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quote: Originally posted by stevo1965:
Would we get the same benefits in Poland or any other country that these people get here in the UK? I think not! Its one thing to claim that because their country is in the EU they have the right to housing, education, health care and benefits at our expense. France and Germany are member states as well. Do you think the migrants would travel as far as the UK if they could get the same benefits in France and Germany. We are a soft touch and I don't blame the Polish or any other nationality taking advantage. Its our own government thats at fault. Charity begins at home.
yes you would get the same benefits but the question is why are we talking about benefits if polish people do not claim them cause they working hard 4 their future.... as far as I know it is english people that actually live on benefits |
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 Good programme English people have all reasons to be worried about the safety of theyer jobs when they are competing against better skield workers. The goverment is making it to easy for some people to live on benefits and that's why some people don't want to work so you have to import work force. It is happening in my country Romania where they are bringing chinessse workers for textile facories because our workers are gone to other countrys to work. I have been a international worker myself for the last 5 years worked in China Thailand korea and UK. But at the end of the day it is up to the individual if he wants to choose this paths. As an outsider i find it very bad the fact that non uk born people can claim child bennefits or house bennefits. This is the gouverment fault and you should bring them down. I am going back to my country in the next couple of years and I am also taking my english husband with me so he will be an imigrant in Romania in a way. |
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Firstly would like to say this time more optimistic view on us - Poles, just did not like these dogs playing around (trailer for the program.
I also like one point of the presenter telling that English people are not ready for big changes. This is true. Europe is changing. We need to follow it and accept it. More programs should be made about positive factors that immigration brings in Europe and UK.
On the 01.05.2004 Poland joined EU and as a result huge wave of polish workers came to UK. Before this happen The Sun and other tabloids had started a ‘spam’ of ridiculous articles about upcoming consequences. Today, it is estimated that over one million Polish people came to the UK.
The situation and attitudes toward polish people have not changed too much. Complaints come from different parts of social and economical life: employment, education and so on.
Talking about employment has caused most of the chaos.
According to statistic.gov.uk unemployment levels fell to 5.2% (UK) in the month of February. This figure is relatively stable comparing with 2001 (around 5 per cent) and 2007 (4.7%). This includes us Polish workers. Now you can link it with GDB and you could probably find strong positive correlation between both growths of Polish emigrants and GDB.
Of course there are many other pros and cons of Polish people coming to UK.
Great Britain is a multicultural country and has experience huge numbers of other immigrants coming into the country. Let’s see: 2001 some of the 7.9% of all ethnic groups starting from Indians, Pakistani and finishing with Chinese, sorry for the old data (CENSUS 2001, next one will much be better) at the end of this list.
We understand that media (BBC, The Sun or Daily Telegraph) is not the whole of the UK, hence opinions on this subject may vary.
We should stop this prejudice towards (immigrants) or however you want to call us and accept changes.
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The 3rd programme encouraged British people to "get on a plane" and go abroad to look for work. But this argument simply doesn't make any sense. Where are the British people supposed to go to work - Bulgaria?
If Bulgaria was brimming with employment opportunites, then why would the Bulgarians be coming here in the first place?
If there was another country better than Bulgaria and Britain, then surely the Bulgarians would go straight there first and not bother with Britain.
So this idea of people having to travel like rootless nomads across the whole world looking for temporary work is a deeply flawed agument. And what kind of a life to lead is that anyway?
The only thing that "the globalist nomad dream for the masses" is going to achieve is to destabilise such countries and alienate people in both Bulgaria and Britain etc.
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quote: Originally posted by jimboy007:
Hi, As far as I remember, the EU was 6 countries wanting free trade ! Now half the world either belongs, or wants to belong to Europe. No politician has asked me if I wanted Poland or the rest of them to join the EU! Undoubtedly we have many of our own politicians with jobs, directorships and squiddgy hands in all sorts of pies that make them money, but when will the Brits ever get the opportunity to say what they think???
With regards to the Poles, Bulgarians and Romanians etc, then if they want to come to this country to work, then fine, just let's operate a similar system to the USA where they get a green card, emergency medical attention only, no priority for living 24 to a house, no translators, and more fundementally, no family allowances either here or to be sent back home unless they have worked and paid taxes for at least 5 years.
If I went to Poland and asked for a council house, I would not be understood, I would not get a translator, I would not get benefits and I would have to sleep on the street.
Why are we so damned stupid? purely because of people like Teflon Tony, God Gordon and every stupid MP who doesn't have to live near them, compete for housing, benefits, work and most importantly equality for UK Citizens amongst them.
No wonder Brits are leaving in drones, but I bet they can't take their family allowances with them !!!!
well said. being blind and a descendant of a long standing british family that has survived centuries i cant even get the details of the benefits i am entitled to in an accessible format without it going to a translator and being put on disk taking about 10 days. but if i needed them in polish or urdu etc these are available off the shelf. i agree that people coming here should have to wait to get benefits better still have a job b4 they can enter the country. |
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I'm also inclined to believe that much of the economic benefit that comes with hard-working migrants is never felt by anyone except people in the financial positions of the upper-middle class and above. Take for example, the service industry. The food in the restaurant I went to this weekend has gone up not down since they started employing what I suspect are significantly cheaper and more efficient Eastern European workers. If fact, I haven't seen the price of anything drop recently, nor are my pockets overflowing with the money the company I work for has saved by employing cheap immigrant labour. Migrants are great news if your a 45 year old Senior Director with 12 run-down buy-to-lets you bought for 50k a pop a few years ago, or you have shares in Tesco, or you run a chain of restaurants. But that just isn't most people. These are just a privileged minority who are becoming even more wealthy, which may explain the increasing wealth gap in this country.
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Im writing from Ireland, which also has about a 10% non-national population Dispaches, tonight, made for very informative viewing. The English working class were being told by the presenter not to worry about the millions of foreign workers coming in taking their jobs and lowering their conditions, because they could go abroad as well if they wanted a decent job. Viewers were presented with the spectacle of this vast nomadic workforce traveling all over Europe, working cheap, living four to a room or, as was shown, sleeping in tea huts on building sites, with no job security, no pensions and many with no social security at all. Nobody was allowed, on this program, to say, just a minute, this is not "just the way things are" but its the way the wealthy Landlord elite want them to be. It seems the English working class are so subjugated and so dejected that they simply cant defend themselves any more. Of course, the Irish working class are not far behind. Its like the Highland clearances all over again - but instead of Scottish people being cleared out of Scotland to make way for sheep, this program showed us the English working class being cleared out of England to make way for cheap, non unionised, foreign labour, willing to rent houses and flats at rack rents because they live two and three families to a flat. I dont suggest the working class should be hostile to immigrants or blame them. I suggest that they crush the wealthy elite that are trying to push them out of their own homes and abusing immigrants as a weapon against them.
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quote: Originally posted by Dante A:
The program presented by Jon Snow opened withan account of a Somali woman, who cmae here as a asylum seeker and then had five children, by different fathers - none of whom are around now and who gets £32,000 per annum in benefits - asn thinks she should get more.
That is more than I get to keep from my £55,000 salary.
Why does her family get more than mine when she has contributed zero to our economy?
 She was moaning that she wasn't getting enough as well!. |
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How much net contribution is made by the Polish family with 2 children who is waiting for the child benefit? The tax they pay they will probably more than get back in tax credit, housing credit, child benefit etc. I am sure it costs more to keep the kids in school for a week than is paid in tax by them in a year. Thats discounting any nhs treatment they may get.
If they are nearly all transient why are the government so hell bent on building millions more houses - who are they for when the indiginous population is shrinking?
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quote: Originally posted by Dante A:
The program presented by Jon Snow opened withan account of a Somali woman, who cmae here as a asylum seeker and then had five children, by different fathers - none of whom are around now and who gets £32,000 per annum in benefits - asn thinks she should get more.
That is more than I get to keep from my £55,000 salary.
Why does her family get more than mine when she has contributed zero to our economy?
@Dante A - I know how you feel, I had a similar reaction. But, hang on a minute, that woman is not resposible for the benefit system in this country, is she?, No, you and I and the government we elect are responsible for the creation of a benefit system that many UK people have been ripping off for years, let alone other peeps! |
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The conclusion of the programme that British people should understand the new temporary nature of immigration ignores the new reality of the world. It is true that migration is an inevitable consequence of Globalisation, but what the programme does not recognise is that Globalisation itself is doomed, because it (& the migration it encourages) is not sustainable. As we speak the oil, gas and other commodities are running out and Government's obsession with Growth is leading to the inevitable economic crash. We need to be building a simpler more sustainable society that does not encourage migration, but encourages communities to be self supporting and to consume less, not more. We should oppose migration not for reasons of rascist bigotry, but to build a more sustainable world where people look to develop their local economies and societies are not ripped apart by the greed of the global economy.
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quote: Originally posted by israelstar:
Hi Samir,
I believe that this immigration dispatches has been a great sucess. Personally I believe some people make the comments they do because they are uneducated in the sense when it comes immigration. A lot of people fail to realise that the uk are apart of the European union along with 26 other member states. There are many articles within the E.u treaty which gives rights to the 27 members states of the E.u. To move,live, work and recieve the same social benefits in their host country. I feel some people feel insecure within themselves and that is my some people make ignorant comments about immigrants. I also feel immigrants maybe our foundation because a lot people take for granted the domestic jobs that some of them do i.e bin men and street cleaners. It does not matter about your race, it all depends on the individual person.
Good points, well made |
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quote: Originally posted by anecdotal evidence:
In concluding Rageh suggested that we will in the future all become economic migrants travelling around looking for work. This outlook is deeply floored in that it does not take into consideration the role of women in raising families. Once you have children it is not possible to move around the globe at a whim. In fact in this entire programme women were very poorly represented and in tonights edition English working women were left out completely.
If you are young, single, male this globetrotting lifestyle is certainly feasible, but for older people,the disabled or those with families it is a different ball game.
Excellent point!  |
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The immigration Powell was talking about was based on clash of culture - I don't see how the fact that the British working class is now facing increasing pressure to survive (due to being priced out of the market) will prove a solution in any way. Quite the reverse.
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Hi!
My name is Gosia, I'm Polish. I came to england 3 years ago, not to earn money, only to start new life. At that time my situaton was very diffucult not only "in fanacial way" but also my family situation was quite upseting for me. I finish university in Poland and for long time i couldn't find a job at all. I decided to came to England to stady English just to improve my english, so i could find better job in Poland.
I totally felt in love in this country, and decided to stay here for longer than i planned at the beginning, i was stadying and working at the same time, i was paying for my studies.
During my stay in England I met my husband, he in English so we settled in here.
What i was trying to say is noy every polish people is only traying to "suck" all jobs and money. I'm not a british citizen but I consider myself as part of this country. I work here, live here pay all taxes pay all my bills, I don't claim any benefits. I just want start my life in here and be treated as equal, but now I fell some kind of stigmata that i'm from easten Europe. Even In my work place I'm treated with reserve. I don't think thats ok.
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quote: Originally posted by magic_uk-pl: quote: Originally posted by jimboy007:
Hi, As far as I remember, the EU was 6 countries wanting free trade ! Now half the world either belongs, or wants to belong to Europe. No politician has asked me if I wanted Poland or the rest of them to join the EU! Undoubtedly we have many of our own politicians with jobs, directorships and squiddgy hands in all sorts of pies that make them money, but when will the Brits ever get the opportunity to say what they think???
With regards to the Poles, Bulgarians and Romanians etc, then if they want to come to this country to work, then fine, just let's operate a similar system to the USA where they get a green card, emergency medical attention only, no priority for living 24 to a house, no translators, and more fundementally, no family allowances either here or to be sent back home unless they have worked and paid taxes for at least 5 years.
If I went to Poland and asked for a council house, I would not be understood, I would not get a translator, I would not get benefits and I would have to sleep on the street.
Why are we so damned stupid? purely because of people like Teflon Tony, God Gordon and every stupid MP who doesn't have to live near them, compete for housing, benefits, work and most importantly equality for UK Citizens amongst them.
No wonder Brits are leaving in drones, but I bet they can't take their family allowances with them !!!!
You would be understood, you would get benefits and you would not sleep on the street. I gurantee this without doubt... And that's the whole idea of EU...
I don't know where you get your information from, but you are deffinately wrong! Having purchased property in Spain, (part of the EU before Poland), I found difficulties with language, no translators, no social (council houses) no speaky spanish no workie, and deffinately no benefits or family allowances. You people seem to live in a world of your own and must live in a parallel universe! Get back to the concept of my piece and answer correctly. |
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Because of the numbers that come here and the reason why they come here. Its hard to respect legions of one nationality that are obviously so concerned with self gain. Take as much from the uk and then go home, the vikings used to do that to us. People have no problem with small amounts of people, the odd thai person here are the few peruvians there. But when we are under this tide of people looking for the land of milk and honey its going to upset the indiginus folk.
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I am wondering, are Polish fighter pilots who saved your bacon just few decades back.... what about the many commonwealth soldiers who bled and died for the British cause..... What about the wealth you reaped from africa and elsewhere to maintain the comfort and luxury of life you enjoy today.... Britain is ours as much as it is yours... it is also our wealth, our sweat and blood that built this country!
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The latest programme concluded that the recent wave of immigrants were "only visiting", but actually your own poll said 28 per cent thought they would probably stay. Twenty-eight per cent of the net million in the last few years is, of course, 280,000 - a city the size of Bristol. Add on their dependants whom they would want to bring over and you can multiply that by three.
Actually, the Poles are good workers and from our own ethnicity. I do feel that ethnicity goes to the heart of the problem: we human tribes like to stick together, which is why there are so many ethnic ghettos in this country.
We should not be afraid to say that we would like to preserve the traditional, cultural, ethnic and religious profile of the country, without being made to feel guilty about it.
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quote: Originally posted by Kufah:
Rageh concluded that the effect of immigration, has not impacted on Britain the way in which Enoch Powell visualised.
But he is quite wrong. Indigenous British folk are now victims of political correctness. And every thing we say or do is scrutinised by one dept. or another. Yet we have to stand by and watch people parade around the streets of our capital city, carrying placards which call for our beheading, or our deaths. And nothing is done to stop this. Political corectness is extremely one sided, built against the very people, to which this land is their BIRTHRIGHT. Our fathers fought and died for our freedom, and this land. But now it is being given away wholesale, to foreigners who have no interest in staying here, or improving Britain.
That is one side of it.
The other side is that traditional communities are being broken up by people coming and going, and British people feel that they are being forced to leave our shores, to better themselves abroad, because they are being undercut by foreign workers.
So the Brits who leave, feel like they have no roots in Britain no more. We all need to feel rooted to something familliar. Foreign workers still have their roots in other countries. As many have said, they are only here to work, their roots lie in their homeland.
But British people feel that their homeland is being eroded, and that we no longer matter anymore. We are just cogs in a global machine. But at no time have we been asked if we wanted these changes, or if we wanted to be part of a "new world order". It is dispicable that the very people who built this country up, should be treated in this way, by money hungry business owners, and Vile politicians.
I for one am extremely angry. Britain is my HOME, and my BIRTHRIGHT, not a commodity for some self serving politicians to float on the stock market.
I would be interested to know how many other indigenous Britons felt like this.
Lots!!!! |
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Mr Omaar skirted the issue that bothers most British folk. They see their public services being squeezed by immigrants. He asked the head teacher if it had an effect. "Oh yes very definately it does" she said, but Mr Omaar then proceeded on his way ignoring this crucial point.
Trevor Philips and Mr Omaar both seemed to think that the immigrants will not want to settle in the UK and therefore we shouldnt be concerned. If one checks the history books, one will see immigrants arriving in numbers from the Carribean in the fifties and sixties with the same idea. Make some money and then go back. Except that's not what happened is it?
This programme promised much. A real debate, perhaps addressing the real concerns that so many of the indiginous population have. Alas, perhaps unsuprisingly, it failed to address any of these concerns. Instead attempted to paint a picture that no-one recognised, and the British people's concerns go unheard yet again. Embarrassing though it seems to be for some, Enoch Powell was spot on.
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C4 Community Manager
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Hi everyone,
Samir and Ed will be finishing soon, if you have any last questions for them get them in now!
C4 Admin
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