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quote: Originally posted by AndyT2: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
These other religions are, of course, all started by the Prince of Darkness himself, and perpetuated by his minions, to draw people away from the true path, and into perdition.
Don't you be caught out, will you?
Does that include the ones that were around before christianity? How do we know that the devil didnt start christianity? So, if i was about to die in private and if i was sincere, then i could convert. So, just to get it straight. I can do pretty much what i like to anyone and anything, just as long as i sincerely convert before i die. Thats pretty cool eh! So, in theory, i can murder, rape and pilage (well, as much as you can around london - i mean, who's going to notice) to my hearts content. I can live an evil, immoral and wicked life , but as long as i convert before i die (in a sincere way) then its heaven for me and burning in hell for all those people who lead non christian lives. Now you're talking!
Problem is, you might just get hit by a bus before you get to complete your master plan by "sincerely" repenting on your death bed: Or, of course, the great trumpet call might sound, completely unexpectedly (As indeed, it is slated to do). Then you'd be knackered.
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
The hole in your argument is that if you genuinely repent of throwing bricks through your neighbour's window, then you just wouldn't do it any more. Repentance is more than just asking forgiveness.
You and I both know Mr Woolf that it is in the nature of 'sin' to be repetitive behaviour. This is as true of christians as it is of anyone else. Which is why Jesus mentions the 'seventy times seven' principle. Are you seriously suggesting to me that there is nothing in your life which you do not do, repent of and then do again? Pull the other one!
- Proud to be 50% banana -
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: Problem is, you might just get hit by a bus before you get to complete your master plan by "sincerely" repenting on your death bed: Or, of course, the great trumpet call might sound, completely unexpectedly (As indeed, it is slated to do).
Then you'd be knackered.
OK, given that most people are not run over by a bus or killed by other similar sudden means, the chances are that we will have a chance to repent. Given that 2000 years have gone by, the chances of the trumpet sounding right now are slender. On these odds, we should do what AndyT2 says. Something in me isn't too keen on some of it though - it's almost like I've got some sort of internal moral compass.
- Proud to be 50% banana -
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quote: Originally posted by Heselbine: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
The hole in your argument is that if you genuinely repent of throwing bricks through your neighbour's window, then you just wouldn't do it any more. Repentance is more than just asking forgiveness.
You and I both know Mr Woolf that it is in the nature of 'sin' to be repetitive behaviour. This is as true of christians as it is of anyone else. Which is why Jesus mentions the 'seventy times seven' principle. Are you seriously suggesting to me that there is nothing in your life which you do not do, repent of and then do again? Pull the other one!
You're quite right, I do have such besetting sins: Difference between then and now is that I pray for strength to resist, and generally, I do it less often than I used to do. Maybe as few as 35 times 7, which is a 50% improvement in anybody's book.
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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quote: Originally posted by Heselbine:
On these odds, we should do what AndyT2 says. Something in me isn't too keen on some of it though - it's almost like I've got some sort of internal moral compass.
That would be your remaining spark of Christianity, Hes.
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: quote: Originally posted by Heselbine:
On these odds, we should do what AndyT2 says. Something in me isn't too keen on some of it though - it's almost like I've got some sort of internal moral compass.
That would be your remaining spark of Christianity, Hes.
I doubt it. I've got one too and I've never been a christian.
"Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." - Charles Bradlaugh.
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
You're quite right, I do have such besetting sins: Difference between then and now is that I pray for strength to resist, and generally, I do it less often than I used to do.
Maybe as few as 35 times 7, which is a 50% improvement in anybody's book.
is that good enough though? for your god i mean. after all if you were very very very bad before  even 50% better might be considerably further down the road to perdition (wherever that might be somewhere off the M25 i expect) than someone like, say, me  |
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quote: Originally posted by miz'd: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
You're quite right, I do have such besetting sins: Difference between then and now is that I pray for strength to resist, and generally, I do it less often than I used to do.
Maybe as few as 35 times 7, which is a 50% improvement in anybody's book.
is that good enough though? for your god i mean. after all if you were very very very bad before even 50% better might be considerably further down the road to perdition (wherever that might be somewhere off the M25 i expect) than someone like, say, me
Believe me, Miz: I was an absolute rotter.
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
Believe me, Miz:
I was an absolute rotter.
oh i believe you. but is being half an absolute rotter enough to get you into heaven? is it not so much the continued sinning that counts as the feeling guilty about it? isn't that a bit...... catholic?  |
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: That would be your remaining spark of Christianity, Hes.
Well, let's test that hypothesis. According this, those furthest from christianity would be the least moral, yes? So how do you explain Sweden, then? And how do you explain that the highest crime rates in the USA are in the bible belt?
- Proud to be 50% banana -
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quote: Originally posted by Heselbine: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: That would be your remaining spark of Christianity, Hes.
Well, let's test that hypothesis. According this, those furthest from christianity would be the least moral, yes? So how do you explain Sweden, then? And how do you explain that the highest crime rates in the USA are in the bible belt?
I think we can do better than that. What about people never exposed to western religions, or those born before jeebus or in prehistory or for that matter monkeys .
Atheism - a non-prophet organisation
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
Very interesting point, again, Andy:
These other religions are, of course, all started by the Prince of Darkness himself, and perpetuated by his minions, to draw people away from the true path, and into perdition.
Don't you be caught out, will you?
So, was the Jewish faith started by Satan then? (You seemed to get side tracked when AndyT2 asked the question.) BTW, exactly which version of Christianity do you believe in? Catholicism? One of the many protestant churches? The orthodox? If it's all based on the bible, which version? I'm currently aware of 21 (in English), how do you know you've got the right one?
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"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas-covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be" D Adams
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quote: Originally posted by free_thinker: quote: Originally posted by Heselbine: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: That would be your remaining spark of Christianity, Hes.
Well, let's test that hypothesis. According this, those furthest from christianity would be the least moral, yes? So how do you explain Sweden, then? And how do you explain that the highest crime rates in the USA are in the bible belt?
I think we can do better than that. What about people never exposed to western religions, or those born before jeebus or in prehistory or for that matter monkeys .
Yet another headline story where the story does not support the headline. A common failing of evolutionary tales.
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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quote: Originally posted by Heselbine: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: That would be your remaining spark of Christianity, Hes.
Well, let's test that hypothesis. According this, those furthest from christianity would be the least moral, yes? So how do you explain Sweden, then? And how do you explain that the highest crime rates in the USA are in the bible belt?
I guess that it's not the Christians who are going out mugging and looting? And swedes, incidentally, don't go around sh@gging quite as often as their popular image would indicate.
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
I guess that it's not the Christians who are going out mugging and looting?.
Indeed, i think they are too busy picketing the funerals of Men killed in Iraq |
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
And swedes, incidentally, don't go around sh@gging quite as often as their popular image would indicate.
how very unchristian of them. |
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
Yet another headline story where the story does not support the headline. A common failing of evolutionary tales.
Indeed, but it seams to me that it goes beyond the headline of "Scientist Finds the Beginnings of Morality in Primate Behavior". The article says: "Given the chance to get food by pulling a chain that would also deliver an electric shock to a companion, rhesus monkeys will starve themselves for several days". If this were a human not a monkey, we would call this behavior moral, not 'the begins of morality'. So, how about making a case rather than just asserting something which is demonstrably false.
Atheism - a non-prophet organisation
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I'm obviously not typing loudly enough. AndyT2 has asked you twice whether all the religions that predate jesus were the work of Satan and I've specifically asked you about Judaism. Perhaps you'd like to respond now? quote: Originally posted by TheCarpenter: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
Very interesting point, again, Andy:
These other religions are, of course, all started by the Prince of Darkness himself, and perpetuated by his minions, to draw people away from the true path, and into perdition.
Don't you be caught out, will you?
So, was the Jewish faith started by Satan then? (You seemed to get side tracked when AndyT2 asked the question.)
---------------
"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas-covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be" D Adams
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quote: Originally posted by TheCarpenter: I'm obviously not typing loudly enough. AndyT2 has asked you twice whether all the religions that predate jesus were the work of Satan and I've specifically asked you about Judaism. Perhaps you'd like to respond now? quote: Originally posted by TheCarpenter: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
Very interesting point, again, Andy:
These other religions are, of course, all started by the Prince of Darkness himself, and perpetuated by his minions, to draw people away from the true path, and into perdition.
Don't you be caught out, will you?
So, was the Jewish faith started by Satan then? (You seemed to get side tracked when AndyT2 asked the question.)
No, sorry: Satan didn't start Judaism. I guess that must have been God. Seems He got a little disillusioned with these people, whom He showered so much love and attention upon, and then opened the Kingdom of Heaven to all believers.
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf: quote: Originally posted by AndyT2: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
I guess that it's not the Christians who are going out mugging and looting?.
Indeed, i think they are too busy picketing the funerals of Men killed in Iraq
No: The greater majority must surely be attacking the families of gay AIDS victims?
And petrol-bombing abortion clinics.
"Without free speech no search for truth is possible... no discovery of truth is useful... Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. The abuse dies in a day, but the denial slays the life of the people, and entombs the hope of the race." - Charles Bradlaugh.
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
No, sorry:
Satan didn't start Judaism.
I guess that must have been God.
Seems He got a little disillusioned with these people, whom He showered so much love and attention upon, and then opened the Kingdom of Heaven to all believers.
Only, he didn't did he? What he did was close down the existing route and open a new one (the only way to god is through Jesus etc, I'm sure you know the quote better than I do). So it's now possible to believe in the "right" (Abrahamic) God, only still to get sent to Hell from not believing in all the bits of him. The first time he got disilliusioned with them, he just killed all of them off (apart from Noah et al, some shower). quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
No: The greater majority must surely be attacking the families of blank blank blank?
Um, I'm sort of guessing (/ blindly hoping) that this is some kind of "joke". Might I suggest this forum is better of without it?
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"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas-covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be" D Adams
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quote: Originally posted by TheCarpenter:
Um, I'm sort of guessing (/ blindly hoping) that this is some kind of "joke". Might I suggest this forum is better of without it?
I think that the original post which started this vein was intended to be sort of "ironic". What's your problem? Are you American?
What time is it, Mr Woolf?
Time to mend your ways, for the end is nigh.
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