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quote: Originally posted by phillydun:
Well I just tried to make a post but I am not sure whether it will come up because I called Enoch Powell a banker. The point I made, which may now be lost somewhere in the virtual airwaves, was that, basically, he seemed to me to be a racist. I don't ever consider a racists views. In, say 50 years time, will people be saying 'hmm I wonder whether the BNP were right?'. I hope I can leave this world in a better world that I fell into it.
Do you not think it is possible that you have been taught that he was racist therefore in your opinion he was a racist? He was a very talented and respected politician whose 'crime' was to voice the concern of his constituents and the larger British public at the time. Aren't politicians supposed to speak for their constituents or is this now old fashioned? |
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quote: Originally posted by workingmum: quote: Originally posted by workingmum:
The end of the programme neglected to say that the only economic migrants going back to their countries of origin are: the articulate, educated, multi-skilled who will most benefit from improving eastern european economies.
The majority of migrants staying will continue to work hard .... I worry about the minority who are: not going back because they'd rather stay here to access benefits, live on the streets, commit crime...... They are a destabilising influence and will further fuel what is already an inflamed debate !
I feel uncomfortable and am affected by large areas of local roads, schools, nurseries, buses, trains, hospital wards and doctors surgeries WHERE NO ENGLISH IS SPOKEN at times.
I agree that we Britons need to be better equipped to compete with a global market place and that we may in future need to "get on a plane" to find work, but as this wave of immigration has been too much, too fast, it does not stop me feeling like
a foreigner in my own country.
a foreigner in my own country - is something I can not realte too. Where do you live? |
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Please consider how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot, with an open mind.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by that? I have been surrounded by and tried to adjust myself to living with total "aliens" for 15 years now. Learned your language and your weird sense of humor , it not me who lacks an open mind.
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I don't know, you may be correct. I will never have any respect for the man. Not saying all people at those times where racist, but a lot where. My grandmother is, still. I live in Birmingham and she is always having a go at me because there are 'too many blacks and asians here', she never mentions the polish funnily enough. But you are right, politicians don't listen to there constituents these days which is a real shame.
On one note, I just complained to the BBC that they are showing BNP adverts. Does anyone think this is ok? Other then BNP voters that is. I hate the BNP as well as many people; thank God. But do they deserve this? Is it really a freedom of speech? or is it only because they have the money to pay off the BBC? what do you think?
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Ada, I have not said anything that I feel warranted your reaction of name calling etc, I do not live in London, I live in the north, I can honestly say that I do not know a single person who is happy with the current state of immigration in the UK, I would not ever have called myself a racist and I am certainly not a worthless nothing and I feel very offended by your reaction.
I also feel that you have just took the gloves off and have proved that it is not us that is causing this rift, it is people like you.
I am sorry that it has come to this when once again I re-itterate that we are not allowed to say anything relating to our countries state of affairs.
Ironically is this not the very reason for the original wave of polish immigrants in the 1950's who came to the UK to escape communism, freedom of speech still exists in the UK.
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quote: Originally posted by ada111:
Please consider how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot, with an open mind.
What do you mean by that? I have been surrounded by and tried to adjust myself to living with total "aliens" for 15 years now. Learned your language and your weird sense of humor , it not me who lacks an open mind.[/QUOTE] But ADA, its just cultural difference. For example I don't think I will ever get used to Your food, but then again you may not ever get used to British food, or should I say 'British' food. I don't think that makes either of us racists. |
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quote: Originally posted by ada111:
Please consider how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot, with an open mind.
quote:
What do you mean by that? I have been surrounded by and tried to adjust myself to living with total "aliens" for 15 years now. Learned your language and your weird sense of humor , it not me who lacks an open mind.
I mean imagine if your 'own' home country was inundated with unprecedented levels of immigration without your consultation. How would you feel? |
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quote: Originally posted by cazie5:
Ada, I have not said anything that I feel warranted your reaction of name calling etc, I do not live in London, I live in the north, I can honestly say that I do not know a single person who is happy with the current state of immigration in the UK, I would not ever have called myself a racist and I am certainly not a worthless nothing and I feel very offended by your reaction.
Freedom of speech only exists if you are not dumb enough to actually try it
I also feel that you have just took the gloves off and have proved that it is not us that is causing this rift, it is people like you.
I am sorry that it has come to this when once again I re-itterate that we are not allowed to say anything relating to our countries state of affairs.
Ironically is this not the very reason for the original wave of polish immigrants in the 1950's who came to the UK to escape communism, freedom of speech still exists in the UK.
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quote: Originally posted by Geeza..: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
What about the right of Polish emigration to say anything about your awful attitudes towards us. On this account I would like to say that it has been truly despicable, how willing you, racist lot, are to cast your stones at the Poles. You heartless, insensitive, crooked, inhumane, disgusting, selfish, without honor and intergrity shadows of what it means to be human beings, preying on vulnerable, hardworking immigrants to fill up your pathetic little lives.
Please read my comment Posted 22-04-08 22:22, top of page 17, this may give you a little insight in to why people are directing their frustration towards Poles and other Eastern Europeans. Of course you people should not be getting venom with which you appear to be getting, the venom should be directed towards our own government who failed to ask us if we wanted such levels of immigration in the first place. I'm sure, with an open mind, once you have considered how us British have been treated with regards to not being consulted by our politicians and the nature of the immigration debate, or lack of, over the years. You will I hope realise that you are being unfairly targeted by our frustration to have a say in the make up of our own country. Please consider how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot, with an open mind.
Please ask the stuck up Poles who never traveled anywhere and who live in Poland not me. I am an emigrant and surely have a bit more open mind about these issues. |
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quote: Originally posted by phillydun:
I don't know, you may be correct. I will never have any respect for the man. Not saying all people at those times where racist, but a lot where. My grandmother is, still. I live in Birmingham and she is always having a go at me because there are 'too many blacks and asians here', she never mentions the polish funnily enough. But you are right, politicians don't listen to there constituents these days which is a real shame.
On one note, I just complained to the BBC that they are showing BNP adverts. Does anyone think this is ok? Other then BNP voters that is. I hate the BNP as well as many people; thank God. But do they deserve this? Is it really a freedom of speech? or is it only because they have the money to pay off the BBC? what do you think?
I don't support or vote for the BNP but to say that their opinion should not be aired or should be banned is fascistic in nature. Spot the irony?  |
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quote: Originally posted by Geeza..: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
Please consider how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot, with an open mind.
quote:
What do you mean by that? I have been surrounded by and tried to adjust myself to living with total "aliens" for 15 years now. Learned your language and your weird sense of humor , it not me who lacks an open mind.
I mean imagine if your 'own' home country was inundated with unprecedented levels of immigration without your consultation. How would you feel?
Please ask the stuck up Poles who never traveled anywhere and who live in Poland not me. I am an emigrant and surely have a bit more open mind about these issues. |
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quote: Originally posted by ada111:
Please ask the stuck up Poles who never traveled anywhere and who live in Poland not me. I am an emigrant and surely have a bit more open mind about these issues.
Are they stuck up because they prefer to stay in their country, work hard and put food on the table for their family?  |
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quote: Originally posted by Geeza..: quote: Originally posted by phillydun:
I don't know, you may be correct. I will never have any respect for the man. Not saying all people at those times where racist, but a lot where. My grandmother is, still. I live in Birmingham and she is always having a go at me because there are 'too many blacks and asians here', she never mentions the polish funnily enough. But you are right, politicians don't listen to there constituents these days which is a real shame.
On one note, I just complained to the BBC that they are showing BNP adverts. Does anyone think this is ok? Other then BNP voters that is. I hate the BNP as well as many people; thank God. But do they deserve this? Is it really a freedom of speech? or is it only because they have the money to pay off the BBC? what do you think?
I don't support or vote for the BNP but to say that their opinion should not be aired or should be banned is fascistic in nature. Spot the irony?
Yes I do, I may not have made it very well but my point is freedom of speech and many other civil liberties have been taken off the citizens of this country, and that is a fact, look it up if you do not believe me. But should the BBC not have a bigger sense of dignity and give a voice to say the green party rather then the BNP who can throw more money at them? |
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quote: Originally posted by phillydun: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
Please consider how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot, with an open mind.
What do you mean by that? I have been surrounded by and tried to adjust myself to living with total "aliens" for 15 years now. Learned your language and your weird sense of humor , it not me who lacks an open mind.
But ADA, its just cultural difference. For example I don't think I will ever get used to Your food, but then again you may not ever get used to British food, or should I say 'British' food. I don't think that makes either of us racists.[/QUOTE] Of course not. But earlier today one poster here said "immigrants should go back home" and generally made rasists remarks knowing that Poles are active on this board. I has made me very upset actually just when four years ago I got a leaflet from BNP with a slogan that Easter Europeans should go home. I think these are acts of cruelty and should be stopped. They are very hurtful and damaging. Or perhaps those pple want to have queues of Poles at the NHS Mental Health Departments suffering from depression? They surely contribute to making us feel like that. The thing is anti immigrant slogans are dividing peoples of this country instead of bridging communities together. Settled immigrants also have families in their countries of origin, putting not yet settled immigrants of these countries in a bad light is very unnerving for the settled immigrants. |
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Hey all you! Leave us Poles alone. Suddenly you have re-discovered that you have an influx of immigration what's a very old issue here and now you exercise debates about immigration at our moral cost (not yours obviously!!!) claiming that it's better to discuss it openly. Such is the great freedom of Brits to always complain about every possible nation on this planet! Why haven't you performed such an open-discussion experiment on some other nation a long time ago? The truth is immigration has always been let here to boost the economy and when things turn sour immigrants are here always first to blame instead of the government for the poor housing and health-wise planning! You have larger numbers of Brits leaving this country and yet you are short of accommodation. Not mentioning your housing wasn't turned into ruins during the WWII! First you open your borders, people change their whole lives to settle down here and then you create such an atmosphere that one feels on a downer all the time, then you say to us "go home". Yet, you all are so condescending, you really think we all are plumbers and some navvy stuff! Good grief! How this all is mistaken - perhaps cos you're to scarred and prejudiced to speak to us so to find out on your own once you spot us on streets. And yet, crap media just gives you such a fast-food coverages that are no better than all this shambles going-on in tabloids. You don't even know how many of us were attracted to this country by your media broadcasting apparently an overly idyllic and idealised portray of this country. Though, this is in this pseudo-proud British nature to always boast around the world, make mistakes and point fingers at the others. OK, enough of venting my outrage out for today! Tomorrow better day will come hopefully for all of you and us.
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quote: Originally posted by phillydun: quote: Originally posted by Geeza..: quote: Originally posted by phillydun:
Well I just tried to make a post but I am not sure whether it will come up because I called Enoch Powell a banker. The point I made, which may now be lost somewhere in the virtual airwaves, was that, basically, he seemed to me to be a racist. I don't ever consider a racists views. In, say 50 years time, will people be saying 'hmm I wonder whether the BNP were right?'. I hope I can leave this world in a better world that I fell into it.
Do you not think it is possible that you have been taught that he was racist therefore in your opinion he was a racist? He was a very talented and respected politician whose 'crime' was to voice the concern of his constituents and the larger British public at the time. Aren't politicians supposed to speak for their constituents or is this now old fashioned?
I don't know, you may be correct. I will never have any respect for the man. Not saying all people at those times where racist, but a lot where. My grandmother is, still. I live in Birmingham and she is always having a go at me because there are 'too many blacks and asians here', she never mentions the polish funnily enough. But you are right, politicians don't listen to there constituents these days which is a real shame. On one note, I just complained to the BBC that they are showing BNP adverts. Does anyone think this is ok? Other then BNP voters that is. I hate the BNP as well as many people; thank God. But do they deserve this? Is it really a freedom of speech? or is it only because they have the money to pay off the BBC? what do you think?
Do you think your Grandmother is racist because she was brainwashed by Enoch Powells speech or maybe Enoch Powell was voicing the concerns of the British public like your Grandmother. I really don't know what your concerns are about The BNP we all know what they stand for but make our own choices when voting. Would you like the BBC to pretend they don't exist? |
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quote: Originally posted by phillydun: quote: Originally posted by Geeza..: quote: Originally posted by phillydun:
I don't know, you may be correct. I will never have any respect for the man. Not saying all people at those times where racist, but a lot where. My grandmother is, still. I live in Birmingham and she is always having a go at me because there are 'too many blacks and asians here', she never mentions the polish funnily enough. But you are right, politicians don't listen to there constituents these days which is a real shame.
On one note, I just complained to the BBC that they are showing BNP adverts. Does anyone think this is ok? Other then BNP voters that is. I hate the BNP as well as many people; thank God. But do they deserve this? Is it really a freedom of speech? or is it only because they have the money to pay off the BBC? what do you think?
I don't support or vote for the BNP but to say that their opinion should not be aired or should be banned is fascistic in nature. Spot the irony?
Yes I do, I may not have made it very well but my point is freedom of speech and many other civil liberties have been taken off the citizens of this country, and that is a fact, look it up if you do not believe me. But should the BBC not have a bigger sense of dignity and give a voice to say the green party rather then the BNP who can throw more money at them?
I'm very surprised the BBC are showing BNP adverts, this is a change from their usual policy of dealing with the BNP, do you have a link? Personally the BBC should be un-political and non-biased like it used to be, unfortunately in recent years the BBC has become the mouth peace of New Labour. I no longer have any respect for the BBC whatsoever. |
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quote: Originally posted by Geeza..: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
Please ask the stuck up Poles who never traveled anywhere and who live in Poland not me. I am an emigrant and surely have a bit more open mind about these issues.
Are they stuck up because they prefer to stay in their country, work hard and put food on the table for their family?
Its because they fear anything that is slightly different. I know a person who changed class for her child at school because one (!) Gipsy child was admitted to that class. That is how stuck up they are there and that is why I do not want to live there or to have anything to do with this kind of emotionally cruel people. |
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quote: Originally posted by ada111: quote: Originally posted by phillydun: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
Please consider how you would feel if the shoe was on the other foot, with an open mind.
What do you mean by that? I have been surrounded by and tried to adjust myself to living with total "aliens" for 15 years now. Learned your language and your weird sense of humor , it not me who lacks an open mind.
But ADA, its just cultural difference. For example I don't think I will ever get used to Your food, but then again you may not ever get used to British food, or should I say 'British' food. I don't think that makes either of us racists.
Of course not. But earlier today one poster here said "immigrants should go back home" and generally made rasists remarks knowing that Poles are active on this board. I has made me very upset actually just when four years ago I got a leaflet from BNP with a slogan that Easter Europeans should go home. I think these are acts of cruelty and should be stopped. They are very hurtful and damaging. Or perhaps those pple want to have queues of Poles at the NHS Mental Health Departments suffering from depression? They surely contribute to making us feel like that. The thing is anti immigrant slogans are dividing peoples of this country instead of bridging communities together. Settled immigrants also have families in their countries of origin, putting not yet settled immigrants of these countries in a bad light is very unnerving for the settled immigrants.[/QUOTE] I think that reasons for these sentiments is that this country focuses everything on production and consumption. People want top jobs, and when they can not get these jobs they want to find something to put the blame on. As far as I am concerned I would rather have a doctor that had better qualifications and experience to operate on me then one that did not I could not care were they came from. Ada, I wonder were you are living. If you are in London then there is a free gig in Victoria park this Sunday for anti-racism - here is the link - http://www.lmhrcarnival.com/LMHR_carnival_lineup/ |
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quote: Originally posted by ada111: quote: Originally posted by Geeza..: quote: Originally posted by ada111:
Please ask the stuck up Poles who never traveled anywhere and who live in Poland not me. I am an emigrant and surely have a bit more open mind about these issues.
Are they stuck up because they prefer to stay in their country, work hard and put food on the table for their family?
Its because they fear anything that is slightly different. I know a person who changed class for her child at school because one (!) Gipsy child was admitted to that class. That is how stuck up they are there and that is why I do not want to live there or to have anything to do with this kind of emotionally cruel people.
I see, one example, do you not think you are judging a majority with your experience of a minority much like some of your comments about British people earlier? |
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quote: Originally posted by bigberther: quote: Originally posted by phillydun: quote: Originally posted by Geeza..: quote: Originally posted by phillydun:
Well I just tried to make a post but I am not sure whether it will come up because I called Enoch Powell a banker. The point I made, which may now be lost somewhere in the virtual airwaves, was that, basically, he seemed to me to be a racist. I don't ever consider a racists views. In, say 50 years time, wi
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