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I have just returned to this site after last night and have read the posts since, I think that ADA and some others are taking this as personal, this is a shame that some don't seem able to have a decent conversation without it getting personal, Ada has called the british people in previous posts some of the most racist and derogatory remarks I have ever heard!
I feel that this discussion is now at an end as it is now being targeted as personal to the Poles this certainly was not the case.
The Rivers of Blood speach was given by Enoch Powell, to voice the concerns of his constiuents about the level of immigration, something our politicians are now too scared to do.
We, The British are basically getting a little scared of Britain losing our identity and our human rights and we are saying back to you all, respect us and our ways too which seems to be not allowed!
This Forum has confirmed to me that we are now and always have been un-able to speak out!
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quote: Originally posted by cazie5:
The Rivers of Blood speach was given by Enoch Powell, to voice the concerns of his constiuents about the level of immigration, something our politicians are now too scared to do.
And he was proved to be so wrong! quote: We, The British are basically getting a little scared of Britain losing our identity and our human rights and we are saying back to you all, respect us and our ways too which seems to be not allowed!
How exactly have your human rights being lost? quote: This Forum has confirmed to me that we are now and always have been un-able to speak out!
Shame you haven't been here beforehand - it's been discussed ad-infitum. |
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quote: Originally posted by cazie5:
I have just returned to this site after last night and have read the posts since, I think that ADA and some others are taking this as personal, this is a shame that some don't seem able to have a decent conversation without it getting personal, Ada has called the british people in previous posts some of the most racist and derogatory remarks I have ever heard!
I feel that this discussion is now at an end as it is now being targeted as personal to the Poles this certainly was not the case.
!
Absolutely and it stifles debate. Not only that but it seems that it's ok to be racist toward but don't say anything whatsoever "against" yourself. One rule for one one for another. The fact is that we are a small country and we cannot have an open door, for everyone. The fact is that this country is way too soft. The fact ALSO is that it isn't the fault of the "immigrant" at all. Still, I could say that until I'm blue in the face but offence will be taken  And the whole topic, for most, has absolutely ZERO to do with skin colour, or specific nationalities. |
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quote: Originally posted by Forum Junkie:
The fact is that we are a small country and we cannot have an open door, for everyone.
Debate is also stifled by posting incorrect statements. |
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quote: Originally posted by Transient Reveries: quote: Originally posted by Forum Junkie:
Well I expect that from you
[sarcasm]Thanks for such a rich, interesting and intelligent contribution to the debate[/sarcasm]
And thanks for the usual immature childish responses when a person doesn't agree with you. Oh and [no sarcasm] |
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The point here is that like many other countries we need a points system .. end of
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quote: Originally posted by Transient Reveries: quote: Originally posted by MadWorld:
Sorry Trany - what exactly has Junkie said that is "incorrect statements"?
Less of the Tranny! quote: I agree with Junkie that we cannot have what is basically an open door immigration policy.
I thought you would as you've been pushing the wonderful piece of disinformation along for some time. Simple question; How can a visa system that rejects a significant amount of people applying (and a number who are dissuaded by embassy/consular officals from applying in the first place) be an open door policy? An open door policy would have to be a non-system where anyone could come a live here. As you well know that's not the case. I look forward to your answer.
The clue was in the word "basically" - so stop playing silly billie. The number of people that have come to this country in recent years - have 'basically' flooded in - but those pro-immigration always deny it. |
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quote: Originally posted by MadWorld:
The clue was in the word "basically" - so stop playing silly billie.
Yep I was a bit flumoxed by your use of the word. The Non-EU immigration system is either open or managed so I don't see how "basically" comes into it. quote: The number of people that have come to this country in recent years - have 'basically' flooded in - but those pro-immigration always deny it.
All of them? Even the ones who've gone through the visa hoops. You have interesting, and rather unique, definition of flood btw. |
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I believe that one of my human rights is freedom of speech.
My gripe is "not" with the people who come to Britain, but is with "Our own Government", too weak to address this excalating issue.
Britain is a wonderful country, full of oppotunities, great health care, benefits, housing,education.
Of course, this only applies if you're not born here.
I respect the people who come to work and pay their way, I as an employer have recruited several immigrants, in particular Polish. They have an excellent work ethic and rich & varied culture. The issue is with the "volume" of people flooding into the UK, with the sole intent to bleed us dry. This is neither good for our economy, nor for the reputations of the honest, hard working individuals who come here to experience our way of life, and earn a descent wage.
So before anyone else jumps on me, accusing me of rascism, think on. I'm an British citizen, English and proud to be, but I also respect others and their cultures. I simply expect the same in return in my own land.
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quote: Originally posted by cazie5:
I believe that one of my human rights is freedom of speech.
Again, how? quote: ....The issue is with the "volume" of people flooding into the UK, with the sole intent to bleed us dry. This is neither good for our economy, nor for the reputations of the honest, hard working individuals who come here to experience our way of life, and earn a descent wage.
I look forward to your evidence to back up this assertion. |
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A new report claims UK immigration figures are not accurate The number of immigrants entering the UK is far higher than government figures show, a new report suggests. Economic consultancy Capital Economics claims that net immigration in 2005 was actually 400,000, rather than the official figure of 185,000. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6234011.stm |
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On one of the early threads on this topic raised the example of Boston in Lincolnshire. Hazel Blears has now confirmed 25% of Boston's population is from eastern europe. My own guess is that closer to 40% of the population is non-native. Not a great fan of the Telegraph but this gives a pretty fair account of the situation. LINK One thing I would disagree with is the Blears assertion that the local economy needs the skills of the migrants. This is simply not true. The local economy of the Boston area has always paid rock bottom wages for agricultural and factory labour. The employers are simply now milking one cheap unskilled workforce in place of another as the indigenous population who used to do those jobs find life more agreeable on the dole. The locals do however consistently moan about migrants taking their jobs! If anyone wants to know what the effects of rapid and extensive immigration can do to a community, its economy, its education, health and social services - then I would thoroughly recommend a trip to Boston. Some of the folks who look at migration through rose tinted specs may then see if the hard facts go with their nice theories.  |
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quote: Originally posted by Transient Reveries: quote: Originally posted by MadWorld:
The clue was in the word "basically" - so stop playing silly billie.
Yep I was a bit flumoxed by your use of the word. The Non-EU immigration system is either open or managed so I don't see how "basically" comes into it. quote: The number of people that have come to this country in recent years - have 'basically' flooded in - but those pro-immigration always deny it.
All of them? Even the ones who've gone through the visa hoops. You have interesting, and rather unique, definition of flood btw.
Thank you for this, Transient Reveries, mostly appreciated.  |
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quote: Originally posted by Anonimouse: On one of the early threads on this topic raised the example of Boston in Lincolnshire. Hazel Blears has now confirmed 25% of Boston's population is from eastern europe. My own guess is that closer to 40% of the population is non-native. Not a great fan of the Telegraph but this gives a pretty fair account of the situation. LINK One thing I would disagree with is the Blears assertion that the local economy needs the skills of the migrants. This is simply not true. The local economy of the Boston area has always paid rock bottom wages for agricultural and factory labour. The employers are simply now milking one cheap unskilled workforce in place of another as the indigenous population who used to do those jobs find life more agreeable on the dole. The locals do however consistently moan about migrants taking their jobs! If anyone wants to know what the effects of rapid and extensive immigration can do to a community, its economy, its education, health and social services - then I would thoroughly recommend a trip to Boston. Some of the folks who look at migration through rose tinted specs may then see if the hard facts go with their nice theories.
Good link, however, I have learned my English before I left Poland to transfer to the University College London paying overseas student fees. Still had to take and pay for the knowledge of life in the Uk test and books required for the British Citizenship. |
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Nope - when vast numbers can come in virtually unchallenged - that is basically "open door".
Rationally, as descriptive linguistics to paint a TRUE picture - what do you call 400,000 immigrants - "a trickle"?
It is a vast number of people EVERY YEAR - no wonder we cannot cope and we are having more trouble with things like housing and congestion.
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quote: Originally posted by cazie5:
I believe that one of my human rights is freedom of speech.
My gripe is "not" with the people who come to Britain, but is with "Our own Government", too weak to address this excalating issue.
Britain is a wonderful country, full of oppotunities, great health care, benefits, housing,education.
Of course, this only applies if you're not born here.
I respect the people who come to work and pay their way, I as an employer have recruited several immigrants, in particular Polish. They have an excellent work ethic and rich & varied culture. The issue is with the "volume" of people flooding into the UK, with the sole intent to bleed us dry not sure I agree with this . This is neither good for our economy, nor for the reputations of the honest, hard working individuals who come here to experience our way of life, and earn a descent wage.
So before anyone else jumps on me, accusing me of rascism, think on. I'm an British citizen, English and proud to be, but I also respect others and their cultures. I simply expect the same in return in my own land.
good fair post though, as was Anons |
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Its so old hat to be fearful of new people coming in to this country. It is because of a political climate with the EU that more people are coming to this country. But in the future it is bound to change again.
Enoch Powell's speech was racist. There can be no question. Many many people are immigrants without even realising, and the truth is many of the jobs they do would not be done within this country. Many have also given us lots. It is not Enoch Powell who should be driving this debate. But we should have a proper debate about this - about the amount of people who are coming in. Without considering his racist speech, with real facts and considerations.
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quote: Originally posted by Transient Reveries: quote: Originally posted by MadWorld:
Nope - when vast numbers can come in virtually unchallenged - that is basically "open door".
Even the Non-EU ones? Some evidence please! quote: Rationally, as descriptive linguistics to paint a TRUE picture - what do you call 400,000 immigrants - "a trickle"?
Trickle is an emotive term as well. Why do you need to use emotive terms btw? quote: It is a vast number of people EVERY YEAR - no wonder we cannot cope and we are having more trouble with things like housing and congestion.
All depends how you define vast! Banging the same, and slightly monotonous drum, about housing and congestion again! You sound like a stuck record.
"Flood" is descriptive linguistics that paints a TRUE picture i.e. objective - is it my fault that the pro-immigration crowd get upset Where did I say "Even the Non-EU ones"? 400,000 immigrants is vast number of people whatever scale you want to use. |
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I'm sick of that "fear" word ... I fear no-one, most people I know who have issues with the whole topic (not immigrants per se and that INCLUDES 3rd generation immigrants also) do NOT fear people!
Racism = ignorance and fear maybe
Concern about immigration does not
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quote: Originally posted by MadWorld: "Flood" is descriptive linguistics that paints a TRUE picture i.e. objective - is it my fault that the pro-immigration crowd get upset
Er no - flood is a subjective term. quote: Where did I say "Even the Non-EU ones"?
You didn't as you've done your usual trick of not accepting that their are different rules for areas of the world (I wonder why?) |
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Depending where you are geographically (in Britain) it can certainly be a mess Flanker
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quote: Originally posted by ada111:
And who do you think you are to speak in this condescending tone to me
ermmmmmm look in the mirror |
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quote: Originally posted by phillydun:
Its so old hat to be fearful of new people coming in to this country. It is because of a political climate with the EU that more people are coming to this country. But in the future it is bound to change again.
Enoch Powell's speech was racist. There can be no question. Many many people are immigrants without even realising, and the truth is many of the jobs they do would not be done within this country. Many have also given us lots. It is not Enoch Powell who should be driving this debate. But we should have a proper debate about this - about the amount of people who are coming in. Without considering his racist speech, with real facts and considerations.
I think you are one of the posters who could benefit from a trip to Boston. |
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