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TV people make a TV programme to represent whatever they choose. The makers of this documentary have chosen to focus on groups of people who do not represent the Muay Thai community. The documentary did not demonstrate the spiritual way of life which teaches us of honour and respect for our parents and teachers as well as those we fight which is integral to the core teaching of this ancient martial art. NO respectable Muay Thai federation was represented here as no respect was shown at the start and end of the fight. This was merely an attempt to shock the public and generate viewing potential – the makers clearly had an agenda and unfortunately lacked the skill to produce a truly thought provoking documentary which would have been multi faceted and have shown a broader aspects of Muay Thai – in a good Muay Thai gym you will find a range of people from all walks of life from housewives to lawyers with the aim of improving body mind and spirit – pushy parents are found in all sports ever watched football on a Sunday??
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Everyone knows what kick bocking is about why watch it if it left you so disturbed these kids are not there to tickle each other! I have 2 sons age 4 & 10 who attend these classes, i dont have a problem with it my kids dont either but they have not had an organised fight yet. these kids are fighting in a controlled enviroment and if needed will and do use this as a means of self defence outside the ring, my son recently got hit at school and received a cracked rib but he didnt use his kick boxing he walked away and a lot of this is down to his trainer who teaches these kids to give respect to the martial arts shows them discipline,confidence and the ability to defend their selves, my 4 year old son has adhd and i found kick boxing a great way to curb his temper we only have a few outbursts a week now instead of every day. The parents were way over the top but that is not the kids fault. also what the programme failed to show was a club that held a class because my kids do more traing with bags than actual sparring but when they do spar it is very controlled. what you have seen tonight does not represent all clubs and yes my kids have a licence.
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quote: Originally posted by coxm:
As I have said I am totally appalled by what I have just seen - however, having been involved in coaching children in sport for many years we should not single out kick boxing - unfortunately in all sports parents live their dreams through their children and this is the crime - not that of kick boxing.
This was not the sport of Kick Boxing! |
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This is a message for tha Asian father in the documentary: I felt that you were different from the other parents in that you weren't sadistic in the way the others were. But it is wrong to live your life through your child. Your child is his own person. He seems like a sweet kid and I felt sorry for him with all the eczema stuff. But the way to give him real strenght of character is not to force him into violence- real strength is in knowledge, kindness, acceptance. This all make me sounds like a wooly liberal but it's also true. Please let your poor boy find hisown way in life- do not project on him all your frustrations, anger and disappointment.
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quote: Originally posted by louisevixen: quote: Originally posted by laugar:
how many of you loving parents will be on the football pitch sunday afternoon screaming abuse at the referee and the other teams coaches / players whilst you're little angel who really wants to win the league plays for the love of playing football, and thinks he's playing becasue you want him to be brilliant at football, and not because you didnt get the chance to be brilliant when you were younger!!!
Channel 4, please make programs about other childrens sports please!!
I agree totally! i'm also an FA qualified childrens football coach and see the same if not worse language /behaviour at the football matches.Some parents overstep the mark but please do not single out thai boxing!
Football is NOT BEATING THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ANOTHER CHILD!!!!!!!! HOW CAN YOU COMPARE IT? |
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how many of you have sent your children to karate / taekwondo / kungfu / ju jitsu etc?
what do you think they do in there? You are sending them to a contact sport, they will get bruises, they will get nose bleed, black eyes! Its par for the course!
Has your child come home with a scraped knee playing football? A stud mark up his leg playing rugby? A broken finger? A black eye?
Rugby union allows 14 people to hit each other chasing an odd shaped pig skin. The point of the game is to stop the other player by knocing him to the ground? Is that not barbaric behaviour? Nope, its a sport, a sport which has mega media coverage which we all know about!
They will learn respect, discipline and become fantastic well rounded individuals!
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quote: Originally posted by theboffs:
I'm divided - yes it's violent from an outside point of view but I've seen and heard worse behaviour on the streets virtually everywhere I've lived. Any form of Martial Arts should be used to train the mind as much as the body. What I would say is that Conner's Mum - you need to teach him to respect what he's learned; from what I've seen tonight, he's little more than a bully. Thai's parent's? Your son seems well balanced - he's aware of what he can do without abusing his talent. Dad - I think you were a bit gentle overall but far too quick to put him down at the side of the ring. Encourage - don't put him down. Mum - you are scary! You seem too intense on Thai causing harm to his opponents. Thai - keep going, despite yoour age, you seem totally aware of the responsibility and respect that any martial art deserves. You are perfectly balanced between your dad's insight and your mum's aggressiveness whilst still seeming to be a "normal" 10yr old boy outside the ring - that's exactly how it should be. Have more confidence, know when it's right to fight and when it's not but don't expect everybody to follow the same ethos!
How can you say that he is a normal 10 year old outside the ring when he's not even allowed to "play" with his friends 'cos he has to train all hours. It's far from "normal". |
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A couple of things -
- The behaviour of the parents, just like at any sport. Go to a 10 yr olds football match and see parents swearing at opponents, refferees and supporters. Threating to beat up the ref etc, so nothing new there.
- Who said they are doing it for the money, have a laugh, show me one Thai Boxer who can afford a Bently, they get £100s not millions per fight, so wrong
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I think you will find that as adults we can pick out the bits of the programme that are edited to show things in a bad light, I agree with children doing martial arts or any other sport as a hobby but to have a minority of parents baying the kids at the side of the ring is wrong, if the profile of the sport is to be improved then the out of control parents shouting the kind of encouragement!! shown should be removed from the side of the ring quote: Originally posted by laugar:
Well done channel 4, you have helped to destroy martial arts as a practice. You did not try to interview any of the officials or other coaches or indeed other families participatingin in the sport to get a fuller picture of what goes on.
This program was aimed at people who have no clue about what goes on in the sport martial art world.
There is nothing but total control when children fight each other. They have so much padding on its virtually impossible to hurt each other.
Its clear from the clueless replies to the shocked masses that your job is done!
Its also clear that you too are clueless about what goes on. The editor has done a good job there on turning what goes on into barbaric fighting!
Well chosen families too! You know how to pick em!
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quote: Originally posted by michaeljrox: quote: Originally posted by laugar:
Well done channel 4, you have helped to destroy martial arts as a practice. You did not try to interview any of the officials or other coaches or indeed other families participatingin in the sport to get a fuller picture of what goes on.
This program was aimed at people who have no clue about what goes on in the sport martial art world.
There is nothing but total control when children fight each other. They have so much padding on its virtually impossible to hurt each other.
Its clear from the clueless replies to the shocked masses that your job is done!
Its also clear that you too are clueless about what goes on. The editor has done a good job there on turning what goes on into barbaric fighting!
Well chosen families too! You know how to pick em!
Agree!
I think you are missing the point it is not an attack on martial arts. You saw children in absolute fear and dread of what was about to happen - surely this cannot be right. I have experienced this sort of fear in such sports as football, swimming etc etc and it is not the sport we are knocking but the parents who behave in this way. |
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Kids getting fit great! But being so violent and all because their parents didnt do it when they were younger... not on in my opinion.
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quote: Originally posted by anglohellene:
This is a message for tha Asian father in the documentary: I felt that you were different from the other parents in that you weren't sadistic in the way the others were. But it is wrong to live your life through your child. Your child is his own person. He seems like a sweet kid and I felt sorry for him with all the eczema stuff. But the way to give him real strenght of character is not to force him into violence- real strength is in knowledge, kindness, acceptance. This all make me sounds like a wooly liberal but it's also true. Please let your poor boy find hisown way in life- do not project on him all your frustrations, anger and disappointment.
the guy was just a proud father, i saw a young lad who loved muay thai who was upset when he didnt win. |
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How comes no one has picked up on the swearing aimed at the 10 year olds? Is this ok to teach kids? No wonder there is a lack of respect now days.
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quote: Originally posted by jennifer27: quote: Originally posted by louisevixen: quote: Originally posted by laugar:
how many of you loving parents will be on the football pitch sunday afternoon screaming abuse at the referee and the other teams coaches / players whilst you're little angel who really wants to win the league plays for the love of playing football, and thinks he's playing becasue you want him to be brilliant at football, and not because you didnt get the chance to be brilliant when you were younger!!!
Channel 4, please make programs about other childrens sports please!!
I agree totally! i'm also an FA qualified childrens football coach and see the same if not worse language /behaviour at the football matches.Some parents overstep the mark but please do not single out thai boxing!
Football is NOT BEATING THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ANOTHER CHILD!!!!!!!! HOW CAN YOU COMPARE IT?
Its not about all about the parents language! Its about the children been subjected to violence, learning to think with their fists and not their minds! |
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These parents need to get a reality check and stop treating their kids like pit bulls. The people who sit outside of the ring also need to take a step back and look at themselves. I am involved in coaching mini rugby and would not allow any child to play this contact sport without the appropriate protection, head gear is paramount.
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quote: Originally posted by Ronamatroid:
How comes no one has picked up on the swearing aimed at the 10 year olds? Is this ok to teach kids? No wonder there is a lack of respect now days.
i think you will find i have commented on this twice, this is no different to any other sport where parents behave inapropiartly, wouldnt have happened at any Muay Thai event i have attended. |
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It was a sad and sorry hour of my life. I found myself trying to get into the mindset of these parents, wondering if i could allow my nearly 5 year old daughter to participate in something so ridiculus and incredibly wrong. It's not the sport, what people want to do to themselves once they're old enough to make their own decisions is down to them. But these are babies, not tools of our own self importance! It's just so bloody dangerous. These childrens brains and bodies are still growing and developing, and there is all to much pressure on winning. Encourage education rather than aggression, which is not healthy in kids so young. I would urge all the parents in this film to consider the possible physical and psychological end to their childrens stories.
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Children should not be paticipating in these activities at such a young age all the parents that do allow them should have a re-think. The instructors that have posted 4 and 6 is still far to young to introduce kids to fighting each other wether in self defence or not.
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quote: Originally posted by gecko1001: quote: Originally posted by ja32:
i have a 3 year old son that has just started kickboxing, he enjoys going and it is a game to him were he can learn to defend himself when he is older but i would never let him get in a ring and fight other kids. he can learn the moves use the pads and gain the disaplin. i would NEVER sign to say that it is ok for my son to go in a ring and maybe DIE. this program was sick and the parents need to let there kids have their childhood back
3 seems a tad too young, in our club you have to be 6 to start.
the kids have a half hr lesson were they learn to warm up propley and and kick over a rope or kick the crocadile (two pads put together).it is a game and nothing more. |
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quote: Originally posted by scottpea: quote: Originally posted by Grushka:
This is about young children, too young to choose for themselves, being forced to fight in a melee of barbaric shouting and screaming.
I agree in principle with you comment but please be carefull not to assume that Thai Boxing is about abusing children by making them fight. THIS PROG COULD HAVE EASILY BEEN ABOUT FOOTBALL, RUGBY, BALLET, OR ANY OTHER SPORT/ACTIVITY CHILDREN TAKE PART IN. Its the parents of the children involved who need to be critisized not the sport of thai boxing.
Agree completely ive played rugby also since i was 6 and was always encouraged but never forced i wont say it doesn't happen bcause i know it does in all sport, but it is in the minority of parents, who've probably failed themselves at something. |
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Grushka - I'd just like to say Maggy did not state she agreed with the potrayal in this show but that to learnt he sport properly is ok - in proper conditions with proper rules and trainers. The children win their fights by way of scoring points not by "batterin each other" -unfortunately the families used in this documentary do not seem aware of this fact nor has this documentary shown that the children are taught respect and discipline, not to blantantly beat up other children - clearly these people have a lot to learn!!! quote: Originally posted by Grushka:
The documentary was very well made and gave an insight into something I had no idea about.
It was shocking and I am dismayed by the parents, including Maggy who commented above, who think that this is OK.
It is not like football or rugby. It is teaching children to be aggressive and to win by "battering" their opponent physically.
As far as I could see, there is no difference between this and dogfighting. Only, people put their children at risk for what they think is a sport. It isn't a sport, the children don't really have a choice. They are at the mercy of parents who don't understand what the pecking order in a family does to a child.
These children should be placed in care for their own protection
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quote: Originally posted by Jessie james:
How can you say that he is a normal 10 year old outside the ring when he's not even allowed to "play" with his friends 'cos he has to train all hours. It's far from "normal".
Yep I agree, even though kids need to train like all those who engage in sport, it has to be balanced and that means not living the sport 24/7 |
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quote: Originally posted by michaeljrox: quote: Originally posted by laugar:
Well done channel 4, you have helped to destroy martial arts as a practice. You did not try to interview any of the officials or other coaches or indeed other families participatingin in the sport to get a fuller picture of what goes on.
This program was aimed at people who have no clue about what goes on in the sport martial art world.
There is nothing but total control when children fight each other. They have so much padding on its virtually impossible to hurt each other.
Its clear from the clueless replies to the shocked masses that your job is done!
Its also clear that you too are clueless about what goes on. The editor has done a good job there on turning what goes on into barbaric fighting!
Well chosen families too! You know how to pick em!
Agree!
I agree with your comments, however as a parent I also agree with many of the other comments on here. The parents shown on tonights programme, seemed unbalanced as are many parents when it comes to their children in various competitions. My now grown up daughters have both been involved in Tai Kwon Do and competitive horse competitions, if their teacher/trainer felt they were not ready at any time to compete they would would not be entered, regardless of my feelings, not that I would ever had not argued with them. My daughter withdrew from Tai Kwon Do when her instructor wanted her to compete and she didn't want to. Channel 4 have sparked another debate and that is what they are good at. |
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