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quote: Originally posted by coxm: quote: Originally posted by laugar: quote: Originally posted by theboffs: quote: Originally posted by laugar: quote: Originally posted by Jessie james:
How can you say that he is a normal 10 year old outside the ring when he's not even allowed to "play" with his friends 'cos he has to train all hours. It's far from "normal".
I used to swim when I was younger. Many of us had to get up at 6am to swim for 2 hours before school, then swim in the evenings. The people who carry this on are the people you scream and shout for at the olympics. The people who put the hours in are the people you cheer for when they win the premier league. The people you jump for are the people who bring home the world cup. These are the people we shout for, the people who train hard for something they love and cherish! Respect it!
I've just spent 10mins trying to say pretty much what you've summed up in a couple of sentences. Spot On! That is exactly what I was trying to say
why thankyou, I have had a week of frustration building up for this program ever since I read an article in a tabloid! Theyu baited me good and proper! ha ha! typical tabloid! 
Can I ask did you ever cry before you went swimming?
(from the Boffs) OK, this is going to show why I agree with the pushy parents bit, why I agree with some of the other comments about the bad language, etc but why I would never prevent a kid such as Thai who shows promise from training as hard as he / she wants. YES - I cried before going swimming for about a year while my Dad was trying to teach me to swim (I used to scream the place down), then I joined a swimming club, swam my first width on the first night, then started training 3 nights and one morning evey week, then a few years later broke the county record for 100m backstroke. It's not that the kids in the documentary were fighting - it was the appalling way in which their parents were trying to improve them! |
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quote: Originally posted by demo-dawn:
My son of 10 trains martial arts and has autism, the disapline has helped him chanel his anger, he has fought in a competition but it was one set up especially for kids, and it was his choice we would never force him to train 24/7 and push him into a sport he didnt want to do.
cage fighting is a sport that should only be competed in by trained adults, putting kids is a cage was one of the worst parts of the documatary for me, it looked barbaric, the promotor should be banned from holding future events, its obvious that the childrens welbeing was not his upmost concern, it was more to do with the lining of his pockets, it was pure child exploitation.
the kids were NOT "cage fighting" as you put it. "cage fighting" or Mixed martial arts fighting as us educated people know it. Is where the aim is to defeat your opponent by knockout or submission. Rules are minimal. This program was about stand up striking were the kids could not hit to the head. The odd punch slipped! And accident! They were fighting Thaiboxing rules in a cage. Very different! |
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Have any of you actually watched Muay Thai done properly? It is an extremely controlled, disciplined sport and teaches an enormous amount of respect. I think Channel 4 has done a great disservice to the sport by showing this representation of it. This is a big part of the Thai culture and is much more than fighting out there. This was a very bad representation of Muay Thai by channel 4. My partner trains at his Muay Thai club and I watch him sometimes. Children also train here. They are not allowed to punch/kick/elbow to the head until they reach a certain age. That ref had no clue! This gives then time to learn how to defend themselves. This program was aimed at people who have no idea about what goes on in the world of Muay thai which is a shame.
There is nothing but complete control in reality. I expect many of the people who object to this are the same people moaning about a lack of discipline in young people, or those who hang around the streets.
Its clear from the replies that channel 4 have achieved what they were aiming for. In reality it is nothing like this.
Channel 4 definitely know how to chose their families too! If they had of shown a couple of middle class families who train in Muay Thai reaction would be different. The families behaviour and the swearing and the living their lives through their kids was clearly Channel 4's intention to make the sport look bad, but in reality it is not like this. Those of you who have watched this should really go along to a local club and watch the children train, I think you may be surprised.
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quote: Originally posted by C4 Culture Ed: This powerful, one-off observational documentary (C4 Thurs 24 April) offers a rare insight into child Thai boxing, one of the fastest growing martial arts in the UK with now over 500 registered clubs teaching this sport. Find out more on the website: http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/cutting_ed...fightclub/index.htmlWhat are your views on the subject?
Yet another brilliant documentary from Channel 4. I was utterly gripped, albeit by revulsion rather than fascination. What a schizophrenic attitude towards violence and child welfare our society still has. I despair! Where is the legislation to protect children of that age from the vicarious aggression and ambition of their parents? I'm sure that supporters of Thai boxing will argue that training and fighting benefits their children, in various empassioned (and frankly predictable) ways but nothing I saw in your documentary will ever convince me that they're right. There are other far less anti-social ways to instil discipline and confidence in a child that won't risk behavioral problems, brain damage, or a prison sentence in later life and the parents on your programme should seek help in finding them. Perhaps they should be guided by the millions of good parents and teachers who struggle these days to bring their children up to believe in the peace-loving, caring values that benefit society. |
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Good for the kids, they realy seemed to enjoy themselves. At least their not causing trouble on the streets or sitting around playing video games. Let them be they're having the time of their lives.
Don't agree with the 5 year old girl being involved though, she didn't seem sure if she wanted it or not, pushed by the parents.
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quote: Originally posted by laugar: quote: Originally posted by coxm: quote: Originally posted by laugar: quote: Originally posted by theboffs: quote: Originally posted by laugar: quote: Originally posted by Jessie james:
How can you say that he is a normal 10 year old outside the ring when he's not even allowed to "play" with his friends 'cos he has to train all hours. It's far from "normal".
I used to swim when I was younger. Many of us had to get up at 6am to swim for 2 hours before school, then swim in the evenings. The people who carry this on are the people you scream and shout for at the olympics. The people who put the hours in are the people you cheer for when they win the premier league. The people you jump for are the people who bring home the world cup. These are the people we shout for, the people who train hard for something they love and cherish! Respect it!
I've just spent 10mins trying to say pretty much what you've summed up in a couple of sentences. Spot On! That is exactly what I was trying to say
why thankyou, I have had a week of frustration building up for this program ever since I read an article in a tabloid! Theyu baited me good and proper! ha ha! typical tabloid!
Can I ask did you ever cry before you went swimming?
nope because i am a laid back person who does not get stressed by pressure! Ask me if I cried when I was made to go to school for the first time ever! People would have thought I was being kidnapped!
Personally I would not compare the two as I believe sport is recreational and good old fashioned education not. |
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quote: Originally posted by coxm: quote: Originally posted by laugar: quote: Originally posted by coxm: quote: Originally posted by laugar: quote: Originally posted by theboffs: quote: Originally posted by laugar: quote: Originally posted by Jessie james:
For god sake the mother signed to say she would not sue if her child was seriously injured or died!!!!!!! that is a disgrace
How can you say that he is a normal 10 year old outside the ring when he's not even allowed to "play" with his friends 'cos he has to train all hours. It's far from "normal".
I used to swim when I was younger. Many of us had to get up at 6am to swim for 2 hours before school, then swim in the evenings. The people who carry this on are the people you scream and shout for at the olympics. The people who put the hours in are the people you cheer for when they win the premier league. The people you jump for are the people who bring home the world cup. These are the people we shout for, the people who train hard for something they love and cherish! Respect it!
I've just spent 10mins trying to say pretty much what you've summed up in a couple of sentences. Spot On! That is exactly what I was trying to say
why thankyou, I have had a week of frustration building up for this program ever since I read an article in a tabloid! Theyu baited me good and proper! ha ha! typical tabloid!
Can I ask did you ever cry before you went swimming?
nope because i am a laid back person who does not get stressed by pressure! Ask me if I cried when I was made to go to school for the first time ever! People would have thought I was being kidnapped!
Personally I would not compare the two as I believe sport is recreational and good old fashioned education not.
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quote: Originally posted by laugar: quote: Originally posted by demo-dawn:
My son of 10 trains martial arts and has autism, the disapline has helped him chanel his anger, he has fought in a competition but it was one set up especially for kids, and it was his choice we would never force him to train 24/7 and push him into a sport he didnt want to do.
cage fighting is a sport that should only be competed in by trained adults, putting kids is a cage was one of the worst parts of the documatary for me, it looked barbaric, the promotor should be banned from holding future events, its obvious that the childrens welbeing was not his upmost concern, it was more to do with the lining of his pockets, it was pure child exploitation.
the kids were NOT "cage fighting" as you put it. "cage fighting" or Mixed martial arts fighting as us educated people know it. Is where the aim is to defeat your opponent by knockout or submission. Rules are minimal. This program was about stand up striking were the kids could not hit to the head. The odd punch slipped! And accident! They were fighting Thaiboxing rules in a cage. Very different!
the kids were in a locked cage, being watched by adults who had been drinking alcahol, on an event advertised as "extreme cage fighting" this is not a place for children, and i am very well educated thank you. have you ever stepped foot in a cage, i have and its a very daunting place to be !!! |
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WELL DONE - FINALY WE GET TO SEE THE YOUNG TALENT THAT IS HIDDEN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS IN THE UK
these are going to be the sports persons of the future. Every one supports Ricky Haton and all other boxers Ali what age do you think he started boxing i can tell you he did not turn 18 and though, " you know what i can box" and did a 6 week crash corse and the village hall.
IF YOU WANT TO BE SUCESSFUL YOU HAVE TO TRAIN AND TRAIN HARD. I ALSO BET ONE THING WHEN THOSE LITTLE GUYS TURN 16 - 19 THEY WONT BE OUT ON OUR STREETS GETTING DRUNK CAUSING CRIMINAL DAMAGE AND PUBLIC ORDER.
SO WHY ARE WE SLATING THIS SHOW SO MUCH??
THANK GOD THEM KIDS HAVE SOMTING TO DO AND NOT OUT ON THE STREET BEING SUBJECTED TO THE DRUNGS AND EVERYTHING ELSE OUT THERE.
CAN YOU HONESTLY SAY YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR CHILDREN ARE? WHAT THEY GET UP TO? AND WHAT THEY WANT OUT OF LIFE?
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This documentary was very negative and did not show any positives of which there are many! Channel 4 have been very clever to edit it in a way which made it look horrific and violent and the parents pushy and nieve!
If this documentary had been about boxing and had included Amir Khan then this forum would be full of positive comments. Muay Thai is no different than Boxing. Juniors box, Amir Khan was boxing from the same age as young Thai and Connor yet the UK fully support him and boxing.
Martial Arts of all varietys promote respect , dicipline and self confidence. All positives for young people.
There is always an untold side of the story and Channel 4 chose to just show 1 side of the story with this and totally sensationalise certain aspects and play down others. The parents in the film were no different than parents at school football/rugby matches.
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lol. the people who are commenting on here about it being abuse to the children seriously have no clue.
channel 4 have very cleverly picked 4 families for this program. Were the parents are totally dominating their childrens lives and trying to live their lives through the children.
You see 2 kids getting upset becasue they lost, somethin that happens to millions of children in every sport in every country.
You saw a little girl at the age of 5 either very nervous or overwhlemed by the shouting and screaming of people. Noe did you look at her face when she got going? She was fine.
IT IS NOT THE SPORT. THIS WAS A PLOY BY CHANNEL 4 TO SHOW DOMINATING PARENTS AND HOW BAD IT IS. THE FACT THAT THE KIDS WERE IN A CONTACT SPORT HELPED IT ALONG.
The fighting did not shock me at all! It was the behaviour of the parents.
At our shows, parents are not allowed that close to the ring, coaches are. Coaches do not get that emotionally charged. It remains civilised. If a parent gets too much they are asked to calm down!
I do agree, the language by the coaches was unacceptable!
I think he just sold himself short of a few new students like that!
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Swimming? football? I am puzzled how this can be compared!
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quote: Originally posted by demo-dawn: quote: Originally posted by laugar: quote: Originally posted by demo-dawn:
My son of 10 trains martial arts and has autism, the disapline has helped him chanel his anger, he has fought in a competition but it was one set up especially for kids, and it was his choice we would never force him to train 24/7 and push him into a sport he didnt want to do.
cage fighting is a sport that should only be competed in by trained adults, putting kids is a cage was one of the worst parts of the documatary for me, it looked barbaric, the promotor should be banned from holding future events, its obvious that the childrens welbeing was not his upmost concern, it was more to do with the lining of his pockets, it was pure child exploitation.
the kids were NOT "cage fighting" as you put it. "cage fighting" or Mixed martial arts fighting as us educated people know it. Is where the aim is to defeat your opponent by knockout or submission. Rules are minimal. This program was about stand up striking were the kids could not hit to the head. The odd punch slipped! And accident! They were fighting Thaiboxing rules in a cage. Very different!
the kids were in a locked cage, being watched by adults who had been drinking alcahol, on an event advertised as "extreme cage fighting" this is not a place for children, and i am very well educated thank you. have you ever stepped foot in a cage, i have and its a very daunting place to be !!!
it is you're right! Extreme cage fighting! I believe this is called advertising at its best! There was nothing extreme about that fight! It was NOT cage fighting! as you put it! |
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Interesting, if slightly sensationalist documentary.
Far more interesting are the replies posted on here. Lots of Daily Mail readers I take it? And aren't the class prejudices coming out thick and fast? Just because a child practices a combat sport that automatically means that they will be terrorising the neighbourhood.
Of the families shown on the programme, I have mixed feelings.
I was disgusted by the Dad forcing his daughter to fight - the fact that he was oblivious to the fact that she was only doing it to please him.
Thai's parents were also shocking in terms of their attitude towards him, I felt they took tough love too far and during the programme they didn't seem to encourage him or give him any positive feedback.
Now, on the other hand, I didn't have a problem with Connor's mother and I thought he seemed like a well-balanced child, particularly how he dealt with losing. His mother did not seem to be forcing him into the sport, just supporting him in something he obviously enjoyed.
And as far as Connor's aspirations to be rich go - I think it is unfair to slate either him or his parents for that. A lot of children and adults would like to be wealthier than they are - otherwise why is the National Lottery so successful?
Also, regarding the parents using the kids as cash cows - I expect that the money they spend on training, transport and equipment far exceeds anything they are likely to make.
There seems to be a sense of scandalism that Connor's mother signed a disclaimer. In our litigious society it would be required for pretty much all activities. I am a mountain biker and at races disclaimers are required, regardless of age, as it was when I used to compete on my horses.
Personally, while it appears that more regulation is needed in the sport, the documentary was designed to stimulate debate. I wouldn't feel informed enough from watching it to comment that thai boxing should be banned etc. because we certainly did not see a balanced view. As others have already said, many parents are pushy, regardless of the sport.
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I do agree that the programme chose its families and portrayed the sport perhaps one sided. Altho I don't like that type of sport my point remains that the behaviour of those particular parents in that show seemed abusive. I would be shocked to hear ANY parent yell at their kids like that in ANY place or sport. I am not saying all parents who have their children do this type of boxing are abusive...but the parenting on this show did leave a lot to be desired. As for the sport... you are always going to have people defend it but violence is violence however you 'dress it up'.
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Glad to see some people see the better side of this and not the negativity what channel 4 want you to see. Channel 4 want people to kick up a stink about it, get people talking about it.
Although you cannot go by what you seen today on channel 4 you coud see how much enjoyment the kids go out of it.
Yes, the 5 year old girl seemed reluctant and I do beleive she has been pushed by her parents, but she was loving it when she was in the ring.
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quote: Originally posted by laugar:
Well done channel 4, you have helped to destroy martial arts as a practice. You did not try to interview any of the officials or other coaches or indeed other families participatingin in the sport to get a fuller picture of what goes on.
This program was aimed at people who have no clue about what goes on in the sport martial art world.
There is nothing but total control when children fight each other. They have so much padding on its virtually impossible to hurt each other.
Its clear from the clueless replies to the shocked masses that your job is done!
Its also clear that you too are clueless about what goes on. The editor has done a good job there on turning what goes on into barbaric fighting!
Well chosen families too! You know how to pick em!
1) There were interviews with the parents of some of the children involved. There was also footage of the parents committing offences under s5 of the public order act 1986 by repeatedly swearing at their own children in public... great parenting skills... they come across so well even when they know they are being filmed...I bet they are much sweeter off camera?!?!?! 2) If there is "total control" then why were there head and neck strikes in a 'No head strking fight'? 3)"They have so much padding on its virtually impossible to hurt each other". In one fight shown a child wore NO head protection...strikes to the head took place on many occasions. 4) The camera shows barbaric fighting between minors who are being encouraged by the people they look up to most in this world ie their parents to punch and kick another minor. The footage shows it. Are you saying these events did not happen as the footage shows? 5) Some of the families shown exhist within the highest levels of this sport at their age groups... LAUGAR, before you think I have no idea what I am talking about I fought sucessfuly as a child and adult in both area and national champs. I now have two young boys who I would not encourage into fighting of any sort unless the situation dictated it. The reasons for this should be obvious to any parent, I do not want to see them hurt and do not want to seen them hurt another child. See sense. |
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[QUOTE
I believe this is called advertising at its best!
QUOTE]
that was one of the worst adverts for an event i have ever seen !!
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What a sad world we live in when people cant see just how very WRONG that doc was
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quote: Originally posted by sian2892: quote: Originally posted by laugar:
Well done channel 4, you have helped to destroy martial arts as a practice. You did not try to interview any of the officials or other coaches or indeed other families participatingin in the sport to get a fuller picture of what goes on.
This program was aimed at people who have no clue about what goes on in the sport martial art world.
There is nothing but total control when children fight each other. They have so much padding on its virtually impossible to hurt each other.
Its clear from the clueless replies to the shocked masses that your job is done!
Its also clear that you too are clueless about what goes on. The editor has done a good job there on turning what goes on into barbaric fighting!
Well chosen families too! You know how to pick em!
1) There were interviews with the parents of some of the children involved. There was also footage of the parents committing offences under s5 of the public order act 1986 by repeatedly swearing at their own children in public... great parenting skills... they come across so well even when they know they are being filmed...I bet they are much sweeter off camera?!?!?! 2) If there is "total control" then why were there head and neck strikes in a 'No head strking fight'? 3)"They have so much padding on its virtually impossible to hurt each other". In one fight shown a child wore NO head protection...strikes to the head took place on many occasions. 4) The camera shows barbaric fighting between minors who are being encouraged by the people they look up to most in this world ie their parents to punch and kick another minor. The footage shows it. Are you saying these events did not happen as the footage shows? 5) Some of the families shown exhist within the highest levels of this sport at their age groups... LAUGAR, before you think I have no idea what I am talking about I fought sucessfuly as a child and adult in both area and national champs. I now have two young boys who I would not encourage into fighting of any sort unless the situation dictated it. The reasons for this should be obvious to any parent, I do not want to see them hurt and do not want to seen them hurt another child. See sense.
have you ever played football and hurt someone by sliding tackling them in the legs, not intentionally. It was an accident. You're not supposed to do that. But the game carried on regardless with a little telling off? - you probably have. incidently, were your area and national champs fought at full contact or was it freestyle / points fighting. Two very different things again. And depending on which one it was will have an effect on why you think like you do. And if im wrong then you must have ad some bad experiences! |
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Anyway. this programme did the sport an injustice, and badly represented the hard work and dedication it takes to compete at any age in thaiboxing. These parents did not represent the ethics or values of the sport. Cutting Edge obviously chose them well.  Respect and discipline are essential within thaiboxing and any child abusing their skills outside the gym is - in any gym worth its salt - banned... it is certainly NEVER encouraged. |
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