Here's an idea. Let's make a list of all the theists who like to make big, bold statements about their religion being true but when challenged they run away or refuse to answer. I'll start it off with:
Originally posted by Joliet: Here's an idea. Let's make a list of all the theists who like to make big, bold statements about their religion being true but when challenged they run away or refuse to answer. I'll start it off with:
Red Jooles Greenbelt Mr Woolf
Feel free to add any others you come across.
Hey, great idea, JoobsJoliet. We could make another list, of atheists who trot out equally outrageous statements, based upon stuff which they've just ripped off of Christian - baiting web sites, and pass the ideas off as though they had done the research themselves!
And we could award special demerit points for every time they resort to cheap insults which have no basis in fact!
What a crazy, wild idea!
What time is it, Mr Woolf? Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
Originally posted by Joliet: Here's an idea. Let's make a list of all the theists who like to make big, bold statements about their religion being true but when challenged they run away or refuse to answer. I'll start it off with:
Red Jooles Greenbelt Mr Woolf
Feel free to add any others you come across.
Hey, great idea, JoobsJoliet. We could make another list, of atheists who trot out equally outrageous statements, based upon stuff which they've just ripped off of Christian - baiting web sites, and pass the ideas off as though they had done the research themselves!
And we could award special demerit points for every time they resort to cheap insults which have no basis in fact!
What a crazy, wild idea!
Kind of a agree, no "halls of shame" needed, based on forum members' beliefs that you don't happen to agree with. Us atheists (well me, anyway) don't want to come over as all 'fundie-mentalist' about our beliefs.
Originally posted by ugetmi: Kind of a agree, no "halls of shame" needed, based on forum members' beliefs that you don't happen to agree with. Us atheists (well me, anyway) don't want to come over as all 'fundie-mentalist' about our beliefs.
Nothing to do with being a fundy. The difference is that we (well myself at least) are willing to argue and defend the statements we make. Theists just like to make grandiose statements but they don't like to defend them - Doubtless because they know they cannot.
Really, figure that out for yourself did you or are you only repeating what another poster said in another thread? Don't assume.
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We could make another list, of atheists who trot out equally outrageous statements,
Care to point one of mine out. Finding your idiotic statements, lies and duplicity isn't hard given the number of times they have been exposed as such, but mine, I think not. Don't assume everyone is as dishonest as yourself - Don't judge everyone by your own low standards.
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based upon stuff which they've just ripped off of Christian - baiting web sites, and pass the ideas off as though they had done the research themselves!
Care to prove that statement? Anyway, even if I had leeched my arguments what would it matter - You still cannot refute them, can you?
Actually I do use some on-line resources such as on-line Bibles etc. but that is merely for quick reference when checking before quoting verse Nos and the like. The arguments I present are invariably my own though doubtless others will have made similar beforehand. Sorry, but it really isn't my problem that you still cling on to a book has contained contained obvious errors since its invention.
Anyway, I notice you still haven't answered Milan Ks reply to your idiotic statement about the second coming being a future event. He very nicely quoted you Jesus' words as given in the book of nonsense which clearly state that the event was to happen within a generation. So what's your excuse for god being 2000 years late?
Originally posted by Joliet: Here's an idea. Let's make a list of all the theists who like to make big, bold statements about their religion being true but when challenged they run away or refuse to answer. I'll start it off with:
Red Jooles Greenbelt Mr Woolf
Feel free to add any others you come across.
He he, i'll take this as a compliment - nice to see you trying to isolate the people who fail to bow the knee to the idol of your (obvious) overburdened intellect!
You've obviously stumbled on something that has escaped many very intelligent people over the centuries... those who believe a Creator and loving God, and yes I believe 100% in Him - He loves you Joliet - I wouldn't come onto this hostile forum unless I cared, and was compelled by someone who loves you far more than me...
Originally posted by RedJooles: He he, i'll take this as a compliment - nice to see you trying to isolate the people who fail to bow the knee to the idol of your (obvious) overburdened intellect!
Wrong, I am not trying to isolate you. I merely wish to expose you and the other trolls/theists for what you are.
Admit it you and Wolfie are no more believers than I am. You quote the odd biblical verse but that's about the extent of it. All you two do is gainsay what others tell you and try to goad people with your inane ToE is wrong arguments.
Greenbelt I am sure is a theist but unfortunately he too refuses to answer many of the questions put to him - wonder why? Does he just not wish to admit that he has no evidence for his statements.
My intellect may well be larger than your own but that may not actually make it very large in the overall intellect ratings. As for it being my idol, I think not. And overburdened is certainly far preferable than under-utilised as yours would appear to be.
Originally posted by RedJooles: He he, i'll take this as a compliment - nice to see you trying to isolate the people who fail to bow the knee to the idol of your (obvious) overburdened intellect!
Wrong, I am not trying to isolate you. I merely wish to expose you and the other trolls/theists for what you are.
Admit it you and Wolfie are no more believers than I am. You quote the odd biblical verse but that's about the extent of it. All you two do is gainsay what others tell you and try to goad people with your inane ToE is wrong arguments.
Greenbelt I am sure is a theist but unfortunately he too refuses to answer many of the questions put to him - wonder why? Does he just not wish to admit that he has no evidence for his statements.
My intellect may well be larger than your own but that may not actually make it very large in the overall intellect ratings. As for it being my idol, I think not. And overburdened is certainly far preferable than under-utilised as yours would appear to be.
At the risk of appearing to rise to your bait, I would just answer the point which you raise about Greenbelt, since he doesn't seem to be around so much at the moment? Surely the whole point of faith is that it's belief in things unseen? Things which you have no evidence of? If I can't find evidence for myself as a believer, then what chance do any of us have to find evidence which would satisfy a rabid Satan sympathist such as yourself?
What time is it, Mr Woolf? Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
Originally posted by Mr Woolf: Surely the whole point of faith is that it's belief in things unseen? Things which you have no evidence of?
I have never argued that it is otherwise.
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If I can't find evidence for myself as a believer, then what chance do any of us have to find evidence which would satisfy a rabid Satan sympathist such as yourself?
If you claim that something is true then you must have proof or evidence to support that statement. If you merely believe in something but know it is based on nothing more than your unevidenced belief then that is fine. So which is it? If the latter then what you believe is as worthwhile and valid as my saying Santa Claus really does exist because I believe in him. Both are of course nonsenses. Looks like you have to make a choice now - Own up or ignore the question and run away.
As for your silly comment regarding Satan. What idiocy of your intellect does that gem of illuminating genius (or is it dunce-hood) spring from. If I don't believe in your myth system and its ludicrous god figure why would I believe in any other supernatural being he supposedly created.
The only people who believe in Satan are those stupid enough to believe in your monotheistic God. The two do go hand in hand. They (and your religion) require each other to justify their own existence. I certainly don't need either.
Well, as a believer - and that belief based upon personal experiences, some of which have been amplified upon on these fora, to cries of "coincidence", etc - then I am required to believe in the other side of the deal, which is the prince of darkness. By my reckoning, all of you atheists, and, indeed, anyone who would tend to ridicule or cast doubt upon the existence of God, or to attempt to instil doubt or feelings of guilt in the mind of any Christian - is - wittingly or unwittingly - doing the will of the evil one. Acting as "The voice of Stan", as it were.
So, you see, whether you believe in him or not, you are doing his dirty work for him.
That's what I reckon; although I don't have conclusive scientific evidence or proof that that is actually the case.
What time is it, Mr Woolf? Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
Originally posted by Mr Woolf: So, you see, whether you believe in him or not, you are doing his dirty work for him.
That's what I reckon; although I don't have conclusive scientific evidence or proof that that is actually the case.
And of course it is just the flip-side of the goddidit coin - satandidit.
Have you never considered how silly the entire Satan concept is? C'mon you have a perfect god who creates flawed creatures (angels) who turn bad (the fallen). They are then responsible for all the bad things which happen. How so, surely the creator is responsible for his creation. Even more so in your god model since by being omniscient he must have foreseen the outcome of his action. He knew when he created the angels that some would fall and he still went ahead and done it - effectively he must have wished to create the evil which they engender. And of course you must also explain how a perfect being can actually create something which is imperfect other than intentionally.
Then of course, to top it all, your perfect, omniscient god does it all again by creating us imperfect humans and then blames all the woes on the backs of his two creations. Seems like your god is guilty of some duplicity yet again. Some questions to consider regarding the fall of man:
Who actually put the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden?
Knowing the outcome of putting that tree there who is responsible for the what ensues?
How could someone in a state of innocence know right from wrong?
If one does not know right from wrong how can one decide or be guilty for choosing wrongly?
As stated in the OT God frequently intercedes and interferes in the affairs of man in order that they do as he wishes. Why then does he not intercede to stop Eve from her actions?
In all of these God is actually the causal factor through either his action or inaction. It is not Satan or Man who is responsible they are merely the scapegoats blamed for what your god actually did.
Originally posted by Mr Woolf: Well, as a believer - and that belief based upon personal experiences, some of which have been amplified upon on these fora, to cries of "coincidence", etc
And that is the false premise upon which your belief (and faulty conclusion) rests. Can you truly and fully rule out coincidence for your personal experiences. Of course you cannot. Therefore your conclusion is flawed since you are ignoring a potential cause for the effect.
It is really simple:
Statement 1. All fish live in the sea Statement 2. Dolphins live in the sea
Conclusion: Dolphins are fish.
Of course the conclusion is wrong because it is relies on Statement 1 having no alternative (A false premise).
If it becomes
1. All fish live in the sea, as do other classes of species, such as mammals.
Then the conclusion must correctly change to:
A Dolphin could be a fish but it could also be some other class of species.
Obviously, the conclusion requires that further evidence is obtained to determine what a Dolphin actually is. We can examine a Dolphin and determine that it does in fact belong to the mammal grouping. So proving what it is.
However, for your belief there is no way to determine further. Your personal experience is all you have, but if one is being honest then coincidence will always remain as a factor to be considered. By choosing spiritual as causal and ignoring coincidental chance you are stating a falsity and self-deluding.
Originally posted by Joliet: Wrong, I am not trying to isolate you. I merely wish to expose you and the other trolls/theists for what you are.
Well I don't think either myself or Woolfie try to hide our beliefs in any way - so why try and post a topic to try and direct attention on us? And what are we? You seem to be under the impression that you have discovered something that has otherwise escaped many intelligent people of faith over the centuries up to today? Many emminent minds have all had a belief in God - people who have studied at Oxford/Cambridge/Yale/Harvard etc, scientists etc etc!
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Admit it you and Wolfie are no more believers than I am. You quote the odd biblical verse but that's about the extent of it. All you two do is gainsay what others tell you and try to goad people with your inane ToE is wrong arguments.
If you'd like us to quote the Bible at you, we can, it may be helpful for you! And yes I do believe in Jesus 100%!
Do you not use others work when you make comment on here; I can't believe that all you say comes from your original research?
We may have a little fun on here, perhaps even goad slightly, but answers to my questions I have received but few!
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My intellect may well be larger than your own but that may not actually make it very large in the overall intellect ratings. As for it being my idol, I think not. And overburdened is certainly far preferable than under-utilised as yours would appear to be.
Proverbs 20:5 Knowing what is right is like deep water in the heart; a wise person draws from the well within.
Originally posted by Mr Woolf: Surely the whole point of faith is that it's belief in things unseen? Things which you have no evidence of? If I can't find evidence for myself as a believer, then what chance do any of us have to find evidence which would satisfy a rabid Satan sympathist such as yourself?
You just sawed off the branch that you and your ridiculous religion were sitting on. Happy landings...
Originally posted by RedJooles: Well I don't think either myself or Woolfie try to hide our beliefs in any way - so why try and post a topic to try and direct attention on us?
You invariably avoid directly answering questions put to you. Or when you do you make some glib and nonsense comment which you then refuse to debate or defend.
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And what are we?
From the example of your posts - Trolls?
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You seem to be under the impression that you have discovered something that has otherwise escaped many intelligent people of faith over the centuries up to today?
No, I am merely being consistent in applying the criteria of evidence and proof. They are the ones who are/were not.
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Many emminent minds have all had a belief in God - people who have studied at Oxford/Cambridge/Yale/Harvard etc, scientists etc etc!
So what. Self delusion and hypocrisy are not traits confined merely to those who are unintelligent. For all the intelligence of those you cite none could, or can, offer any more proof for their belief in the myth than the most stupid and unintelligent of believers. So a false premise. In this context example shows that how one scores on an IQ test means naught.
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If you'd like us to quote the Bible at you, we can, it may be helpful for you! And yes I do believe in Jesus 100%!
I care not whether you quote the bible or not I am more than capable of citing verses which can negate every claim you make for your man-god myth. Since you were unable to offer anything close to an explanation for the problem of freewill what about something easier.
Care to explain those verses in the bible where your perfect Jesus lies, steals and otherwise demonstrates that he is, in fact, just as bigoted and flawed as you or I. Since you claim to know your bible pick any relevant verse yourself and make the apologetic.
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Do you not use others work when you make comment on here; I can't believe that all you say comes from your original research?
Yes, I do refer to other peoples work but I also cross check it to ensure it isn't just some wacky idea devoid of evidence. I check to make sure it has verified evidence to back it up or confirm the conclusion. See the difference.
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but answers to my questions I have received but few!
Don't lie, every question you have posed regarding ToE has been answered - all checkable. That you have refused to accept those answers as valid because they contradict what you have chosen to believe is just gainsaying. As an OP stated to you we can provide the answers but cannot provide the understanding.
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Proverbs 20:5 Knowing what is right is like deep water in the heart; a wise person draws from the well within.
Joliet 1:0 A wise person should test the purity of the water he draws forth lest he become poisoned, not just trust to his belief the water is good.
I acknowledge that I have failed to answer your questions in their resplendent plenitude and humbly take my place in your hall of shame.My theist ramblings are but delusional chaff in the steel wind of your reductive-materialist onslaught. I further submit that Mr Woolf,Red Jooles and myself have forfeited the right to be treated as individuals and deserve to be cast together as scapegoats of your righteous anger and publicly humiliated on this forum.I bow before your electronically-mediated presence and acknowledge that I may be one of those "stupid people" who you so succinctly villify at the conclusion of your posts. As such, I will respect your decree and never argue with you again.
Originally posted by greenbelt: My theist ramblings are but delusional chaff
Unfortunately unless you can provide evidence to substantiate your theist claims then that is the only conclusion which can be drawn.
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scapegoats of your righteous anger
Firstly, it does not anger me, I find people who make grandiose statements which they then refuse to defend or evidence, at best, boring - certainly not worth getting worked up about.
Secondly, you cannot be a scapegoat for something of which you acknowledge (and the record shows) you are actually guilty. You are merely guilty as charged.
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and publicly humiliated on this forum.
If the cap fits. You cannot complain when it is your own inaction or reticence to debate which has caused the accusation for which you feel humiliated.
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I may be one of those "stupid people" who you so succinctly villify at the conclusion of your posts. As such, I will respect your decree and never argue with you again.
You may be, without your input it really is hard to assess. That said, using the exposure of your previous reticence to engage in debate to justify not engaging in future isn't the way or method to prove it is otherwise.
greenbelt is a gent and one of our more able christian posters; and woolfy, well i'm quite fond of woolfy, albeit in a perverse sort of way... ; and red jooles..... well, red jooles.....
; and red jooles..... well, red jooles.....