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Absolutely right Geeza. I have tried to say the same thing. We have been denied a debate for forty years or more. Only now has it suddenly become acceptable, and there is only one conclusion you can possibly come to as why this has happened.
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quote: Originally posted by accidentalbrit:
To Sqeezedout.
If all of our identities are destroyed (globally) then that would make us all the same and therefore there would be no one cheaper, unless the martians are coming to the party.
I think I need a drink. |
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quote: Originally posted by accidentalbrit:
What an awful predicament Ada.
Hilarious !!! |
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quote: Originally posted by bjm:
Absolutely right Geeza. I have tried to say the same thing. We have been denied a debate for forty years or more. Only now has it suddenly become acceptable, and there is only one conclusion you can possibly come to as why this has happened.
Indeed and how messed up is this fact! |
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quote: Originally posted by accidentalbrit:
To Sqeezedout.
If all of our identities are destroyed (globally) then that would make us all the same and therefore there would be no one cheaper, unless the martians are coming to the party.
The problem is that some people dont know who they are and just like having lots of kids. So say you are competing for housing on a street with group x that has ten members. 5 couples. There are say 100 houses in the street plenty to go around. Then they each have 10 kids. (not uncommon in some parts). That then makes 55 people. Say their kids grow up have 10 kids each thats 25 couples *10 = 250 kids , then the next generation of 10 kids each gives 1250 kids next gen 6250 31000 155000 775000 3875000 Think thats 8 generations. Assuming 25 as some kind of average age between generations gives us 200 years to go from 10 people to 4 million people from the same group. (Ignoring inbreeding effects!) So those 10 have become 4 million. You thought competing with ten of them was ok ? Well now you have 4 million competeing for the same limited housing supply that was only ment to house 100 families. And you descendants will be the ones being squeezed. If you dont know who you are yo will just be swamped by a huge human tidal wave ! |
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You lucky Puppy !  I wish you he best for the future , just remember that without an Identity the world can be a scary place. Though sounds like your kids might be spolit for choice ! Antiguan, Polish, British, American ? |
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quote: Originally posted by ada111:
I would like to add that ironically it has been Britain that has been "milking" me so far. 40,000 pounds overseas student fees while others students were paying peanuts , and still complaining how expensive it was. Are you guys not getting ahead of yourself? And now I even cannot feel happy that the Polish shops are opening everywhere as it apparently interferes with some narrowminded pplles lives? What do you want?
What do I want? I think the question is, what don't want... I don't want to be a stranger in my own city, London. I don't want to always hear a foreign language on the bus, but never English. I don't want the population of London to be "so transient". I want to have a stable community of people to bond with. I don't want want migrants to set up business' and then only employ their nationality (not all migrants do this, but I have seen it happen) I don't want people who have been living here for 5 years, still not to know a word of English. I don't want London simply to be thought as a "place" to make money, and thats it I want the migrants, whether short term or permenant to be around 15-20% of the population of London, not more (or less actually), this is a true anywhere. I want to see a situation where locals work in polish shops. Jews work in Mosques, Pakstanis work in Hindu shops etc. Ada, I'm not anti-polish, before the change in the law I was always very friendly to migrants, and had a polish friend, who I showed round the place and took them to parts of the country. However I can not accept a situation where a huge percentage of my city is foreigners people who are "passing" through, only here to make money and some ridiculous merry go round circus, its a recipe for segregation ... I want to imagine that yourself in the same situation in Poland ... Think ... and lots of love .. |
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quote: Originally posted by SquezedOut: quote: Originally posted by accidentalbrit:
To Sqeezedout.
If all of our identities are destroyed (globally) then that would make us all the same and therefore there would be no one cheaper, unless the martians are coming to the party.
The problem is that some people dont know who they are and just like having lots of kids. So say you are competing for housing on a street with group x that has ten members. 5 couples. There are say 100 houses in the street plenty to go around. Then they each have 10 kids. (not uncommon in some parts). That then makes 55 people. Say their kids grow up have 10 kids each thats 25 couples *10 = 250 kids , then the next generation of 10 kids each gives 1250 kids next gen 6250 31000 155000 775000 3875000 Think thats 8 generations. Assuming 25 as some kind of average age between generations gives us 200 years to go from 10 people to 4 million people from the same group. (Ignoring inbreeding effects!) So those 10 have become 4 million. You thought competing with ten of them was ok ? Well now you have 4 million competeing for the same limited housing supply that was only ment to house 100 families. And you descendants will be the ones being squeezed. If you dont know who you are yo will just be swamped by a huge human tidal wave !
WOW! That is incredible! even if that figure was halved or even reduced to two kids each couple, it is still far too much for our small country to deal with. I feel very, very sorry for my children and their future generations. |
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Well, it is really hard with long term relationships..... Anyway my point was what really matter is the way we communicate, sometimes you have people with exactly the same ethnic/religious backgrounds from the same place, country, city, town, village etc. who just cannot agree on anything and communicate anything valuable or intrinsic to what it really means to be a real human and on the other hand you have people from different places, different parts of the world who can actually get along very well. I think we should all try to find ways to communicate better to enable tolerance, democracy to prevail in this country instead of creating confusions awakening old prejudices.
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quote: Originally posted by Londoner1001: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
I would like to add that ironically it has been Britain that has been "milking" me so far. 40,000 pounds overseas student fees while others students were paying peanuts , and still complaining how expensive it was. Are you guys not getting ahead of yourself? And now I even cannot feel happy that the Polish shops are opening everywhere as it apparently interferes with some narrowminded pplles lives? What do you want?
What do I want? I think the question is, what don't want... I don't want to be a stranger in my own city, London. I don't want to always hear a foreign language on the bus, but never English. I don't want the population of London to be "so transient". I want to have a stable community of people to bond with. I don't want want migrants to set up business' and then only employ their nationality (not all migrants do this, but I have seen it happen) I don't want people who have been living here for 5 years, still not to know a word of English. I don't want London simply to be thought as a "place" to make money, and thats it I want the migrants, whether short term or permenant to be around 15-20% of the population of London, not more (or less actually), this is a true anywhere. I want to see a situation where locals work in polish shops. Jews work in Mosques, Pakstanis work in Hindu shops etc. Ada, I'm not anti-polish, before the change in the law I was always very friendly to migrants, and had a polish friend, who I showed round the place and took them to parts of the country. However I can not accept a situation where a huge percentage of my city is foreigners people who are "passing" through, only here to make money and some ridiculous merry go round circus, its a recipe for segregation ... I want to imagine that yourself in the same situation in Poland ... Think ... and lots of love ..
I think we should all try to find ways to communicate better to enable tolerance, democracy to prevail in this country instead of creating confusions awakening old prejudices. |
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quote: Originally posted by ada111: quote: Originally posted by Londoner1001: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
I would like to add that ironically it has been Britain that has been "milking" me so far. 40,000 pounds overseas student fees while others students were paying peanuts , and still complaining how expensive it was. Are you guys not getting ahead of yourself? And now I even cannot feel happy that the Polish shops are opening everywhere as it apparently interferes with some narrowminded pplles lives? What do you want?
What do I want? I think the question is, what don't want... I don't want to be a stranger in my own city, London. I don't want to always hear a foreign language on the bus, but never English. I don't want the population of London to be "so transient". I want to have a stable community of people to bond with. I don't want want migrants to set up business' and then only employ their nationality (not all migrants do this, but I have seen it happen) I don't want people who have been living here for 5 years, still not to know a word of English. I don't want London simply to be thought as a "place" to make money, and thats it I want the migrants, whether short term or permenant to be around 15-20% of the population of London, not more (or less actually), this is a true anywhere. I want to see a situation where locals work in polish shops. Jews work in Mosques, Pakstanis work in Hindu shops etc. Ada, I'm not anti-polish, before the change in the law I was always very friendly to migrants, and had a polish friend, who I showed round the place and took them to parts of the country. However I can not accept a situation where a huge percentage of my city is foreigners people who are "passing" through, only here to make money and some ridiculous merry go round circus, its a recipe for segregation ... I want to imagine that yourself in the same situation in Poland ... Think ... and lots of love ..
I think we should all try to find ways to communicate better to enable tolerance, democracy to prevail in this country instead of creating confusions awakening old prejudices.
I'm sorry Ada these are not old prejudices, they have always been there, but we have always been told by our own government and old immigrants that we are not allowed to say anything or we will be prosecuted as being racist! That is why the outrage has not happened earlier. |
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quote: Originally posted by Londoner1001: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
I would like to add that ironically it has been Britain that has been "milking" me so far. 40,000 pounds overseas student fees while others students were paying peanuts , and still complaining how expensive it was. Are you guys not getting ahead of yourself? And now I even cannot feel happy that the Polish shops are opening everywhere as it apparently interferes with some narrowminded pplles lives? What do you want?
What do I want? I think the question is, what don't want... I don't want to be a stranger in my own city, London. I don't want to always hear a foreign language on the bus, but never English. I don't want the population of London to be "so transient". I want to have a stable community of people to bond with. I don't want want migrants to set up business' and then only employ their nationality (not all migrants do this, but I have seen it happen) I don't want people who have been living here for 5 years, still not to know a word of English. I don't want London simply to be thought as a "place" to make money, and thats it I want the migrants, whether short term or permenant to be around 15-20% of the population of London, not more (or less actually), this is a true anywhere. I want to see a situation where locals work in polish shops. Jews work in Mosques, Pakstanis work in Hindu shops etc. Ada, I'm not anti-polish, before the change in the law I was always very friendly to migrants, and had a polish friend, who I showed round the place and took them to parts of the country. However I can not accept a situation where a huge percentage of my city is foreigners people who are "passing" through, only here to make money and some ridiculous merry go round circus, its a recipe for segregation ... I want to imagine that yourself in the same situation in Poland ... Think ... and lots of love ..
A bit mismatched parallel with Poland that has been , apart from having Jewish communities for centuries, pretty monolith as a society. Britain and especially London has been multicultural place for ages and ages so there is nothing that new with having another wave of immigration. Deal with it and try to be a little more friendly. |
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quote: Originally posted by cazie5: quote: Originally posted by ada111: quote: Originally posted by Londoner1001: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
I would like to add that ironically it has been Britain that has been "milking" me so far. 40,000 pounds overseas student fees while others students were paying peanuts , and still complaining how expensive it was. Are you guys not getting ahead of yourself? And now I even cannot feel happy that the Polish shops are opening everywhere as it apparently interferes with some narrowminded pplles lives? What do you want?
What do I want? I think the question is, what don't want... I don't want to be a stranger in my own city, London. I don't want to always hear a foreign language on the bus, but never English. I don't want the population of London to be "so transient". I want to have a stable community of people to bond with. I don't want want migrants to set up business' and then only employ their nationality (not all migrants do this, but I have seen it happen) I don't want people who have been living here for 5 years, still not to know a word of English. I don't want London simply to be thought as a "place" to make money, and thats it I want the migrants, whether short term or permenant to be around 15-20% of the population of London, not more (or less actually), this is a true anywhere. I want to see a situation where locals work in polish shops. Jews work in Mosques, Pakstanis work in Hindu shops etc. Ada, I'm not anti-polish, before the change in the law I was always very friendly to migrants, and had a polish friend, who I showed round the place and took them to parts of the country. However I can not accept a situation where a huge percentage of my city is foreigners people who are "passing" through, only here to make money and some ridiculous merry go round circus, its a recipe for segregation ... I want to imagine that yourself in the same situation in Poland ... Think ... and lots of love ..
I think we should all try to find ways to communicate better to enable tolerance, democracy to prevail in this country instead of creating confusions awakening old prejudices.
I'm sorry Ada these are not old prejudices, they have always been there, but we have always been told by our own government and old immigrants that we are not allowed to say anything or we will be prosecuted as being racist! That is why the outrage has not happened earlier.
Prejudices old or new have pejorative connotations. Better to open your mind. |
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I don't think I came across clear then, What I am trying to say is that I can only write these comments on here, I certainly wouldn't go out on the street and shout them out as I would be classed a racist! My point is that this is no different now or thirty years ago, The white immigrants coming in haven't changed this.
An immigrant is an immigrant regardless of colour or religious belief.
When my son was six years old he was at a school with only one child from a different race, kids being kids were playing around with name calling, My son picked up on a name, and called it a white english child, clearly proving he didn't know what it meant! the comment was placed on his permanent school record and it was recorded that he is a racist!!! He was six years old!
I don't believe for a second that this would have ever happened to an immigrant!
They were also given foreign language words to learn in spelling before he could even read the english language first!
It all seems totally ludicrouis to me, My now youngest son is now being taught by a polish teaching assistant who can hardly speak the english language, Can anyone honestly tell me that this is acceptable??
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quote: Originally posted by ada111:
Prejudices old or new have pejorative connotations. Better to open your mind.
Imagine if your own country was inundated with immigrants. Because of this you then had to pay for translation services, housing benefit etc. out of your own pocket, watch as your neighbourhood changed beyond recognition, worry that your children and their children would not inherit the country that was past safely in to your hands by your grandparents. On top of this imagine if you were not consulted by politicians for such a change to the make up of your country and if anyone was to voice concern they were shouted down as being racist. Consider how you, your friends and family would feel with an open mind.  |
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I once saw a piece of footage which blew my mind; there was an old man standing under a ramshackled council flat, standing nest to a couple of immigrants. He was saying, screaming "it is not these people who have made me a racist, it is the government which has by letting so many in".
The problem with people is that it is too easy to hate then it is to love. I appreciate Britain more as a multi-culture, it makes the world seem a lot smaller. However, I do realise there are problems with immigration, but I am not sure whether that is a problem with the government or the people. As I have mentioned in an earlier post, I feel schooling has more to do with immigration issues then any other. As well as this, society is too desirous, as the recent Rowntree survey showed. If people were not so desirous of money and career opportunities (by this I mean the 'career ladder') then people would be a lot more welcoming, I am sure of it.
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quote: Originally posted by ada111: quote: Originally posted by Londoner1001: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
I would like to add that ironically it has been Britain that has been "milking" me so far. 40,000 pounds overseas student fees while others students were paying peanuts , and still complaining how expensive it was. Are you guys not getting ahead of yourself? And now I even cannot feel happy that the Polish shops are opening everywhere as it apparently interferes with some narrowminded pplles lives? What do you want?
What do I want? I think the question is, what don't want... I don't want to be a stranger in my own city, London. I don't want to always hear a foreign language on the bus, but never English. I don't want the population of London to be "so transient". I want to have a stable community of people to bond with. I don't want want migrants to set up business' and then only employ their nationality (not all migrants do this, but I have seen it happen) I don't want people who have been living here for 5 years, still not to know a word of English. I don't want London simply to be thought as a "place" to make money, and thats it I want the migrants, whether short term or permenant to be around 15-20% of the population of London, not more (or less actually), this is a true anywhere. I want to see a situation where locals work in polish shops. Jews work in Mosques, Pakstanis work in Hindu shops etc. Ada, I'm not anti-polish, before the change in the law I was always very friendly to migrants, and had a polish friend, who I showed round the place and took them to parts of the country. However I can not accept a situation where a huge percentage of my city is foreigners people who are "passing" through, only here to make money and some ridiculous merry go round circus, its a recipe for segregation ... I want to imagine that yourself in the same situation in Poland ... Think ... and lots of love ..
A bit mismatched parallel with Poland that has been , apart from having Jewish communities for centuries, pretty monolith as a society. Britain and especially London has been multicultural place for ages and ages so there is nothing that new with having another wave of immigration. Deal with it and try to be a little more friendly.
So are you saying that Poland should be allowed to be a monolithic society and always should be, whilst Londoners and British people should be to open any number of migrants, even if they find themselves a minority in large areas of the cities and towns. Surely that is a hypocritical argument... |
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quote: Originally posted by Londoner1001: quote: Originally posted by ada111: quote: Originally posted by Londoner1001: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
I would like to add that ironically it has been Britain that has been "milking" me so far. 40,000 pounds overseas student fees while others students were paying peanuts , and still complaining how expensive it was. Are you guys not getting ahead of yourself? And now I even cannot feel happy that the Polish shops are opening everywhere as it apparently interferes with some narrowminded pplles lives? What do you want?
What do I want? I think the question is, what don't want... I don't want to be a stranger in my own city, London. I don't want to always hear a foreign language on the bus, but never English. I don't want the population of London to be "so transient". I want to have a stable community of people to bond with. I don't want want migrants to set up business' and then only employ their nationality (not all migrants do this, but I have seen it happen) I don't want people who have been living here for 5 years, still not to know a word of English. I don't want London simply to be thought as a "place" to make money, and thats it I want the migrants, whether short term or permenant to be around 15-20% of the population of London, not more (or less actually), this is a true anywhere. I want to see a situation where locals work in polish shops. Jews work in Mosques, Pakstanis work in Hindu shops etc. Ada, I'm not anti-polish, before the change in the law I was always very friendly to migrants, and had a polish friend, who I showed round the place and took them to parts of the country. However I can not accept a situation where a huge percentage of my city is foreigners people who are "passing" through, only here to make money and some ridiculous merry go round circus, its a recipe for segregation ... I want to imagine that yourself in the same situation in Poland ... Think ... and lots of love ..
A bit mismatched parallel with Poland that has been , apart from having Jewish communities for centuries, pretty monolith as a society. Britain and especially London has been multicultural place for ages and ages so there is nothing that new with having another wave of immigration. Deal with it and try to be a little more friendly.
So are you saying that Poland should be allowed to be a monolithic society and always should be, whilst Londoners and British people should be to open any number of migrants, even if they find themselves a minority in large areas of the cities and towns. Surely that is a hypocritical argument...
Stop putting words into peoples mounth, you are out of your depth. |
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If that is your opinion of the british people then why are you living here?
This is exactly what I was saying about how we are called racist if we speak our minds! This is not aimed soley at polish people and never once have I said that, I am talking about the state of immigration as a whole.
You have just proved everything I have been saying is correct.
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First, I have not seen the 3rd programme in the series "An Inconvenient Truth" but two things struck me:
1. Rageh Omar frequently made reference to the results of a YouGov survey, in which various percentages of "British" repsondents held some view or the other. It was never defined who was included in the definition of "British", because alot of the subjects of this documentary are 2nd/3rd generation descendants of immigrants, and would consider themselves British?
2. In the second episode there were a couple of 3rd generation asian boys who identified themselves from the Punjab region (Harjeev Sanuun & Karan Kapoor), although never having lived there nor spending any significant amount of time there (and neither had their parents). I suspect that if they did live there for 12+ months, say, they would not be seen as Punjabi by the local population there, and that they might find they have more in common with the white english they grew up with in the UK? The comment that followed from Punjabi playwright Bancil that followed expressed it perfectly - how they live their life, as british or punjabi, defines their true culture and identity.
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