im just in the middle of a very interesting book about iran. it is about Iran and its current leadership and what people think of it. it includes many varied blog entries of iranians.

its amazing how anti government many Iranians are. especially the richer ones. it shows that no one wants to live in oppression of any form no matter what thier beliefs are. In 1979 the islamic revolution was popular because it offered eqality and non corruption. instead most iranians know that the country is in a far worse state that it ever was under the shah. many Iranians are pro democracy and pro Bush. they have experienced the oppresive nature of islamic society and they dislike it.

The main reason why many Iranians are anti government is because the government have attempted to modernise the country while at the same time imposing ancient backward laws like stoing for aldultury ect. the extra education and internet access that the iranians have been introduced to has only served to make them more pro western and more anti fundamentalist.

In iraq they havent had a horribly oppresive islamic governent for 27 years and so they see it as a legitimate option for a better society. But Iran proves that in the modern world, islamic states can never become any sort of threat to democracy or freedom. it seems to modernise is to westernise.

My understanding is a little different, that although most Iranians are anit-government and ayatollahs, they are fiercely nationalistic, and hate any unwelcome interferance in their affairs. This tendancy has been underestimated by many, just take a look at the history of the Iran-Iraq war.

The US (or the Great Satan, if you prefer ) is that unwelcome interferance, and hence is not liked, as shown by large turnouts to anti-US rallies. Ahmadinejad is explpoiting this by trying to spin his attempts to bolster Iran's position in the M.E. as a battle between Iran and the US. Of course, not all Iranians are that stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by merlinthewizard:
My understanding is a little different, that although most Iranians are anit-government and ayatollahs, they are fiercely nationalistic, and hate any unwelcome interferance in their affairs. This tendancy has been underestimated by many, just take a look at the history of the Iran-Iraq war.

The US (or the Great Satan, if you prefer ) is that unwelcome interferance, and hence is not liked, as shown by large turnouts to anti-US rallies. Ahmadinejad is explpoiting this by trying to spin his attempts to bolster Iran's position in the M.E. as a battle between Iran and the US. Of course, not all Iranians are that stupid.

Good post.

Of course many Iranians don't like it. Especially the rich. They were fine under the Shah where they were able to enjoy all the secular pleasures their money could afford.

My concern is their bluff might go to far.

Can they really make nuclear weapons?
Even if they could make ten. Will it really make that much of a difference?

We have Dubya who wouldn't mind sending a few missiles down their way.

I read somewhere:
Question: "How far would Israel go in order to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear missiles?"

Answer: "About 2,000 miles."

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Boilersuit:
Of course many Iranians don't like it. Especially the rich. They were fine under the Shah where they were able to enjoy all the secular pleasures their money could afford.

Was messing about on the computer the other night when there was a discussion on Blair and the leadership stuff. As part of that one of the contributors mentioned some recent survey conducted in Arab land where the poll showed that most of them thought of the US as the great satan and the evil empire. However, when asked where they would most like to live almost the same massive majority said the US. What a bunch of numpties.

Sorry, I don't have the actual details of the survey as I hadn't really paying that much attention to the prog.

Irans problem is not how diffcult it is to develop a nuke, that, unfortunately, is quite easy. Any idiot looking at wiki could find out how to do it, and with help from N Korea/Pakistan they will hav the technology to do it.

Their problem is how to do it without the US et al finding out and bombing them sh*tless. then they have to find a way of delivering the bomb. I know Iraq had missiles to reach Israel, but does Iran? Building a nuke small enough (>100kg) to be launched on old Soviet scuds etc is very diffcult. I dont think we need to be too worried that Iran will ever nuke anyone, they just want the international influence. Of course, since they're a bunch of religious head-cases, we don't want to give them that.

Goes to show we have too many head cases in power or those using religion as a cause.

Can't remember the name of the Iranians. They must love the current power vacuum in the Middle-east.

Saddam Hussein claimed to defend Islam.

Dubya claimed that (his) god wanted him to invade Iraq.

President Blair was turning a bit messianic in his speeches there for a while.

Iran will eventually open up democratically but really only from within and without too much overt US interference. The people still remember who toppled their democratically elected government and trained the secret police the Savak. (look them up on the Amnesty International site).

As much as many Iranians despise the clerical dictatorship, they are very nationalistic. The current international crisis only strengthens the current regime and thwarts the weakened reformist movement.

Iran is still a country of very rich and the very poor. There are still more poor and they tend to support the ayatollahs. Ahmenijad was able to get their support with his platform of anti-corruption and improving the lot of the less well off. The nuclear crisis diverts attention away from his govt's failings.

I also strongly recommend reading Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi. A wonderful telling of the Iranian revolution from a child's point of view.

quote:

Originally posted by Joobs:

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Boilersuit:
Of course many Iranians don't like it. Especially the rich. They were fine under the Shah where they were able to enjoy all the secular pleasures their money could afford.

Was messing about on the computer the other night when there was a discussion on Blair and the leadership stuff. As part of that one of the contributors mentioned some recent survey conducted in Arab land where the poll showed that most of them thought of the US as the great satan and the evil empire. However, when asked where they would most like to live almost the same massive majority said the US. What a bunch of numpties.

Sorry, I don't have the actual details of the survey as I hadn't really paying that much attention to the prog.

i dont know where you read that poll but it is crap. most iranians are not numpties. a vast majority support the US and want to live there. a minority see the US as agreat satan because they are very poor and see capitalism and democracy as the enemy, where as the evil regime offers at least something to focus on.

nationalism and islam keep getting confused. Iranians are nationalistic for an age before the islamic republic. as a people they will defend iran but not the islamic republic of iran. of course if we were to invade we would have to do a better job than iraq and actually make an effort to get people on side.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1578720.ece

Read this article today and found it amusing especially with them insisting it's about freedom of expression at the same time shutting down those who oppose the regime.