The greatest irony about a life without religion having been involved in a Christian community for 20-odd years is that there is no longer any guilt.
'Christianity removes your feelings of guilt'. What nonsense. It piles guilt trip upon guilt trip on top of you and weighs you down with feelings of inadequacy. Those of you who are Christians ask yourself this question: do you have feelings of guilt? Are you letting down your 'God'?
Don't know where you got this quote from - but us Catholics know that it is quite the opposite - we all know that we have our faith to thank for our guilt complexes - even the lapsed ones know this!!!
As above - Guilt is like pain - it serves a purpose - it encourages us to take our hand out of the flame.
Nobody likes pain
Nobody likes feeling guilty
Human beings must be known to be loved; but Divine beings must be loved to be known. Blaise Pascal
all emotions serve a purpose. if you do something for your own ends but then feel gulty, you might not do it again because you didnt like feeling guilty. its a shame Bin Laden doesnt feel guilty for killing masses of civilians. Unfortuantly religion has removed his capacity to feel guilty, as he does things in the name of islam.
Originally posted by Have a Word: "I have become comfortably numb" Gilmour/Waters
Guilt is a bit like pain - it serves a purpose
Except when it is guilt about things which there is no value having guilt about.
You obviously subscribe to a different brand of Christianity from the one I was exposed to. The Roman Catholic church has historically been really good about making catholics feel really guilty about everything up to and including breathing. The Christianity I was part of was 'sold' to me on the basis that I would be freed from my guilt through forgiveness. I thought that was a universal Christian principle, but obviously I'm wrong.
Originally posted by Have a Word: I am sorry about your Dad. I have no answer.
Does it bother you even slightly that you 'have no answer'? Do you not think that if you subscribe to this great religion of yours, then maybe it should have answers for this sort of thing?
That's the problem isn't it - Christianity offers you an answer and then you realise you hadn't asked all the questions...
Originally posted by Have a Word: "I have become comfortably numb" Gilmour/Waters
Guilt is a bit like pain - it serves a purpose
Except when it is guilt about things which there is no value having guilt about.
You obviously subscribe to a different brand of Christianity from the one I was exposed to. The Roman Catholic church has historically been really good about making catholics feel really guilty about everything up to and including breathing. The Christianity I was part of was 'sold' to me on the basis that I would be freed from my guilt through forgiveness. I thought that was a universal Christian principle, but obviously I'm wrong.
If someone forgives you for having wronged them - don't mean you don't still feel guilty
If I truly knew how much God loves me and how limitless is his forgiveness then perhaps I would feel a great release - trouble is I don't
Human beings must be known to be loved; but Divine beings must be loved to be known. Blaise Pascal
Originally posted by Have a Word: I am sorry about your Dad. I have no answer.
Does it bother you even slightly that you 'have no answer'? Do you not think that if you subscribe to this great religion of yours, then maybe it should have answers for this sort of thing?
That's the problem isn't it - Christianity offers you an answer and then you realise you hadn't asked all the questions...
There is a time and a place....
Human beings must be known to be loved; but Divine beings must be loved to be known. Blaise Pascal
Originally posted by imturningjapanese: all emotions serve a purpose. if you do something for your own ends but then feel gulty, you might not do it again because you didnt like feeling guilty. its a shame Bin Laden doesnt feel guilty for killing masses of civilians. Unfortuantly religion has removed his capacity to feel guilty, as he does things in the name of islam.
People can do bad things without knowing it - but such occurances is not restricted to religion. Secular heresies exist alongside religious ones. The secular heresy of utilitarianism - though which means are justified by the intended end in pursuit of "the greatest good"
Becasue of this secular heresy the crew of the Enola Grey probably thought they were doing a good thing
Best destruction of the utilitarian ethic I have ever seen is the film "I Robot"
Human beings must be known to be loved; but Divine beings must be loved to be known. Blaise Pascal
Like the pain my father had when dying from cancer - so intense that he had to be drugged into a stupour to give him relief?
Please PLEASE tell me the purpose of that, O religious one.
InAbsentia this would be the way Muslims would explain the pain and suffering you and your family have endured. I find it very comforting when going through hardships:
Originally posted by Have a Word: I am sorry about your Dad. I have no answer.
Does it bother you even slightly that you 'have no answer'? Do you not think that if you subscribe to this great religion of yours, then maybe it should have answers for this sort of thing?
That's the problem isn't it - Christianity offers you an answer and then you realise you hadn't asked all the questions...
There is a time and a place....
'Being enigmatic' is no substitute for a straightforward answer to a straightforward question.
Going 'ahhh...' everyone time says something you don't know the answer to doesn't make you look mystical and wise.
Originally posted by Have a Word: "Christianity removes your feelings of guilt'."
Don't know where you got this quote from - but us Catholics know that it is quite the opposite - we all know that we have our faith to thank for our guilt complexes - even the lapsed ones know this!!!
As above - Guilt is like pain - it serves a purpose - it encourages us to take our hand out of the flame.
Nobody likes pain
Nobody likes feeling guilty
But don't Catholics just pop along to confession and have to say three Hail Marys to be rid of any guilt?
Originally posted by MizDemeanour: guilt is a useless emotion and serves no purpose....
shame and remorse may have a function in helping us to manage our behaviour
I never feel guilty. I only ever feel remorse if i have caused pain to someone i care about or someone innocent. Since it's not in my nature to do either of those i rarely feel remorsefull about anything. Last time i felt remorse was three years ago. The reason for this is because i can't feel guilty about the things i do, it serves very little purpose. I think about the reprocussions of my actions before i do them, any negative reprocussion after that time i have already thought about so i can't feel guilty, i still went ahead and did it anyway. It's important to believe in cause and effect, it's important to weigh these things because it's about responsibility. IMHO guilt is just pawning off responsibility, by giving yourself a mental thrashing you justify your behaviour. When in fact you actually don't at all. It detracts from a persons actions.
IMHO not enough religious people accept the responsibility for their actions. I refuse to believe that some acts such as Rape, Murder etc can be "forgiven" at the drop of a hat just because someone said they're sorry and they believe in a diety. If i'm wrong and there is a heaven and a hell then i wouldn't even want to be in heaven if heaven is full of people like that.
Originally posted by Curls: IMHO guilt is just pawning off responsibility, by giving yourself a mental thrashing you justify your behaviour. When in fact you actually don't at all. It detracts from a persons actions.
agree. guilt is a selfish emotion, not one concerned with the effect we have on others.
Originally posted by Curls: IMHO guilt is just pawning off responsibility, by giving yourself a mental thrashing you justify your behaviour. When in fact you actually don't at all. It detracts from a persons actions.
agree. guilt is a selfish emotion, not one concerned with the effect we have on others.
Could not disagree more. Guilt, for me, is something I try to avoid because it creates anxiety, and the best way to avoid it is by doing nothing wrong.
Originally posted by kevlar: Guilt, for me, is something I try to avoid because it creates anxiety, and the best way to avoid it is by doing nothing wrong.
I think guilt is a nonsense. Of course we are guilty for our actions but do we feel guilt? I'd say no, we may experience regret, sorrow, happiness etc. from the actions we commit and are guilty of but in itself guilt is not strictly an emotion.
When all is said and done our actions once taken cannot be changed so our guilt is useless it is neither good nor bad just a definition of our having chosen a particular action.
Originally posted by Curls: IMHO guilt is just pawning off responsibility, by giving yourself a mental thrashing you justify your behaviour. When in fact you actually don't at all. It detracts from a persons actions.
agree. guilt is a selfish emotion, not one concerned with the effect we have on others.
Oh yeah it is VERY selfish, it's completely self indulgent.
"Oh I feel bad for what i've done to THEM"
Completely detracts from the actions, making the reprocussions less important. It doesn't actually do anything, doesn't make people pro active to make up for what they've done. Just a clumbsy thing really.
Originally posted by Curls: IMHO guilt is just pawning off responsibility, by giving yourself a mental thrashing you justify your behaviour. When in fact you actually don't at all. It detracts from a persons actions.
agree. guilt is a selfish emotion, not one concerned with the effect we have on others.
Could not disagree more. Guilt, for me, is something I try to avoid because it creates anxiety, and the best way to avoid it is by doing nothing wrong.
you can't avoid doing things 'wrong' in life, its all in the perspective.
guilt is just a self indulgent discussion with oneself about oneself.
remorse is the thing that really takes account of the effect of your actions on others.
