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quote: Originally posted by maningrey: quote: Originally posted by Privates On Parade:
Is there an optimum population level this country can support, if so what is the approximate figure?
Estimates vary between 32 and 40 million. This asusmes self sufficiency in all but energy from current sources. This is a figure from 2006, so may be a little out of date.
And why would it be positive look at the "I,ve got aVilla in Spain" trash....the behaviour of the English in Ibiza,Aya Napa .ad Nuasiem...... |
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quote: Originally posted by bagel queen: a true picture was not shown and this discussion was a waste of time for me...makers were very selective in questions they answered...I asked a very reasonable question and I think they were avoiding answering it because they did not have an answer...very very dissapointed..but then who am I? If only you knew!  
Is that you Davina?.  |
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quote: Originally posted by Ed B.: quote: Originally posted by hardwon: quote: Originally posted by Ed B.: quote: Originally posted by hardwon:
I agree that Immigration is a "delicate2 subject, made more so by the fact that one cannot express an opinion without being called racist or worse!
Do you agree that it is difficult for many of the White British population to express concerns re the additional demand for; Social Housing/Education/Health Services, without being called racists??
I think there is a new climate of discourse emerging where immigration can be discussed without the issue of "race" autmatically being invoked. In part, that was what our programme was trying to deminstrate .....
Blimey..........being able to spell obviously isn't one of the criteria for C4 Commissioners!!!
Speeling is a criterion ..... tipin isn't!
Anything I type in my Post A Reply box is automatically spell checked as I type, by putting a red underline under the offending misspelt word. This is the default on Mac OSX, perhaps on a PC you have to switch it on! 
_______________________________________________
A truth that's told with bad intent,
beats all the lies you can invent. W.Blake
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quote: Originally posted by Joshh: quote: Originally posted by MIDGEBW: quote: Originally posted by Ed B.: quote: Originally posted by bjm:
OK how about following up these programmes with more on the same subject? Not every 40 years.
We're keen to do so - what angles are you interested in?
Well how about a serious look at the expectancy of many foreigners to tap into our benefits system? Our Education system? Our national health system? real issues faced by ordinary British people every day.
Absolutely, I second that suggestion.
I agree too. Having worked in a Doctors surgery where we were faced with migrant workers registering on mass, demanding tests for eveything and witnessing a migrant who arrived in the country 2 weeks prior to giving birth and seeing the preferential treatment she received. I would be very interested to see what the long term effect will be on our already overstretched services |
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quote: Originally posted by trigga1uk:
The 'arnt we all immigrants' arguement. Maybe so but its totally different today and you know it. The muslim enclaves of the north of england are of concern, the million sof eastern europeans taking advantage of the 21st century communism promoted by the EU. The world is a lot smaller than it used to be and with airtravel and the internet people are wanting to come to any country where they can simply 'get more' and they will stay unil they 'cant get so much' and go to where they can 'get more'.
Um... yes! That is how capitalism is supposed to work. There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve conditions for your family, moving wherever opportunity takes you, having the courage to leave your comfort zone in search of personal success. What is the real concern here? Could it be that hard working immigrants will make you look bad? Don't worry, no one cares if the wheels of the British economy are greased by the Brits, Eastern Europeans, or North Americans... as long as it works.
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Press on regardless!
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quote: Originally posted by Kufah: quote: Originally posted by Leonardo De Finchley:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Boja:
More ammunition for BNP - courtsy of C4!
Now BNP doesn't need a party election broadcast - c4 has done a fantastic job for them.
What were you thinking?
Well, at least the BBC are still around for the Liberal Lefties, if you're willing to pay for it. The BNP are the only party who are willing, and brave enough to speak up for the rights of British people. Its about time people began to see past the CHILDISH Notion that the BNP are a party of NAZIS. Look around you, who are the real NAZIS, who are busy right now, with their experiment of 'SOCIAL ENGINEERING'. But some of us, Enlightened EU sceptics, know that this is just part of an even bigger agenda. For the whole world to be governed by ONE ORDER. Ladies and Gents, I give you, "THE NEW WORLD ORDER" If you don't believe it, review Brown's speech, which he made while in the US last week. Where he confirmed HIS desire for a SINGLE WORLD GOVERNMENT, where the US should play a leading role. This is social Engineering on a much bigger scale than Hitler ever achieved. And it seems that most British people are asleep, and letting it go ahead without objection. So ask yourself this, are you going to keep on voting Labout, Tory, or LibDem, and allow this to go ahead? Or are you going to Vote BNP, and attempt to thwart the plans of our LATTERDAY HITLER'S? I for one, wnat to hold on to my BIRTHRIGHT, as my ancestral home, and a home for my children, My British children. It is time we started thinking for, and about ourselves. Vote BNP may 1st.
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quote: Originally posted by David41:
What a whitewash! "Immigration: the inconvenient truth" was a series which promised well but finished poorly. In trying to cover all the bases Mr Omah failed to realise that he was confusing two distinct issues, both of which he covered in the series but only one of which really related to the famous "Rivers of blood speech". The first concerned the eastern Europeans who may be resented by those who have lost their jobs as a result of their influence on wages but whose presence, even in large numbers has nothing to do with the "rivers of blood" evoked in Enoch Powell's speech. The second concerned those who came from that part of the world to which Powell's speech refered - especially the Indian subcontinent - and whose population density in most of their UK communities has now reached critical mass, thereby allowing its members to live the parallel and independent lifestyles to which the series referred and which threaten to bring about the very outcomes that Powell predicted. (And to which the second programme referred). To try to confabulate the two issues was at best clumsy and careless and at worst an attempt to confuse peoples' sensiblilties in the way that those who spoke of "asylum seekers" did in the 90's when we know today that in the vast majority of cases they were really talking about immigration but through a combination of PC and the drip, drip of misrepesentation gave us a false and more acceptable impression of immigration. Not until those communities from the Indian subcontinent - and in particular Pakistan - have become better assimilated into the wider community will the possibiliy of Powell's predictions start to fade. That is the real "inconvenient truth" that, once evoked you should have concentrated on. But then when you have to be even-handed, as TV journalsits have to be how are you ever going to be able to tell any "inconvenient truths" if they are not those "truths?" that have to be accepted by the established communities? Your theme - referring to Powell's speech might have been sensationalist - but what it inspired in your series was anything but. And in the end it was just another piece of TV gloss of the kind we have come to expect masquerading as "serious commentary". That, for me, was the only real "inconvenient truth" in all this.
Excellent appraisal of a potentially good piece of journalism which failed to grasp the 'nettle' and, instead, went for complacency. |
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quote: Originally posted by Ed B.:
Thanks to everyone who has taken part - some really interesting views, and suggestions. I'm off to think up some more controversial series! Good night!
Why don't you do a follow up series on the cultural aspects of immigration. Your programme focused on economic aspects. You could ask questions such as Can different values exist in the same country? Has religion and nationality surpassed race? How multicultural is Britain? Examine why a place like Tanzania is fairly good at holding a half christian, half muslim population, whilst in Nigeria the same is true, but sometimes strife between groups exists. Why is Brazil so ethnically diverse and sucessful at it? |
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The final conclusion of this documentary was so warped I could not believe it. The suggestion that the British people and especially the working class in Britain are somehow at fault for not joining the modern era of transworld job seeking is astonishing.
This idea that the type of immigration we have in Britain today is significantly different from the past is also flawed. I mean how can they know this. Just because some Polish people are deciding to go back home doesn't mean that the majority will. Essentially all they have seen is a small movement of people back to Poland and have come up with this new unbelievable theory. This is just another rubbish excuse from the liberal elite in Britain who constantly come up with any old tosh to praise high levels of immigration into Britain.
Are the working class in France and Germany moving out in large numbers to find work abroad. I don't think so. It's just the working class in britain who are now being told to get on their bike.. sorry, plane. Hey maybe they can go to Poland! If the British working class were to start looking for work abroad (which they understandly won't) they would soon find out that their weekly wage would be considerably lower. It just isn't going to happen and why should they have to go searching for work abroad. British Builders, Plummers and warehouse staff etc are losing out to Eastern Europeans because UK companies are ONLY recruiting new workers from abroad.
We certainly do have a very large number of people in Britain who are lazy and refuse to work but I'm talking about the working class, not the underclass. It's the people who do want to work who are now being completely rejected/sidelined by UK companies who perfer to pay less money to foreign workers and to make their recruiting process much easier by not even bothering to advertise in this country.
The underclass in Britain who now sit at home on the dole are just the product of the social corrupting political agenda of the liberals who have turned this nation into a laughing stock. The British people were never seen as lazy up until a few decades ago. We had a first class work ethic just like the Polish but this has all changed and the liberals now try to solve all the problems they have created by letting in millions of foreign workers and telling the British working class to basically get lost.
Maybe it's the liberals who need to get lost.
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quote: Originally posted by nyunyu:
I felt it more than like turn the British people against the Polish poeple. And I can see in this forum that is quite successful.UK is part of the EU. There are people from UK who work in the other EU country.
Just think about USA.How is it looks like if people are going to live from Utah (where is not good the economical position) to California. And in California they do the same telly programm.
Seconed think. Soldiers from Poland was alliance of the British army in the II WW. But Britania forget them after Yalta.And what do you think about it? Poland never did a big problem of it. But this is the result, that they are here now.
And you can have a look on the statistic, how many people from the EU work in the care homes to look after the british very ill erderly people.
Nyunyu, I hope that you do not take this personally, because I think that that peoples views on immigration is all managed by our governments. I would not be surprised if you were told one thing in your country, and we were told something else in ours. This is what leads to mis-understandings and conflicts. This happened in the 60s when British people were not advised of the impact that Asians and West Indian immigration would have on them. The politicians were only thinking about their money. |
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Congratulations Ch4! We have had a series which, whilst making every effort to Rubbish the speech of Powell, by the very slanting of the programme so that one of the main discussions was how recent immigrants felt about "follow up" immigration, I feel the main anxieties of the white ethnic majority has been only briefly touched upon.
I think it patronising that the last episode was saying that the English should leave England to find work!!
Also, it was ironic that Ch 4 News tonight, carried a story of how council swimming baths were organising "Muslims only" sessions, and turned away a white researcher from a badminton court.
This is the official type of PC discrimination which has caused much of the resentment among the widespread British population. It has been going on for years, and perhaps you could run a series looking at this type of reverse racism, which the councils concerned seem to think acceptable. For if there can be "Muslims only" sessions, there can also be "Whites only" sessions to balance the racism of the insensitive nature of official PC Britain!
It is interesting that there never seems to be any programmes which ignore totally immigrant communities. We have excessive respect for all religions, we also circle warily when ethnic communities make a fuss (Danish cartoons for instance). Why not a series discussing the need for total secularisation as a counter to religious extremism?? Apart from the above, not a bad stab at describing everyday problems. However, shouldn`t we by now be having immigrant communities really integrating and adopting British values, instead of "circling their wagons".
A bit of a slant on their need to assimilate would be a timely balance to the "English should leave to get jobs" message unfortunately presented tonight!
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quote: Originally posted by mariusz:
Hi,
I am from Poland and I would like to comment on the issue of access to benefits. Some of you are right and I can't disagree with the opinion that the system is being abused by immigrants in general. I am quite sure that everyone from Poland knows someone who claims benefits. The system is open to abuse, easily accesible and the political correctness makes everyone afraid of teling the truth. Go to Poland and ask for benefits - they would put you in straight jacket or would laugh in your face!
Access to interpreters in England is just radiculus - If I want to live here you have to lern the lingo.
What irrates me is the fact that I have to pay for it as well - is not only the locals who suffer. I have been working hard from the very beginning, have never claimed a penny and my studies are being paid by me from my salary.
To sum up - political correctness and the lack of common sense won't help this country in the future.
QFT |
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quote: Originally posted by mariusz:
Hi,
I am from Poland and I would like to comment on the issue of access to benefits. Some of you are right and I can't disagree with the opinion that the system is being abused by immigrants in general. I am quite sure that everyone from Poland knows someone who claims benefits. The system is open to abuse, easily accesible and the political correctness makes everyone afraid of teling the truth. Go to Poland and ask for benefits - they would put you in straight jacket or would laugh in your face!
Access to interpreters in England is just radiculus - If I want to live here you have to lern the lingo.
What irrates me is the fact that I have to pay for it as well - is not only the locals who suffer. I have been working hard from the very beginning, have never claimed a penny and my studies are being paid by me from my salary.
To sum up - political correctness and the lack of common sense won't help this country in the future.
If you are truly Polish, then thank you for your honesty. |
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quote: V Profane
New Member
Posted 21-04-08 22:03 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ed B.:
We're keen to do so - what angles are you interested in?
Multiculturalism and Islam: what are the consequences of hosting an ideology which is frequently antithetical to a liberal, open society? (C.F. Holland)
Immigration and the Welfare State: what is the effect of immigration on the welfare state and what effect does the welfare state have on immigration?
Posts: 3
Also an documentary entitled... "Who picked the lettuces and fitted the bathroom suites BEFORE the immigrants arrived?" ... because these are allegedly jobs that the British are simply not prepared to do. |
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My question for Channel 4:
Why do you keep making programmes that encourage British people to emigrate? In addition to this programme you also have the likes of "A Place in the Sun", "A Place in Slovakia" etc.
Have you been told by the government/ big business to broadcast these and encourage British people to emigrate? Is this part of the new Highland Clearances execept this time, rather than clearing the Scottish from Scotland to make way for more profitable sheep, it's about Clearing the English out of England and replacing them with cheaper, more profitable temporary foreign workers that are prepared to live 20 to a caravan?
Is this the wonderful bright new ultra-low-wage future that Channel 4 wants for Britain?
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y is it when we go to vote there is only 3 options and we all no hoo thay are i live in runcorn and have never seen the bmp on my polling card and i personly no of 1000 people ho will vote
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quote: Originally posted by blinduk: quote: Originally posted by Samir S: quote: Originally posted by israelstar:
Hi Samir,
I believe that this immigration dispatches has been a great sucess. Personally I believe some people make the comments they do because they are uneducated in the sense when it comes immigration. A lot of people fail to realise that the uk are apart of the European union along with 26 other member states. There are many articles within the E.u treaty which gives rights to the 27 members states of the E.u. To move,live, work and recieve the same social benefits in their host country. I feel some people feel insecure within themselves and that is my some people make ignorant comments about immigrants. I also feel immigrants maybe our foundation because a lot people take for granted the domestic jobs that some of them do i.e bin men and street cleaners. It does not matter about your race, it all depends on the individual person.
Good points, well made
so thats why spain has removed its health support of the british that have retired there
Because England is a member of the EU doesn't necesarily mean that all Brits are happy about that - it would however, be nice for any immigrant to at least be respectful and not criticise the host nation. |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dansue:
HHi Dansue,
YOur question was: HOw much net contribution is made by the Polish family with 2 children who is waiting for the child benefit?
My answer would be: Exactly the same amount as the contribution made by an English person. My husband and I both work and pay the same taxes as English people do. Why can your taxes pay for your children's education but my taxes cannot pay for my chilren's education is beyond me. PLease explain.
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You speak of comforts zones, well the muslim enclaves of the north of england found a solution, take your comfort zone with you.
Chances are the poles will work harder than me, but thats part of the working conditions the unions have strived to attain (maybe to much) for us in the uk. We dont have to work in a dickensian manner in the uk anymore but because of the semi soviet working attitude of the poles we all have to go back to working like in the late 1900's. And you say about the wheels of the british economy, well fact is most of the grease is going back to Poland, hence why the wheels are beginning to sqeek!
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quote: Originally posted by System Seven:
I'm also inclined to believe that much of the economic benefit that comes with hard-working migrants is never felt by anyone except people in the financial positions of the upper-middle class and above. Take for example, the service industry. The food in the restaurant I went to this weekend has gone up not down since they started employing what I suspect are significantly cheaper and more efficient Eastern European workers. If fact, I haven't seen the price of anything drop recently, nor are my pockets overflowing with the money the company I work for has saved by employing cheap immigrant labour. Migrants are great news if your a 45 year old Senior Director with 12 run-down buy-to-lets you bought for 50k a pop a few years ago, or you have shares in Tesco, or you run a chain of restaurants. But that just isn't most people. These are just a privileged minority who are becoming even more wealthy, which may explain the increasing wealth gap in this country.
Agreed and they are closing doors behind them. |
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quote: Originally posted by Leonardo De Finchley: quote: Originally posted by maningrey: quote: Originally posted by Privates On Parade:
Is there an optimum population level this country can support, if so what is the approximate figure?
Estimates vary between 32 and 40 million. This asusmes self sufficiency in all but energy from current sources. This is a figure from 2006, so may be a little out of date.
And why would it be positive look at the "I,ve got aVilla in Spain" trash....the behaviour of the English in Ibiza,Aya Napa .ad Nuasiem......
A separate debate, in fact there is no debate.. People should respect the culture and language of anywhere they go, regardless of where they are from and where they are going to. |
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