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I am an immigrant. I have been living in the UK for 10 years, pay my taxes, pay all my bills, participate in the community to the fullest extent possible. Has a day gone where there wasn't a disparaging article about immigrants in at least one of the national papers? To all those claiming Brits are not immigrants I must ask, have you ever heard of Canada, USA, South Africa, Australia, and on and on... My mothers mothers family is from Blackpool, her father is from Hamilton. My fathers mothers family is from somewhere in Wales and his mothers family is from somewhere in the South of England.. I am an immigrant, but I am also a returning Brit, living proof that Brits do indeed migrate around the world.
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Press on regardless!
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Hi, I'm new to discussion, yes it was a good doc, but i didn't like the conclusion, i felt the presentor was siding with the fact that we have to embrace the situation rather than reject it like we don't have a choice. In other words out the window go's family and family values, staying with your home etc. Think how disruptive peoples with family having to live abroad or move abroad will become for good family life?
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C4 Commissioner
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quote: Originally posted by Beaubeau:
Hello
I don't remember Rageh asking the immigrants why it was Britain they came to as opposed to France, Germany etc (although I think I know the answer).
Also the program showed why immigration has brought no benefit to the country. Immigrants living several to a house to keep down costs and then sending as much money as they can back home means they are not buying the goods and services to benefit OUR economy. Yes they pay tax but that is not enough as we need people spending their disposable income here. So they get instant access to the NHS and free school education for their children but contribute much less to the overall pot than the indigenous people. It's a recipe for disaster and the pressure is rising.
If your point is that they come to the UK because of the welfare state ... then who knows? After all, Germany has been dealing with Turkish Gastarbeiter for years....... As to why Rageh did not ask "why Britain?" - well, we are broadcasting to a UK audience...... |
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Programme-Maker
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quote: Originally posted by Gouryella: quote: Originally posted by Samir S:
What did people make of Rageh as a presenter?
  I thought he was very good,he usually is.
Thank you - I shall pass that on to Rageh |
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quote: Originally posted by Joshh:
One thing people often forget (although it was touched on in the programme) is how hard it is to move country, especially when you don't speak the language.
No one would do it if there wasn't a strong work ethic and determination to suceed, and that is something that can benefit the host country.
But if I were to move country I would learn the language before I went and try and speak it when I got there. A lot of the immigrants on the show had to be translated. I am planning on moving to Japan at some point and so I am starting Japanese lessons in the near future. |
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I found the programme a real disappointment, and high jacked by people with a particular view .i.e. the presenter, and the producer. The British people are desperate for an open debate, and all they received was lazy. Biased reporting. I am married to an immigrant, and not a racist, and I don’t have a problem with people coming here to work. I do have a problem with the level of people coming here to life that are completely opposite to the birth culture, and have no intention of changing, and I don’t mean polish.
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Some thoughts I've had on the points raised in this program:
1. If the majority of immigrants moving into any given country are only their for financial reasons, what likelihood is there that they will contribute in anyway to the existing communities in terms of integration and respect for their environment? Why would a migrant have any motivation to pay tax, maintain their property, drive with a license, etc when there's very little risk of getting caught if they stay 'off the radar'?
2. If, as the program suggests, people globally become forced into a nomadic lifestyle chasing money, how exactly has that improved anyones quality of life? Surely that's almost worse than the outcome predicted in the rivers of blood speech because rather than fighting each other for some form of freedom, people will have accepted virtual slavery to multinational corporations chasing a finanical freedom they will never achieve.
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Yes, but a compulsory one. What is all this EU thing really. Where is it going in the long run? I bet the likes of napolean and Hitler must be kicking themselves. All that war and killing they tried in an attempt to control europe. The EU has done it without firing a shot. In the modern world mass beuracracy is far more effective than regiments of tanks and troops.
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quote: Originally posted by Gouryella: quote: Originally posted by Samir S:
What did people make of Rageh as a presenter?
I thought he was very good,he usually is.
Yes he was good..but why did you not use an authentic white English person or do you think they do not exsist anymore? dont all shout at once!
Be Yourself Coz Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind. BLUE BAGEL BLUE!
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Thank you for an interesting programme.
Comments:
1, My mother's family come from Wales, and frankly I also feel the link to her country, to the extent of learning the language. I can see where the Punjabis were coming from.
2, It is unfortunate that the whole immigration business became tied into skin colour. It should not have been. I remember my parents generation who objected to Pakistanis and Irish for exactly the same reason. The are here to take over our country. (There is also colour prejudice, but that is not the whole story)
3, I've also worked as an immigrant worker in Germany, for exactly the same reason and the Poles. I do however still feel a connection to Germany, and have considered going back there permanently.
4, Separate Communities are, you argue, dangerous. Presumably because any incident can be so easily blown up.
I used to live in Lozells. The account of the riot reminded me of the Medaeval stories of Christian babies being sacrificed by Jews. What is worrying is the ease with which the stoy was believed without any hard evidence.
Question
Given the separate communities, how do you see them in the future:
- permanent feature.
- withering away over the next 100 years
- destroyed by pogroms
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quote: Originally posted by Samir S:
When I first considered the idea I didn't think Powell's speech had enough in it. But I think it did and it was a good peg to examine the issues. Although as you will have seen from the last programme, we did think that his particular view was now obsolete
I have to disagree and say harking back to Powell after every section held the programmes back and wasted a lot of time. The conclusion that a speech made in 1968 failed to accurately predict economic migration in Britain in 2008 was a particularly irrelevant and pointless way to end the series. As I mentioned, I know this is prime-time (semi?)-commercial TV, but I don't see how the issue of immigration in Britain today needs a 'hook' or 'angle'. The findings of the poll you commissioned should surely have provided enough to chew over. |
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The "Brits" have moved over the years for work Scots to Canada.....mine workers moved the lenght and breathed of the Country through ecomonic neccessity.....the point that was made clearly by the programme, is that our present work (shy) force do not have the where withall to look beyond the the end of the next Giro for a job
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quote: ps.
look at the state of english football nowadays-so many foreigners that even if i was excelent football player i would have no chance:-)
you might have a chance at Derby County ;-) |
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I have a question. Why do Brtistish always portray Polish people as the ones who are after benefits, and as the above person pointed out lie about their identity. How about those who are successful, who are at universities, wanting to build a future for themselves in this country? Im sure a lot of Polish people will feel offended and deeply hurt by this documentry. I was...
ewa_jr
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quote: Originally posted by C4 Admin: After the third and concluding part of Rageh Omaar’s documentary ‘Immigration The Inconvenient Truth’, the programme-makers will be here in the Dispatches forum to discuss the programme with you. If you have any questions for them you can leave them below now or join us here from 9pm on 21st April. To find out more about 'Immigration The Inconvenient Truth' visit the Dispatches website. Watch Episode 2 You can watch last week's episode on 4oD or a sample clip here. First time on Channel 4 Forums? Sign up to comment now. We'll process your registration as soon as possible so you can start posting. C4 Communtities
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quote: Originally posted by Ed B.: quote: Originally posted by Beaubeau:
Hello
I don't remember Rageh asking the immigrants why it was Britain they came to as opposed to France, Germany etc (although I think I know the answer).
Also the program showed why immigration has brought no benefit to the country. Immigrants living several to a house to keep down costs and then sending as much money as they can back home means they are not buying the goods and services to benefit OUR economy. Yes they pay tax but that is not enough as we need people spending their disposable income here. So they get instant access to the NHS and free school education for their children but contribute much less to the overall pot than the indigenous people. It's a recipe for disaster and the pressure is rising.
If your point is that they come to the UK because of the welfare state ... then who knows? After all, Germany has been dealing with Turkish Gastarbeiter for years....... As to why Rageh did not ask "why Britain?" - well, we are broadcasting to a UK audience......
oh come on plese!
Be Yourself Coz Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind. BLUE BAGEL BLUE!
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quote: Originally posted by jimboy007:
Hi, As far as I remember, the EU was 6 countries wanting free trade ! Now half the world either belongs, or wants to belong to Europe. No politician has asked me if I wanted Poland or the rest of them to join the EU! Undoubtedly we have many of our own politicians with jobs, directorships and squiddgy hands in all sorts of pies that make them money, but when will the Brits ever get the opportunity to say what they think???
With regards to the Poles, Bulgarians and Romanians etc, then if they want to come to this country to work, then fine, just let's operate a similar system to the USA where they get a green card, emergency medical attention only, no priority for living 24 to a house, no translators, and more fundementally, no family allowances either here or to be sent back home unless they have worked and paid taxes for at least 5 years.
If I went to Poland and asked for a council house, I would not be understood, I would not get a translator, I would not get benefits and I would have to sleep on the street.
Why are we so damned stupid? purely because of people like Teflon Tony, God Gordon and every stupid MP who doesn't have to live near them, compete for housing, benefits, work and most importantly equality for UK Citizens amongst them.
No wonder Brits are leaving in drones, but I bet they can't take their family allowances with them !!!!
You would be understood, you would get benefits and you would not sleep on the street. I gurantee this without doubt... And that's the whole idea of EU... |
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The main problem is when immigrants come to settle and yet do not integrate. The eastern europeans make a massive effort to learn our language and integrate, albeit because that helps them make more money, but they do better than some immigrants who move to our country, hold on to their culture and language, bring their kids up like that and try to convince everyone else to follow them.
The fact is we live in a global economy and much like electronics it is now the employee who is also a product and a resource. And just like electronics if you can get a better value for your employees then you are more likely to hire them. From what I've seen the eastern europeans are also better overall. To make life better for our workers we could improve their quality of work and their attitude.
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C4 Commissioner
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quote: Originally posted by ScottybNUFC:
Hi, I'm new to discussion, yes it was a good doc, but i didn't like the conclusion, i felt the presentor was siding with the fact that we have to embrace the situation rather than reject it like we don't have a choice. In other words out the window go's family and family values, staying with your home etc. Think how disruptive peoples with family having to live abroad or move abroad will become for good family life?
I think it would be disruptive ..... but migration has a long history ...... and our point is that disruption is increasingly the ecnomic name of the game...from Get on Your Bike to Get on Your Plane..... |
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quote: Originally posted by Samir S:
What did people make of Rageh as a presenter?
Dear program-creators, congratulations for an interesting program. I thoroughly enjoyed. Rageh was really good. I thought he handled this sensitive issue nicely. Rageh well done! I too felt that third part was bit abrupt (Or maybe I missed the point). I'd have liked if some facts were further backed by more logical interpretation. Scary to see Britons dispise immigrants this much (from the first program!) |
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quote: Originally posted by Ed B.:
I disagree. Our point by the end of the series was that Enoch Powell turned out to be limited in his perspective and that, in turn, means that perhaps he should no longer be deployed as a cornerstone in the immigration debate. And should we go abroad? what about Australia? Or the US? Nothing new .... but perhaps we should have a longer and more critical historical perspective.
You may have been onto something when you say that not all of the immigrants are coming to stay and become citizens, although I think people know that. Travel has become a lot easier since the 1960s, when emigration used to mean you'd never see someone again. In the programme I think some of the facts could have been interpreted differently. For example, you say that 82% (or whatever the number was) of current immigrants intend on going home. But that means 18% of a very big number intends to stay. If you just take the numbers intending to stay, how does this compare with the numbers in the past? And does it matter if people are intending on going home, if new ones are coming all the time? I highly doubt that the 10% of all people in Britain being foreign figure will go down. Finally, as others have said, I found the programme's conclusion that low-skilled British workers should go and get a better job abroad (where exactly is this mythical place where they will they get paid more than here?), totally absurd. Was this conclusion based on any sort of research? |
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As virtually every point Powell made was proved right how do you come to the conclusion it was irrelevant.
What his speech was about was the impact of demographic change. And that if people dont integrate into a society then they will form different groups (Multiculturalism). This may not lead to violence when times are good but when times are bad different groups will compete for resources, which can lead to riots and wars.
So far times have been good for the las 20 years or so.
What Trevor Phillips said was wrong too. He said that in the past people thought they were just moving around the Empire.
The total Ethnic minority population in the UK in about 1950 was 100,000. India and Pakistan gained indpendance in 1947. So all the subsequent immigration was not people wandering the Empire, they had their own countries.
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Programme-Maker
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quote: Originally posted by anecdotal evidence:
In concluding Rageh suggested that we will in the future all become economic migrants travelling around looking for work. This outlook is deeply floored in that it does not take into consideration the role of women in raising families. Once you have children it is not possible to move around the globe at a whim. In fact in this entire programme women were very poorly represented and in tonights edition English working women were left out completely.
If you are young, single, male this globetrotting lifestyle is certainly feasible, but for older people,the disabled or those with families it is a different ball game.
I am not sure you are quite right here. Many of the Poles who have come here are young women - not, I agree, many with children. But we did try and seek interviews with women but found that men were more ready to talk. A pity |
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