will suffice.

If you answered yes, then surely that fear is based upon information supplied to you by an evolutionary biologist! These people working in teams spend their lives figuring out how things actually work.

Isn't that better than some crackpot superstitious childish nonsense? Or when it does finally hit will it be God punishing us again?

quote:

Originally posted by Gerin oil:
I have a very simple question for the creationists out there. (now it's not difficult so take your time)
Are you even vaguely worried about bird flu?
A simple Yes or No will suffice.

Answer: No.

Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.

Gerin Oil

Yes, thats a good point re bird flu and science. I am reminded of an item I read about re the earthquake - tsunami a year ago. Its about the girl (10 years old I think?) who saw the sea behaving oddly. She had been hearing about tsunamis in Geography classes a short time before and she knew what was about to happen. She told her parents to warn everyone to get off the beach . They did. They lived.

Now take the religionist alternative, founded on ignorance. You havent a clue wht the sea is up to , soon, the tsunami comes in what do yo do, "oh better pray about it, lift our hands up and talk to the sky - dear god please dont kill me" End result - death

Choose science - choose faith. I know where my money would be

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:

Answer: No.

This is rather fatalistic. Are you saying, if its going to happen, its going to happen, and I'll trust in God to either save me, or if I die its my time?

I'm just interested in your view.

quote:

Originally posted by F4Codec:

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:

Answer: No.

This is rather fatalistic. Are you saying, if its going to happen, its going to happen, and I'll trust in God to either save me, or if I die its my time?

I'm just interested in your view.

Yes, I suppose that sums it up.

I do believe these things were prophesied, as was the situation with Israel, rise of radical Islam, nuclear war etc. Its all in the Bible.

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:
Yes, I suppose that sums it up.

I do believe these things were prophesied, as was the situation with Israel, rise of radical Islam, nuclear war etc. Its all in the Bible.

Thanks, but how far does this extend? Do you look both ways when crossing the road, or just stride out with the same fatalistic attitude?

Is there a boundary where you look out for yourself, and where you pass things over to God?

quote:

Originally posted by F4Codec:

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:
Yes, I suppose that sums it up.

I do believe these things were prophesied, as was the situation with Israel, rise of radical Islam, nuclear war etc. Its all in the Bible.

Thanks, but how far does this extend? Do you look both ways when crossing the road, or just stride out with the same fatalistic attitude?

Is there a boundary where you look out for yourself, and where you pass things over to God?

Yes I look both ways when crossing the road. God expects us to act wisely and be good stewards of all that He has given us. There is a lot in the Bible about wisdom, especially in the Book of Proverbs. Wisdom is not the same as knowledge.

Over all, I acknowledge my life is in His hands.

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:

Yes I look both ways when crossing the road. God expects us to act wisely and be good stewards of all that He has given us. There is a lot in the Bible about wisdom, especially in the Book of Proverbs. Wisdom is not the same as knowledge.

Over all, I acknowledge my life is in His hands.

Well I claim without knowledge, you can't really be very wise. The converse is certainly possible though.

I find your views difficult to understand though. It seems to be, well, almost parasitic in some ways.
If a cure is found for bird flu, you will gladly take it, as that is being wise. However there is little incentive for you to work towards a cure as such, as that may not be Gods will. Bird Flu may be His way of doing something he needs done.
Even if you did attempt to work on a cure, surely all the time at the back of your mind there is the idea that you may possibly be doing something that God doesnt want, interfering with His plan?

Or maybe I've misrepresented things.

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:
Yes I look both ways when crossing the road. God expects us to act wisely and be good stewards of all that He has given us. There is a lot in the Bible about wisdom, especially in the Book of Proverbs. Wisdom is not the same as knowledge.

There was a lot in the bible about women being inferior to men, but we seem to have skipped over that particular piece of wisdom...

quote:

Originally posted by FireAndBrimstone:

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:
Yes I look both ways when crossing the road. God expects us to act wisely and be good stewards of all that He has given us. There is a lot in the Bible about wisdom, especially in the Book of Proverbs. Wisdom is not the same as knowledge.

There was a lot in the bible about women being inferior to men, but we seem to have skipped over that particular piece of wisdom...

No I haven't skipped over it, I have said in my posts why the Bible does not say that. I don't have anything else to say about it.

quote:

Originally posted by F4Codec:

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:

Yes I look both ways when crossing the road. God expects us to act wisely and be good stewards of all that He has given us. There is a lot in the Bible about wisdom, especially in the Book of Proverbs. Wisdom is not the same as knowledge.

Over all, I acknowledge my life is in His hands.

Well I claim without knowledge, you can't really be very wise. The converse is certainly possible though.

I find your views difficult to understand though. It seems to be, well, almost parasitic in some ways.
If a cure is found for bird flu, you will gladly take it, as that is being wise. However there is little incentive for you to work towards a cure as such, as that may not be Gods will. Bird Flu may be His way of doing something he needs done.
Even if you did attempt to work on a cure, surely all the time at the back of your mind there is the idea that you may possibly be doing something that God doesnt want, interfering with His plan?

Or maybe I've misrepresented things.

Sorry I don't understand what you are saying. I don't work towards finding a cure for bird flu because I'm not a scientific researcher. I suspect that some of the people working on it may be Christians though. If that person was not sure whether it was God's will they would pray about it. But I don't think God would be against it. I'm typing on this computer although I don't understand how it works, is this parasitic.

God uses doctors and nurses to heal people.

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:

quote:

Originally posted by FireAndBrimstone:

quote:

Originally posted by angelkittycat:
Yes I look both ways when crossing the road. God expects us to act wisely and be good stewards of all that He has given us. There is a lot in the Bible about wisdom, especially in the Book of Proverbs. Wisdom is not the same as knowledge.

There was a lot in the bible about women being inferior to men, but we seem to have skipped over that particular piece of wisdom...

No I haven't skipped over it, I have said in my posts why the Bible does not say that. I don't have anything else to say about it.

You don't have anything else to say about it because you were give several examples of the bible saying exactly that.

You don't have anything else to say about it because you know were wrong.