quote:

Originally posted by Samir S:
What did people make of Rageh as a presenter?

In answer to this question I asked one back because I could not understand why they chose Rageh as presenter: after talking to a number of people on this, I realise now why Rageh was chosen and he was the right person after all...mainly because he has seen both sides of the coin and can relate...the type of person who I suggested as presenter would have only seen one side of the coin, so to speak. Please accept my apoligies for my ignorance on this on the night

(you better answer me this time ed!)

quote:

Originally posted by bagel queen:

quote:

Originally posted by Samir S:
What did people make of Rageh as a presenter?

In answer to this question I asked one back because I could not understand why they chose Rageh as presenter:

My guess is he was chosen because he is an immigrant and therefore Rageh and channel 4 could not be accused of racsim and or xenophobia.

How messed up is that?

I cant be bothered to go into the whys and wherefores...but I understand a lot more than I did last week!

quote:

Originally posted by bagel queen:
I cant be bothered to go into the whys and wherefores...but I understand a lot more than I did last week!

You don't need to, the 'whys' and the 'wherefores' are as follows:

"Rageh and channel 4 could not be accused of racsim and or xenophobia"

Geeza wrote:

quote:

My guess is he was chosen because he is an immigrant and therefore Rageh and channel 4 could not be accused of racsim and or xenophobia.

Hi. And therefore at first glance I got an impression that immigrants turned against immigrants - what might well have been a very manipulation to fuel it all yet more:
-first of all, native people were given sort of nodding that even long ago settled immigrants dislike new influx (what might, might not be the truth)
- secondly, newcomers got a feeling that long ago settled immigrants suddenly claim to be somehow superior and reserve right of immigration to themselves exclusively (and therefore long ago settled immigrants were put whether they liked or not to the first row of marching troops of the establishment to get hurt first in case of defeat)

How dirty tactic this is actually to avoid responsibility?

quote:

Originally posted by Piotr/Peter:
Geeza wrote:

quote:

My guess is he was chosen because he is an immigrant and therefore Rageh and channel 4 could not be accused of racsim and or xenophobia.

Hi. And therefore at first glance I got an impression that immigrants turned against immigrants - what might well have been a very manipulation to fuel it all yet more:
-first of all, native people were given sort of nodding that even long ago settled immigrants dislike new influx (what might, might not be the truth)
- secondly, newcomers got a feeling that long ago settled immigrants suddenly claim to be somehow superior and reserve right of immigration to themselves exclusively (and therefore long ago settled immigrants were put whether they liked or not to the first row of marching troops of the establishment to get hurt first in case of defeat)

How dirty tactic this is actually to avoid responsibility?

Hi Peter, how are you?

I'm sorry but I'm struggling to follow what you are saying here.

I think you are saying that immigrants from decades ago are now opposed to newer immigrants coming here, if this is what you are saying you would be correct, quite a few are.

By the way Peter there are other forums and you will find a lot of the commentators to this thread usually hang around the Channel 4 News forum.

Click on the News link at the top of the page then click on Channel 4 News to find it.

If you are interested of course.

Geeza wrote:

quote:

I think you are saying that immigrants from decades ago are now opposed to newer immigrants coming here, if this is what you are saying you would be correct, quite a few are.

Hey, I'm OK, and yourself? There you go, immigrants from decades ago opposing newcomers. What I say is that they were quite put in a first row of this whole immigration battle thing during Rageh's coverage.

They were used in my opinion so to fuel unsettling situation. Suddenly native people are given a signal that even immigrants from decades ago are against the newcomers.

Not mentioning that people like myself are give clear signals saying that once they settled down well, they apparently forgot why they came here in first place and what was their status, how hard this was for them to defend their rights at times. They fail to recognise how hard this also is for the newcomers - or they don't want to recognise this cos they are still more into their own suffering they experienced decades ago thinking that the newcomers lead an easy life here. Or, they are lazy and running out of opportunities cos suddenly there is an outperforming group of people who want make their own way here. Now they apparently decline other people the chance they were given - quite hypocritical in my opinion.

That's why I think they were used so to focus anger of people like myself on them rather than the media and native communities. And ... if they really think so, am really outraged by such hypocrisy.

As to other groups, yeah, but I feel really weary of this all now, you know, shall I immigrate to the North Pole to satisfy all opponents?

quote:

Originally posted by Piotr/Peter:
Geeza wrote:

quote:

I think you are saying that immigrants from decades ago are now opposed to newer immigrants coming here, if this is what you are saying you would be correct, quite a few are.

Hey, I'm OK, and yourself? There you go, immigrants from decades ago opposing newcomers. What I say is that they were quite put in a first row of this whole immigration battle thing during Rageh's coverage.

They were used in my opinion so to fuel unsettling situation. Suddenly native people are given a signal that even immigrants from decades ago are against the newcomers.

Not mentioning that people like myself are give clear signals saying that once they settled down well, they apparently forgot why they came here in first place and what was their status, how hard this was for them to defend their rights at times. They fail to recognise how hard this also is for the newcomers - or they don't want to recognise this cos they are still more into their own suffering they experienced decades ago thinking that the newcomers lead an easy life here. Or, they are lazy and running out of opportunities cos suddenly there is an outperforming group of people who want make their own way here. Now they apparently decline other people the chance they were given - quite hypocritical in my opinion.

That's why I think they were used so to focus anger of people like myself on them rather than the media and native communities. And ... if they really think so, am really outraged by such hypocrisy.

As to other groups, yeah, but I feel really weary of this all now, you know, shall I immigrate to the North Pole to satisfy all opponents?

Take no notice. Living well in the best revenge. I think I start speaking with song lyrics now... Accelerate R.E.M.

quote:

Originally posted by Narky100:

quote:

Originally posted by Piotr/Peter:
Narky wrote:

quote:

i dodnt like the way C4 seemed to say capatalisation and immigration was inevitable we should let countries develop at their own rate.

Yeah, and of course please lock up your borders tightly and cease global trade cos otherwise you're be flooded with products and have nothing to offer so to pay for them back. There are major economies emerging on the horizon like India and China. And you don't think you have to stay competitive, right? Erm, perhaps you think you're so competitive that you don't need any more growth cos it's not sustainable ... perhaps you think people cannot give out of themselves more than you do ... oh well .. they can and they will and if you continue believing that you can rest now, you'll be deeply sorry of this in the future.

I believe we should let in the right people. I think the british people have been creative pioneers. i am wary of throwing this away on a dream that globalisation and capatilisation is a good thing i think the british charisma should not be played with to fast.. Whats happening in china and india has begung so i will support it, maybe immigration is enevitable but i think we are mad if we dont control our borders and continue to allow a lot of good Brits to leave at the current rate.

I agree, and, I think people like Peter are right, just read his English, it is better than some of the "natives" who lived here for generations. I have seen a group of people today who looked like they were heading to a wedding but had terribly mismatched outfits. And these silky expensive dresses together with heavy black cheap boots. Rany Boskie ! They spoke foreign language. I realized I could understand every word.... I felt ashamed... Where did they came from?

But now how would you regulate mass emigration like this? Point system? Closed borders? What?

There is a free market in Europe and Poland is part of EU. The best people, as you put it, who also might be from Poland would feel held back, and waste their energy and time on bureaucracy, intimidation by the legal system etc. Look: just after I finished my MA here at UCL I was offered a job at a University which I took and was good at, but in the meantime I got a letter from the Home Office to leave the country in 10 days because of the wrongly filled application. That was in 2001. I was recommended by someone from my University for this job, someone who knew me for 5 years and thought I was particularly good at seminars. The Head of the dep. at University I worked at thought I would be very good because I was fresh from a prestigious Dept. at UCL and thought I was good and my work was good and I was offered the job, I did not have to even ask of fill in the application. But than the letter arrived from the Home Office and it all came crushing down on me, paperwork, solicitors, tax papers, having to ask for letters from the University I worked at for the Home Office - all quite embarrassing and traumatizing experience. The students already knew me and felt uneasy as they had to suddenly get used to another, new teacher with different approach. The department suffered, the students suffered, I suffered, my bank account suffered with the solicitors fees. If all the regulations were in place between my country and Britain at the time my life would have been normal. Why do I have to care for the cleaners? A-ha ! I am constantly asked if I am one on the grounds that I am Polish - by strangers.

Yes, I agree that situation has to change, but not only for the Brits (although I am also a Brit now).

quote:

Originally posted by Geeza..:

quote:

Originally posted by bagel queen:
I cant be bothered to go into the whys and wherefores...but I understand a lot more than I did last week!

You don't need to, the 'whys' and the 'wherefores' are as follows:

"Rageh and channel 4 could not be accused of racsim and or xenophobia"

whatever you say sir

I agree, and, I think people like Peter are right, just read his English, it is better than some of the "natives" who lived here for generations. I have seen a group of people today who looked like they were heading to a wedding but had terribly mismatched outfits. And these silky expensive dresses together with heavy black cheap boots. Rany Boskie ! They spoke foreign language. I realized I could understand every word.... I felt ashamed... Where did they came from?

they are still human beings whatever country they are from. I for one would not look down on anybody looking for a better life, some of the posts on here are so arrogant.

quote:

Originally posted by bagel queen:
I agree, and, I think people like Peter are right, just read his English, it is better than some of the "natives" who lived here for generations. I have seen a group of people today who looked like they were heading to a wedding but had terribly mismatched outfits. And these silky expensive dresses together with heavy black cheap boots. Rany Boskie ! They spoke foreign language. I realized I could understand every word.... I felt ashamed... Where did they came from?

did not get posts name who wrote above...piotr?

they are still human beings whatever country they are from. I for one would not look down on anybody looking for a better life, some of the posts on here are so arrogant.

some will never be a "TRUE BRIT" they may get "British Citizenship"...that is all...people run this country down then ask for british citizenship! why? lol!

quote:

Originally posted by bagel queen:
some will never be a "TRUE BRIT" they may get "British Citizenship"...that is all...people run this country down then ask for british citizenship! why? lol!

I agree. Having a British Citizenship still does not make one feel welcome in this country. There is a lot of discrimination on the grounds of original nationality.

As opposed the USA Britain however does not ask new citizens to renounce previous citizenship(s). I think it speaks volumes what this country's values really are and on what values it has been build on - tolerance, but you got to cherish those values otherwise they will become extinct. They are man-made, if we did not have them we would still live in the caves. Tolerance is why people want to come to the UK in the first place.

As to obsessively trying to become a 'TRUE BRIT'I would not care less.

quote:

Originally posted by bagel queen:
I agree, and, I think people like Peter are right, just read his English, it is better than some of the "natives" who lived here for generations. I have seen a group of people today who looked like they were heading to a wedding but had terribly mismatched outfits. And these silky expensive dresses together with heavy black cheap boots. Rany Boskie ! They spoke foreign language. I realized I could understand every word.... I felt ashamed... Where did they came from?

they are still human beings whatever country they are from. I for one would not look down on anybody looking for a better life, some of the posts on here are so arrogant.

Are you a good dresser? You do not have to spend fortune to dress well, but that is just my opinion. What do you think?

The problem is not immigrants per se but immigrant overload and everybody in problem places want to come here to the land of the free..literally.


We have our own problems here with gangs and violence on the street corner. Perhaps if some of the countries the immigrants were moving from sorted themselves out i.e. Governments living in luxury whilst the population lives in hell in their own country.

quote:

Originally posted by dandini:
The problem is not immigrants per se but immigrant overload and everybody in problem places want to come here to the land of the free..literally.


We have our own problems here with gangs and violence on the street corner. Perhaps if some of the countries the immigrants were moving from sorted themselves out i.e. Governments living in luxury whilst the population lives in hell in their own country.

Yes, I agree. But this is where the paradox comes in here. Poland has sorted out itself, abolished communism with peaceful means, has transformed its government since 1990, and I am not saying that it had to learn the democracy, in fact Poland has been one of the first openly democratic countries of Europe since the Enlightment. A candidate for the mayor of London however uses a slogan "we gave the world democracy". Although in some countries cases it might be true but is a far too simplistic assertion.

Adriana, hi, how's things?

Adriana wrote:

quote:

I agree, and, I think people like Peter are right, just read his English, it is better than some of the "natives" who lived here for generations.

Cheers, there's so much left to gather though. Look up the dictionary. There are listed roughly 500K words cos of lack of wider inflection forms in this language. How one possibly could catch up on such numbers! Lol, mass influx of new words and phases to my head, help, help, they still my identity As to privilege of being here, I don't even care any longer, sure my rights ain't going nowhere, lol. Though hackneyed phrases of some hostile people turn them into nothing. Nevertheless, one can make oneself home anywhere they want - it just takes a lot of guts.

quote:

I have seen a group of people today who looked like they were heading to a wedding but had terribly mismatched outfits. And these silky expensive dresses together with heavy black cheap boots. Rany Boskie ! They spoke foreign language. I realized I could understand every word.... I felt ashamed... Where did they came from?

Give'em a chance though Skim smaller towns here and you'll learn quickly what nationality the majority of teenyboppers are. So, don't feel ashamed! The lot you saw ain't any worse than many of native folks. That's why no one should abstain from getting to know people around oneself no matter they are one's countrymen, foreigners or aliens When one talks to people, one always broadens their lives somewhat, right? Let chances happen and they will, or suppress them and expect clashes later on. Anyhoo, you would be surprised how fast people can learn if encouraged. Put them off and they won't participate or learn at all.

quote:

they still my identity

I meant they steal my identity

Give'em a chance though Skim smaller towns here and you'll learn quickly what nationality the majority of teenyboppers are. So, don't feel ashamed! The lot you saw ain't any worse than many of native folks. That's why no one should abstain from getting to know people around oneself no matter they are one's countrymen, foreigners or aliens When one talks to people, one always broadens their lives somewhat, right? Let chances happen and they will, or suppress them and expect clashes later on. Anyhoo, you would be surprised how fast people can learn if encouraged. Put them off and they won't participate or learn at all.[/QUOTE]

Why would I want to speak with zdziry? or skinheads? Are you nuts? But that is just a very rare, occasional encounter in London. Most of the Polas I hear/see on the tube and streets and buses are nice people. Every time it makes me wanna run up to them , shout "Rodacy !!!" (translation: compatriots) and give them a hug.