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quote: Originally posted by AndyT2:
So,
which religions did satan start then? What about buddhism, surely that can't be of any danger.
?
That amply demonstrates just how much risk mankind is at. If mankind is practicing Buddhism, then it's not practicing Christianity, and it's going to die. And regarding Islam, there really can't be any doubt, surely? God even tells us about it in Genesis. |
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
And regarding Islam, there really can't be any doubt, surely? God even tells us about it in Genesis.
does he, oops, must have missed that. What about the millions who follow it then. What about all the hindus and sikhs etc etc. A bit naughty to let satan have more than half the planets population following other religions. I'd say the smart money would be one one of the others, or is he losing at the moment? |
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quote: Originally posted by AndyT2: quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
And regarding Islam, there really can't be any doubt, surely? God even tells us about it in Genesis.
does he, oops, must have missed that. What about the millions who follow it then. What about all the hindus and sikhs etc etc. A bit naughty to let satan have more than half the planets population following other religions. I'd say the smart money would be one one of the others, or is he losing at the moment?
Well, yes, you might think that, but it does actually say that the path to salvation is strait (Means difficult, not "straight")and narrow. Meanwhile, the path to perdition is comparatively broad and well paved. But at the end of the day, you really want to be on God's team, cos Satan is going to get his heed crushed. And cast into the flaming pit. You really don't want to go there. |
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okay
what about if I am on the international space station when this happens? Then god can't reach me can he. I mean, this end of days stuff plays out on the Earth doesnt it?
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quote: Originally posted by AndyT2:
okay
what about if I am on the international space station when this happens? Then god can't reach me can he. I mean, this end of days stuff plays out on the Earth doesnt it?
If that's true, then technically you wouldn't even need to be on the ISS. You could just do a little jump in the air at the right moment.
- Proud to be 50% banana -
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now that's just being silly.
(but then it is friday afternoon)
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Woolf:
And regarding Islam, there really can't be any doubt, surely? God even tells us about it in Genesis.
Does it, what passage is it? I've found the bit that says if two drunk men turn up and ask to have sex with a stranger you've just let into your house, you should protect them by letting them 'force themselves' upon your (virgin) daughters; and the bit where Lot's family line is protected by incest (strangely not mentioned in The 10 Commandments as one of the great shalt nots); and lots of references to God asking where various people are (either a God who has a great grasp of plot dynamics, or he isn't as omniscient as he's pretending); but I've not found the bit that says if someone comes along after Jesus saying he's a prophet he isn't (unless he is, but then they'll be trumpets etc). quote:
Well, yes, you might think that, but it does actually say that the path to salvation is strait (Means difficult, not "straight")and narrow. Meanwhile, the path to perdition is comparatively broad and well paved.
But at the end of the day, you really want to be on God's team, cos Satan is going to get his heed crushed. And cast into the flaming pit.
You really don't want to go there.
I was joking the first time I mentioned this, but could you explain exactly why God needs these souls for his "battle" with Satan? The odds basically work out as 1 infinitely powerful being (God) versus one finite being (The Devil), odds of God winning 1:1. Adding any (finite) number of souls to The Devil's powerbase changes the odds by exactly nothing. So why go through the whole rigmarole? Besides exactly what is going to happen after God has crushed Satan (with his army of Hindus, Muslims and Jews born after 35AD etc?) Is your God really so vindictive that he's going to destroy all the poor souls who believed in him, but just got the version a bit wrong?
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"The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas-covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be" D Adams
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I'm not sure I can bear much more of all this literalist interpretation of scripture  God is trying to get through to man. Man is trying to understand God and one way this gets expressed is through religion. Over the years man gets better at understanding God which is why there is a "moral progression" from the Old Testament to the New Testament. If you are a Christian you believe that Jesus is the best representation of God that there has been on earth and that this representation was a "reaching out" from God and a "bridge-building" between God and man. Jesus says that "no-one comes to the father except by me". I don't believe this is talking about people fulfilling entry criteria for Christian churches. This is talking about the fundamental reality of what Jesus has done and i see no reason why this reality shouldn't be accessible to those of other religions and none. |
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quote: Originally posted by greenbelt:
Trouble is greenbelt, if you haven't got a literal interpretation, what have you got? How do you draw a line? The answer is you have to rely on your own good sense. And if you're relying on your own good sense, and if you don't have to believe in a literal bible, and if non-christians are going to get into heaven, why did god arrange it this way? How can you be sure of anything if you're sure of nothing?
- Proud to be 50% banana -
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quote: Trouble is greenbelt, if you haven't got a literal interpretation, what have you got? How do you draw a line? The answer is you have to rely on your own good sense.
And if you're relying on your own good sense, and if you don't have to believe in a literal bible, and if non-christians are going to get into heaven, why did god arrange it this way? How can you be sure of anything if you're sure of nothing?
Heselbine - you've asked this question several times now on different threads so it's only reasonable I try and give you an answer! What do you do if you approach any ancient document? - You have to look at it on it's own merits within the cultural context. In the case of the Old Testament and New Testament scriptures you have a series of many books with common themes/threads but written at different times for different purposes. "Good sense" is certainly part of it, or if you want to be more analytical "inductive reasoning" + literary and historical analysis with cross reference to archaeological evidence e.t.c From a Christian point of view an important principle is that of "sublimation". Certain books and passages "trump" others because of their centrality in the overall themes. If you believe that Jesus is the fullest expression of God in the material world then it follows that other parts of scripture have to be viewed through this "lens". There is no way that encouraging war between Israel and her enemies because this will bring on the end times can possibly be squared with "love your enemies", "blessed are the peacemakers" and "love your neighbour as yourself". End times theology is based on the apocalyptic document Revelation. This was written around the time the Jewish temple was destroyed by the Romans and is following a Jewish tradition of capturing events in mythological imagery. It is clearly inappropriate to extrapolate this into theology and produce a teaching that runs counter to Jesus' whole moral outlook - it's not rocket science! |
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quote: How can you be sure of anything if you're sure of nothing?
What can you be really sure of ? Check out Karl Popper on empirical evidence and Goedel's first and second incompleteness theorems and you might find that the foundations of science and mathematics are not as solid as you think. |
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quote: Originally posted by greenbelt: quote: Trouble is greenbelt, if you haven't got a literal interpretation, what have you got? How do you draw a line? The answer is you have to rely on your own good sense.
And if you're relying on your own good sense, and if you don't have to believe in a literal bible, and if non-christians are going to get into heaven, why did god arrange it this way? How can you be sure of anything if you're sure of nothing?
Heselbine - you've asked this question several times now on different threads so it's only reasonable I try and give you an answer! What do you do if you approach any ancient document? - You have to look at it on it's own merits within the cultural context. In the case of the Old Testament and New Testament scriptures you have a series of many books with common themes/threads but written at different times for different purposes. "Good sense" is certainly part of it, or if you want to be more analytical "inductive reasoning" + literary and historical analysis with cross reference to archaeological evidence e.t.c From a Christian point of view an important principle is that of "sublimation". Certain books and passages "trump" others because of their centrality in the overall themes. If you believe that Jesus is the fullest expression of God in the material world then it follows that other parts of scripture have to be viewed through this "lens". There is no way that encouraging war between Israel and her enemies because this will bring on the end times can possibly be squared with "love your enemies", "blessed are the peacemakers" and "love your neighbour as yourself". End times theology is based on the apocalyptic document Revelation. This was written around the time the Jewish temple was destroyed by the Romans and is following a Jewish tradition of capturing events in mythological imagery. It is clearly inappropriate to extrapolate this into theology and produce a teaching that runs counter to Jesus' whole moral outlook - it's not rocket science!
Or Rocket Scientist! Thanks for your answer.
- Proud to be 50% banana -
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Why do you want to go to heaven in the first place? The thing about heaven is that heaven is for people who like the sort of things that go on in heaven. Like singing, talking to god, waterring pot plants... Whereas hell on the other hand is for people who like the other sorts of things. Adultery, pillage, torture... Those areas.
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quote: Originally posted by zwaraaaa:
Why do you want to go to heaven in the first place? The thing about heaven is that heaven is for people who like the sort of things that go on in heaven. Like singing, talking to god, waterring pot plants... Whereas hell on the other hand is for people who like the other sorts of things. Adultery, pillage, torture... Those areas.
so we may as well stay here where we can choose either 
Cheers
GJ
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quote: Originally posted by Greenjack:
Thing is, god could be real, but he could be really whimsical. He might find it amusing to trick all the gullible into a place which is really boring while all the fun stuff happens elsewhere. I mean, all that endlessly praising god's going to get a bit tiresome, isn't it? What's the point of heaven if doesn't include some 'me' time?
- Proud to be 50% banana -
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quote: Originally posted by greenbelt: I'm not sure I can bear much more of all this literalist interpretation of scripture God is trying to get through to man. Man is trying to understand God and one way this gets expressed is through religion. Over the years man gets better at understanding God which is why there is a "moral progression" from the Old Testament to the New Testament. If you are a Christian you believe that Jesus is the best representation of God that there has been on earth and that this representation was a "reaching out" from God and a "bridge-building" between God and man. Jesus says that "no-one comes to the father except by me". I don't believe this is talking about people fulfilling entry criteria for Christian churches. This is talking about the fundamental reality of what Jesus has done and i see no reason why this reality shouldn't be accessible to those of other religions and none.
How do you know that Jesus was telling the truth when he claimed to be the son of god? |
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quote: Originally posted by CDarwin:
How do you know that Jesus was telling the truth when he claimed to be the son of god?
he didn't, not once. I think he claimed to be the son of man. Others claimed him as the son of god.
Cheers
GJ
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quote: Originally posted by Greenjack: quote: Originally posted by CDarwin:
How do you know that Jesus was telling the truth when he claimed to be the son of god?
he didn't, not once (according to the bible) I think he claimed to be the son of man. Others claimed him as the son of god.
Cheers
GJ
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