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I only know a handful of Polish, kids at my sons school and their parents, I've never seen anyone be rude or racist toward them. The ones I've met are wonderful warm people.
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I think the types you speak of tompaine do exist, however I think they are in the extreme and ignorant minority.
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quote: Originally posted by Forum Junkie:
I think the types you speak of tompaine do exist, however I think they are in the extreme and ignorant minority.
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The only issue about the program I have is, Why nobody shows migrants that working here pay taxes, insurance, spend money in the shops, open bussineses, and how much money goes into the budget thanks to those immigrants, Why the programs shows only bad aspects of the immgration and dosn't show any postives. I've come to Scotland 4 years ago, I have been working in this on day to day basis and paying taxes and spending my money here, not taking benefits and definetly not cheat on them. And do U even imagine how many born brits do just that, they stilli8ng more money from the UK than I by being honestly working and paying every peny i owe.
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It must be so good to be so pure of heart! Another for an outing to Boston?  Life is here and now. It isn't a theoretical exercise, it's practical and it's pragmatic. We should learn from history it's true. We should plan for the future it's true. But we have to live in the present and the stupidity of allowing mass movement of populations on economic whims is simply unsustainable in the C21st whether they be Portuguese to Lincolnshire or Zimbabweans to South Africa. |
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quote: Originally posted by Arek:
The only issue about the program I have is, Why nobody shows migrants that working here pay taxes, insurance, spend money in the shops, open bussineses, and how much money goes into the budget thanks to those immigrants, Why the programs shows only bad aspects of the immgration and dosn't show any postives. I've come to Scotland 4 years ago, I have been working in this on day to day basis and paying taxes and spending my money here, not taking benefits and definetly not cheat on them. And do U even imagine how many born brits do just that, they stilli8ng more money from the UK than I by being honestly working and paying every peny i owe.
Yes absolutely, and they are the first ones to complain about the immigration. |
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quote: Originally posted by Forum Junkie:
Why can some people not say what they see and think, air their concerns without them being racist.
It's absolutely proposterous and it bugs the hell out of me
Yea as long as its not racist - Powell's speech was racist - the whole black man having the upper hand on the white man - he didn't predict that one right huh! - I do know of peoples sentiments towards this issue but feel he debate would be a lot more healthy if we got away from this issue. |
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Whats all this about maintaining british identity. Its an unatural union- formed our of antagonist races within themselves. I'm scottish if anything. We live in a feudal country, formally rule over by a Monarchy of Prussian antecendents. Immigration is a healthy process, if it compels people to realise that provincial proto-national ideals are the most moronic thing ever. Whats this stupidty about maintaining our christian identity? 75% of this country is atheist or agnostic- and of the percentage that our officially religous- it is only because they haven't formally renounced their archaic mythological fallacious belief, and are still on the church register.
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quote: Whats all this about maintaining british identity. Its an unatural union- formed our of antagonist races within themselves. I'm scottish if anything. We live in a feudal country, formally rule over by a Monarchy of Prussian antecendents. Immigration is a healthy process, if it compels people to realise that provincial proto-national ideals are the most moronic thing ever. Whats this stupidty about maintaining our christian identity? 75% of this country is atheist or agnostic- and of the percentage that our officially religous- it is only because they haven't formally renounced their archaic mythological fallacious belief, and are still on the church register.
Well said. I thought this country based its principals on individuality not pathetic patriotism - not like America..... please not like America |
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quote: Originally posted by Transient Reveries: quote: Originally posted by MadWorld: "Flood" is descriptive linguistics that paints a TRUE picture i.e. objective - is it my fault that the pro-immigration crowd get upset
Er no - flood is a subjective term. quote: Where did I say "Even the Non-EU ones"?
You didn't as you've done your usual trick of not accepting that their are different rules for areas of the world (I wonder why?)
For immigration problems - you haven't got it into your head yet - it doesn't matter where they come from or what their colour is or.... Fact: We have too many immigrants coming into the country to cope with the problems caused or made worse. BTW: Everybody from the Prime Ministers Office to the Local Government Association use the term "flood". "We would stress again however that this was a precautionary exercise, because the evidence suggested that the predicted flood of people coming here, which had been predicted whenever any enlargement has taken place in the past, wouldn't happen. Asked if the Government was considering putting a 'cap' on immigration numbers, the PMOS said that we hadn't yet reached the point where we had firm proposals to put forward. When we did, we would deal with all those issues." http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page5302.asp"By and large, the 2004 enlargement has been a success. Fears that there would be a flood of high immigration to the West have been largely unfounded, Europe now has a more mobile workforce and it has been possible to keep large numbers of jobs within the EU bloc. Nevertheless, there is a creeping realisation that Europe cannot keep expanding at the same rate, without there being some eventual payoff." |
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Well said. I thought this country based its principals on individuality not pathetic patriotism - not like America..... please not like America[/QUOTE]
We're slowly turning into America, man. And I for one am goin to stand up for what Britain was really built on.
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Also I cant believe channel 4 had the audacity to air such an apologist program. 'Oh i'm not a racist like' 'But...'. What happened to the silent factual and ethical journalism of Edward R. Morrow? The BBC is no better now. I think tabloids should be banned- primarily because it promotes ignorance, and causes hysteria.You lost the plot channel 4, as soon as you degenerated to the depths of reality television.
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quote: Originally posted by trigga1uk:
I find it all very depressing. Is this what everyone who comes here is after 'money'. The 'i can get more if i go here attitude' is really depressing. Are true values of community and national pride dead in a world where money comes first, it seems to be a priority for the Polish. I had a bit of a probelm with people that come here to drain as much as possible from us then strike their tents and bugger off home. A vulture springs to mind, pick the last pieces of off a corpse before you find a better option.
I'm sure that I'm responding late to your post - but that's not unusual! I just wanted to say that I watched this week’s episode and some of the inferences were depressing & challenging. a) that brits don't 'get' working abroad (I really thought we did as many pioneers /travellers /discoverers in world history were brits - and I met many a british consultant in the 80s who worked in Poland, and the ME etc for short and long periods (with wife and kids at home - and always calling essex home). b) These european migrants are obviously reacting to market forces and likely buy into the whole notion of 'Europe' more readily than some of us do. Also its quite evident I think that if you’ve been stifled economically that you’re likely to ‘do what it takes’ when the opportunity to better yourself presents itself! It strikes me that some brits have been able to move into this style of work and travel quite easily (that show The Black Stuff springs to mind) and that many more europeans are able to 'catch on' to this mode of work more readily than some of us. I wouldn't however call them vultures or ridicule them - many brits from the working and middle classes have been doing it well before the Pole was permitted to do so... its possible that our governments have understood and accepted this phenomenal change and neglected to inform the rest of us, or they just didn’t figure it out until now. In this week’s show Tebbit said that instead of getting on your bike to work we'll now have to get on a plane! (bearing in mind that many an unemployed minor got on a plane way back then - Did he know at the time or is this all a bit of a shock to those who were in control back then and those in government now? I don't believe that we can say that brits can travel the world to work and others can't or that it depends on the job they're doing - smacks of hypocrisy and superiority. We should be proud surely that we set the trend so long ago and that only now other nations are following in our footsteps? Time to educate our kids as to what career and job actually means or they too will be left behind. Or, we just opt out of Europe and continue to travel to Australia, New Zealand, and the US to work for 6 months to 6 yrs and continue to call anyone who comes here to do the same "vultures"! |
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Unfortunately Tompaine, it's those Rascist Sun Readers that have the vote.
Public opinion on this subject will always be divided, but yes, I agree, we are Americanising at a rate again, beyond our (The British populations) control, and we must preserve our heritage, but at what cost ??
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quote: Originally posted by ada111: quote: Originally posted by tompaine:
Well said. I thought this country based its principals on individuality not pathetic patriotism - not like America..... please not like America
We're slowly turning into America, man. And I for one am goin to stand up for what Britain was really built on- the ideas of David Hume, Ada, Smith and John Stuart Mill. Not the ramblings of arm-chair racist Sun readers.
Tompaine, is David Hume a poster's name? If nor I feel very humbled.  [/QUOTE] David Hume- rationalist philosopher |
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quote: Originally posted by ada111: quote: Originally posted by tompaine:
Well said. I thought this country based its principals on individuality not pathetic patriotism - not like America..... please not like America
We're slowly turning into America, man. And I for one am goin to stand up for what Britain was really built on- the ideas of David Hume, Ada, Smith and John Stuart Mill. Not the ramblings of arm-chair racist Sun readers.
Tompaine, is David Hume a poster's name? If nor I feel very humbled. [/QUOTE] Ha ha. Well thats the fault of the culture of this country - people are scared for Tibet because they are at risk of their culture being lost. But what about here, in this country, we have x-factor. Thats killing our culture!!!!!!!! I have nothing against America - but they are not the way forward. British citizens should not be so in awe of America like our phony government - (im trying to remember not to swear on this board)- I love the argument - immigrants are taking away our culture, when I bet you all they are tucking into a curry. You know that clash song - i'm so bored of the usa - Im going to have that played at my funeral |
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Persecution of an indivdual or group, for their beliefs or opinions.
Ring any bells ??
Lets all resort to name calling & personal slures, really intelligent !!
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I love the irony of Tom Paine promoting the notion of the capitalist exploitation of labour! That's all this is - an economic migration and re-migration. The problem with it is not racial but social. A country that has an economy built on credit and retail has no facility to cope with mass immigration. It has no infrastructure to support economic migrants once the jobs dry up and the migrants are entitled to demand the same benefit structure as everyone else. If you think about it very few migrants could actually contribute more than they take from the UK in such circumstances especially if they have a family. We are not so different in this respect to other nations that have had similar rapid migrations. West Germany suffered similarly in the 1980s and Germany as a whole since the fall of the Wall - hence the not very much publicised resurrection of the Right in that country. Is it coincidence that France too has seen a resurgence of right wing feelings? I think not. The price of opening the borders deliberately or by default is simply too high and in the long term is not going to benefit anyone. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately for them, Hume & co did not have to come forth with political theories in a pan-capitalist world. |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Anonimouse:
.. A country that has an economy built on credit and retail has no facility to cope with mass immigration. It has no infrastructure to support economic migrants once the jobs dry up and the migrants are entitled to demand the same benefit structure as everyone else.
Why would jobs dry up? Discuss.
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quote: Originally posted by Anonimouse: I love the irony of Tom Paine promoting the notion of the capitalist exploitation of labour! That's all this is - an economic migration and re-migration. The problem with it is not racial but social. A country that has an economy built on credit and retail has no facility to cope with mass immigration. It has no infrastructure to support economic migrants once the jobs dry up and the migrants are entitled to demand the same benefit structure as everyone else. If you think about it very few migrants could actually contribute more than they take from the UK in such circumstances especially if they have a family. We are not so different in this respect to other nations that have had similar rapid migrations. West Germany suffered similarly in the 1980s and Germany as a whole since the fall of the Wall - hence the not very much publicised resurrection of the Right in that country. Is it coincidence that France too has seen a resurgence of right wing feelings? I think not. The price of opening the borders deliberately or by default is simply too high and in the long term is not going to benefit anyone. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately for them, Hume & co did not have to come forth with political theories in a pan-capitalist world.
Of course it racial. Don't be so naive, and don't think for second I promote capitalism; yet the predominance of the people that post on these debates do so to propagate their vile little opinions. That was the intial reason I logged onto this debate- I knew this is what i would find. I the only reason you care about rapid migration- is that you have some sentimental feelings of some non-existent british identity. |
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That is why we are standing up and saying enough immigration, which we have every right to say, and to say we object to being ethnically and culturally cleased by mass immigration, which is the real racism taking place here. In this we have a right as stated under artcle 15 of the UN Convention of human rights, which states everybody has a right to a nationality.[/QUOTE]
What , suddenly , after ages of immigration happening in this country?
What is British identity then? making servants from immigrants and not giving them rights to health and education? Perhaps you are longing for the Victorian times and are unable to embrace ever changing world.
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When I was a child I lived in an area where there was no-one from foreign descent, I didn't know anyone foreign, I wasn't taught about foreign religions or ways, I was taught about Great Britain, If a foreign teacher came in and could hardly speak english back then there would have been an outrage!
As a young child I had the pleasure of being able to roam freely out in the open to play, knowing everyone in each house for all the streets around us, there were far less cars as there was far less people,
I have three children who cannot play freely due to the dangers out there, And before you all start on me again, I am talking about the fact that more cars on the roads are dangerous, the fact that neighbourhoods are becoming places full of strangers, I Live in the same part of the country I was brought up in, and can honestly say that my town is un-recognisable, This is not soley down to immigration but mainly down to bad leadership, and frankly I'm getting bored of having to defend the fact that I would like to say I want england back the way it used to be!
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That is why we are standing up and saying enough immigration, which we have every right to say, and to say we object to being ethnically and culturally cleased by mass immigration, which is the real racism taking place here. In this we have a right as stated under artcle 15 of the UN Convention of human rights, which states everybody has a right to a nationality.[/QUOTE]
As previously mentioned, all we want is to preserve our (British) nationality.
I am acceptant of all newcomers and freely accept their own, origin identities. Please extend me the same courtesy.
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