quote:

Originally posted by C4 Admin:
Hi everyone,

Samir and Ed will be finishing soon, if you have any last questions for them get them in now!


C4 Admin

One last tion - was this program commissioned by the far-right like the BNP?

What preplexes me in all these discussions is the reluctance to talk about the fundamental issue - which is the innate desire of all people to form a community bond with others of similar culture & history.

The government continually frames the debate in terms of the so-called and oft-asserted "economic benefit" that large scale immigration brings to Britain.

This ignores 3 important points ...
1) the ecenomic benefit from often unskilled immigration is often very dubious,
2) the contribution by distinct immigrant communities is very much dependent on the community itself. For example, Islamic immigration to this country these days is mainly by either asylum seeking (mostly bogus, a minority legitimate) or family re-unification, and these communities are amongst the most economically unproductive and the most reluctant to assimilate. They are a huge negative on Britain. Likewise Afican immigration benefits the Africans themselves but damages Britain (Somalis included, with apologies to Rageh himself)
3) The cost to this country in terms of the weakening of the culture and of community ties (as admitted even by Trevor Philips) far outweighs any alleged economic benefit.

Large scale non-European immigration is causing us to sleepwalk to a future where our children will not feel proud to be British, and where the children of non-European immigrants feel disconnected to this country, and crave the simple certainties and inferior culture of the regions from which they come.

This way lies further strife, as the events of 7/7 so graphically demonstrated. France is already headed for disaster .. Britain should take heed.

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Originally posted by Ed B.:

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Originally posted by ScottybNUFC:
Hi, I'm new to discussion, yes it was a good doc, but i didn't like the conclusion, i felt the presentor was siding with the fact that we have to embrace the situation rather than reject it like we don't have a choice. In other words out the window go's family and family values, staying with your home etc. Think how disruptive peoples with family having to live abroad or move abroad will become for good family life?

I think it would be disruptive ..... but migration has a long history ...... and our point is that disruption is increasingly the ecnomic name of the game...from Get on Your Bike to Get on Your Plane.....

I too felt the fatalistic conclusion 'you'll have to get on your EasyJet and join the global rat race.' was the main thrust of the programme.

How do you reconcile recent development in thinking - that increasing income doesn't give a corresponding increase in happiness (above say 15k/yr). And also the observation that immigrants have higher rates of mental health problems (depression etc..). You are condemming us to this fate too.

Everyone just runs faster to stand still.

And who benefits from this though? It is only the corporations who win by keeping wages low by employing illegal workers.

Why do you peddle this pro-rightwing tosh.

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Originally posted by steve powell:
i live in herefordshire, school leaver's who do not go on to further education etc are unable to find unskilled job's as they are taken up by migrant workers, is this not an inbalance and how do they get job's locally ?

So get off your arse and do it

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Originally posted by jimboy007:

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Originally posted by magic_uk-pl:

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Originally posted by jimboy007:
Hi, As far as I remember, the EU was 6 countries wanting free trade ! Now half the world either belongs, or wants to belong to Europe. No politician has asked me if I wanted Poland or the rest of them to join the EU! Undoubtedly we have many of our own politicians with jobs, directorships and squiddgy hands in all sorts of pies that make them money, but when will the Brits ever get the opportunity to say what they think???

With regards to the Poles, Bulgarians and Romanians etc, then if they want to come to this country to work, then fine, just let's operate a similar system to the USA where they get a green card, emergency medical attention only, no priority for living 24 to a house, no translators, and more fundementally, no family allowances either here or to be sent back home unless they have worked and paid taxes for at least 5 years.

If I went to Poland and asked for a council house, I would not be understood, I would not get a translator, I would not get benefits and I would have to sleep on the street.

Why are we so damned stupid? purely because of people like Teflon Tony, God Gordon and every stupid MP who doesn't have to live near them, compete for housing, benefits, work and most importantly equality for UK Citizens amongst them.

No wonder Brits are leaving in drones, but I bet they can't take their family allowances with them !!!!

You would be understood, you would get benefits and you would not sleep on the street. I gurantee this without doubt... And that's the whole idea of EU...

I don't know where you get your information from, but you are deffinately wrong! Having purchased property in Spain, (part of the EU before Poland), I found difficulties with language, no translators, no social (council houses) no speaky spanish no workie, and deffinately no benefits or family allowances. You people seem to live in a world of your own and must live in a parallel universe! Get back to the concept of my piece and answer correctly.

Guess where I got the info from?... I'm polish...100% no mixed blood for your info 90% of "Poland"" speaks english

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Originally posted by RichmondGreen:
The conclusion of the programme that British people should understand the new temporary nature of immigration ignores the new reality of the world. It is true that migration is an inevitable consequence of Globalisation, but what the programme does not recognise is that Globalisation itself is doomed, because it (& the migration it encourages) is not sustainable. As we speak the oil, gas and other commodities are running out and Government's obsession with Growth is leading to the inevitable economic crash. We need to be building a simpler more sustainable society that does not encourage migration, but encourages communities to be self supporting and to consume less, not more. We should oppose migration not for reasons of rascist bigotry, but to build a more sustainable world where people look to develop their local economies and societies are not ripped apart by the greed of the global economy.

And what a depressing conclusion it was, where countries are to become no more than dormitory countries for a migrant workforce, great for the CBI, lousy for everybody else.

OK how about following up these programmes with more on the same subject? Not every 40 years.

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Originally posted by Cerddaf:

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Originally posted by Ed B.:
[Question
Given the separate communities, how do you see them in the future:
- permanent feature.
- withering away over the next 100 years
- destroyed by pogroms

The use of the word "pogrom" always gives me chills ...... so I hope not. I would prefer to think that an open - rather than highly charged - discussion of immigration would alleviate potential problems over time.

I hesitated between pogrom and entgültige Entlösung / Final Solution, which I found even more dreadful. But you are right. A free, honest and open discussion is the only way to avoid it. Your programme was a good start, as against Enoch's speach which closed down the discussion for decades.[/QUOTE]

Thank you - out point in a nutshell.

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Originally posted by MIDGEBW:
Mr Omaar skirted the issue that bothers most British folk. They see their public services being squeezed by immigrants. He asked the head teacher if it had an effect. "Oh yes very definately it does" she said, but Mr Omaar then proceeded on his way ignoring this crucial point.
Trevor Philips and Mr Omaar both seemed to think that the immigrants will not want to settle in the UK and therefore we shouldnt be concerned. If one checks the history books, one will see immigrants arriving in numbers from the Carribean in the fifties and sixties with the same idea. Make some money and then go back. Except that's not what happened is it?
This programme promised much. A real debate, perhaps addressing the real concerns that so many of the indiginous population have. Alas, perhaps unsuprisingly, it failed to address any of these concerns. Instead attempted to paint a picture that no-one recognised, and the British people's concerns go unheard yet again. Embarrassing though it seems to be for some, Enoch Powell was spot on.

Very good point. If you have 10% or your population constantly consisting of cheap foreign workers who are not interested in staying and fighting for better conditions, its actually far worse then having people who want to make a real life for themselves in your country.

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Originally posted by Samir S:

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Originally posted by mojo101:

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Originally posted by Ed B.:
I disagree. Our point by the end of the series was that Enoch Powell turned out to be limited in his perspective and that, in turn, means that perhaps he should no longer be deployed as a cornerstone in the immigration debate. And should we go abroad? what about Australia? Or the US? Nothing new .... but perhaps we should have a longer and more critical historical perspective.

You may have been onto something when you say that not all of the immigrants are coming to stay and become citizens, although I think people know that. Travel has become a lot easier since the 1960s, when emigration used to mean you'd never see someone again.

In the programme I think some of the facts could have been interpreted differently. For example, you say that 82% (or whatever the number was) of current immigrants intend on going home. But that means 18% of a very big number intends to stay. If you just take the numbers intending to stay, how does this compare with the numbers in the past? And does it matter if people are intending on going home, if new ones are coming all the time? I highly doubt that the 10% of all people in Britain being foreign figure will go down.

Finally, as others have said, I found the programme's conclusion that low-skilled British workers should go and get a better job abroad (where exactly is this mythical place where they will they get paid more than here?), totally absurd. Was this conclusion based on any sort of research?

Well, the evidence is that more and more British workers are going abroad for jobs. I think the figure from the Home Office was 400,000 every year. So it is happening in some parts of the economy. The question is whether that kind of determination will spread to others

Youve got to look at cause and effect. Millions and Millions of people pour into Britain, the native population is then squeezed out. People arent moving out because they want to. Its because they are being forced to due to the uncontrolled mass immigration.

Living and working in Ireland and being an Irish citizen I watched all three programs and found them fascinating.We have similar issues in Ireland at present regarding an influx of immigrants and in particular coming from Eastern Europe.

The positions taken up by the immigrants here were similar to in Britain i.e.working in hotels,restaurants,cleaners,in construction etc.

It is also discussed here quite frequently regarding the numbers coming into Ireland although the Irish themselves are scattered across many countries in Europe including the UK and huge numbers settled in the USA.

I agree with the British workers that were interviewed in the program tonight that the future is very frightening indeed.

My belief is that through the Nice and Maastrict Treaty's this allowed the enlargement of Europe for the sole purpose of large firms and small businesses to fulfil labour shortages and to keep wages in general low.

I would not consider that there has been hostility towards the influx here as we ourselves moved to other countries since the 1800's but more suspicion as to what their purpose was here and how long they are staying.

I think in fairness Ireland needed a jolt but not this kind of a jolt I have to say that the majority of Polish people I have met are quite similar in ways to the Irish and are extremely disciplined,most are pleasant and speak very good English and a number of my work colleagues are Polish.Sometimes,they are even better to work with than my own Irish colleagues.

I tend to agree with the program makers that these migrants are only here for a short while to make money and send it home.Thanks for letting me air my comments C4.Excellent program

quote:

Originally posted by Cael:
Im writing from Ireland, which also has about a 10% non-national population Dispaches, tonight, made for very informative viewing. The English working class were being told by the presenter not to worry about the millions of foreign workers coming in taking their jobs and lowering their conditions, because they could go abroad as well if they wanted a decent job. Viewers were presented with the spectacle of this vast nomadic workforce traveling all over Europe, working cheap, living four to a room or, as was shown, sleeping in tea huts on building sites, with no job security, no pensions and many with no social security at all. Nobody was allowed, on this program, to say, just a minute, this is not "just the way things are" but its the way the wealthy Landlord elite want them to be. It seems the English working class are so subjugated and so dejected that they simply cant defend themselves any more. Of course, the Irish working class are not far behind. Its like the Highland clearances all over again - but instead of Scottish people being cleared out of Scotland to make way for sheep, this program showed us the English working class being cleared out of England to make way for cheap, non unionised, foreign labour, willing to rent houses and flats at rack rents because they live two and three families to a flat. I dont suggest the working class should be hostile to immigrants or blame them. I suggest that they crush the wealthy elite that are trying to push them out of their own homes and abusing immigrants as a weapon against them.

Spot on

This economic timebomb begining amongst the British working class will spill over to threaten a peaceful 'multi-cultural' society if not dealt with very quickly. Thus the pyre is fractured Britain of cultures living seperately - the petrol is the devaluation of British labour by economic migration.

It is not ignorance, it is concern. So you are saying we have to abide by the fourth reichs treaty - sorry i mean the EU. The treaty is the rewritten constitution that was rejected. What the hell is going on with the EU. It seems like someone with a plan, a rather angry austrian painter 70 years ago probably wished he'd tried it like this.

quote:

Originally posted by C4 Admin:
Hi everyone,

Samir and Ed will be finishing soon, if you have any last questions for them get them in now!


C4 Admin

Do you have any plans for a docu about the numbers of British people leaving our sunny shores- due to the competition for jobs?.

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Originally posted by nyunyu:
I felt it more than like turn the British people against the Polish poeple. And I can see in this forum that is quite successful.UK is part of the EU. There are people from UK who work in the other EU country.
Just think about USA.How is it looks like if people are going to live from Utah (where is not good the economical position) to California. And in California they do the same telly programm.
Seconed think. Soldiers from Poland was alliance of the British army in the II WW. But Britania forget them after Yalta.And what do you think about it? Poland never did a big problem of it. But this is the result, that they are here now.
And you can have a look on the statistic, how many people from the EU work in the care homes to look after the british very ill erderly people.

I am not against anyone coming over here and wanting to make a better life for themselves and I know that you are very good workers. In fact most English people find they are better off not working, especially with children. they get more on the dole. I have also noticed that my post has been ignored by the makers, asking why an authentic white English person could not have presented the programme..I am sure they would have got a more honest answer..there is still an amount of prejudice in this country and I do not believe I saw a true picture

ps...I know ALL my neighbours by the way!

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Originally posted by Boja:
More ammunition for BNP - courtsy of C4!

Now BNP doesn't need a party election broadcast - c4 has done a fantastic job for them.

What were you thinking?

I wouldn't worry - the BNP get, what, 1% of the vote? Based on those figures it would seem migration is not the issue the BNP or this programme want it to be. This programme continued the myth that 'ordinary' white Brits are being silenced by the PC brigade. I think it's the other way around. The anti-immigration lot have their own political party, tabloid newspapers, etc. All we ever hear about are the problems with migrants! As I said earlier, where are the stories about ordinary people happy to live in a multicultural society?

I do for one. so do i

Excellent point!

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Originally posted by Boja:
I am wondering, are Polish fighter pilots who saved your bacon just few decades back.... what about the many commonwealth soldiers who bled and died for the British cause..... What about the wealth you reaped from africa and elsewhere to maintain the comfort and luxury of life you enjoy today.... Britain is ours as much as it is yours... it is also our wealth, our sweat and blood that built this country!

OK, you chest banging lot... My family come from the same stock... when things got tough economically they hitched sticks and left, seeking their fortunes elsewhere. To try to claim the victim after how many centuries of colonialism is, rofl, yes, lol, a bit of a joke really. the seed of the Empire spread around the globe like so many grains of dust... and you have the nerve to moan that a few highly skilled workers have come here to help keep the costs of your new en suite or kitchen down. As for social services, if this is to be a civilised country it must offer equal access to all who contribute to the system. and, by the way, it does not. So, you want to talk about birth right, how about get lazy kids off their back sides and into a training program so they can compete and maybe move to Warsaw, if necessary, to get a job and begin contributing to this community. You really want to get rid of all those hard working taxpayers? Who would stump the bill for all the British scroungers?

Mr Powel's speech has exposed racist Britain some 4 decades back and this C4 serious proved nothing has changed over those long years - we are at the apex of intolerance!

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Originally posted by Boja:
I am wondering, are Polish fighter pilots who saved your bacon just few decades back.... what about the many commonwealth soldiers who bled and died for the British cause..... What about the wealth you reaped from africa and elsewhere to maintain the comfort and luxury of life you enjoy today.... Britain is ours as much as it is yours... it is also our wealth, our sweat and blood that built this country!

Boja, get a life, the second world war was a long time ago, and yes, we did support the polish pilots etc, but a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then. We are talking about tens of thousands of economic migrants coming into this country, our own childrens education being stopped or put on hold because of the diverse languages being inflicted upon our local schools, not to mention the restraints put upon our social services by economic migrants and their families.
With regards to your apron strings pull on the war, how does it sound that I am an ill Gulf War 1 Veteran, British, who fought to kick out Sadam from Q8, but has been screwed by both Conservative and Labour Governments in order to provide funding for half the world to come to the UK and deprive our society of what our grandparents have fought for, decent wages for decent jobs, but now we have a black economy where Europen countries want to work for nothing, not only because they are used to it, but they know nothing better than to screw everyone else up.

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Originally posted by Gouryella:

quote:

Originally posted by C4 Admin:
Hi everyone,

Samir and Ed will be finishing soon, if you have any last questions for them get them in now!


I would like my question answered which I have asked twice now


C4 Admin

Do you have any plans for a docu about the numbers of British people leaving our sunny shores- due to the competition for jobs?.