Since the events of 9-11, there has been an unrelenting campaign launched to change Islam into something more palatable to Western society. The war on terrorism had begun, creating islamophobia wherever it could reach. Showering the public with corrupt media in order for the public to "hate" islam and with it the muslims. Claiming that muslims were terrorists, radicals, extremists. Even creating fear in the hearts of people who are ignorant of islam; enabling them to also harbour hate against islam.
Fair enough, what happened in the 9/11 attacks was truly horrific, and sad. Many innocent lives were lost, leaving behind bereaved loved ones. I feel for them. But what is happening now is no less than a 9/11 attack. I would even say far greater.
The wars all seem to be directed at majority muslim countries: Chechnya, Kashmir, Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia. Where thousands upon thousands of innocent lives have died at the hands of oppressive leaders. Where innocent women and children have been killed in huge masses. Where blown up limbs of muslim men and women look exactly like those pulled from the rubble of the Twin Towers.
While meanwhile tens of thousands of innocent Muslims continue to be tortured in far away lands like Guantanamo Bay, Bagram airbase in Afghanistan, Abu Ghraib, Diego Garcia and ghost prisons throughout the world.
In this country, you have the new anti-terror laws. You can arrest and detain a person for 14 days, just on suspicion. Imagine those muslim men who have beards or the muslim women who wear headscarf, imagine the looks they get when they get onto the train, or the bus, or just passing through the street. The people of Britain may be scared of terrorists, but i assure you the muslim men and women probably fear the accusations of being a terrorist more. Do muslims have to continue to live this way?
Hijabs or in English headscarves had been banned in france, causing the women of Islam to go without their dignity and modesty. Discrimination towards the muslims, shown worldwide, without a trace of remorse.
Surely no1 should be treated like this???
"People only see what they are prepared to see." — Ralph Waldo Emerson
The wars all seem to be directed at majority muslim countries: Chechnya, Kashmir, Palestine These aren't countries - these are provinces., Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia.
While meanwhile tens of thousands of innocent Muslims continue to be tortured in far away lands like Guantanamo Bay, Bagram airbase in Afghanistan, Abu Ghraib, Diego Garcia and ghost prisons throughout the world.
In this country, you have the new anti-terror laws. You can arrest and detain a person for 14 days, just on suspicion. Imagine those muslim men who have beards or the muslim women who wear headscarf, imagine the looks they get when they get onto the train, or the bus, or just passing through the street. The people of Britain may be scared of terrorists, but i assure you the muslim men and women probably fear the accusations of being a terrorist more. Do muslims have to continue to live this way?
Hijabs or in English headscarves had been banned in france, causing the women of Islam to go without their dignity and modesty. Discrimination towards the muslims, shown worldwide, without a trace of remorse.
Surely no1 should be treated like this???
Can you tell me how minorities are treated in Muslim countries?
Compare and contrast, when doing so please take on board Ralph Waldo Emerson advice who you have quoted above.
What's your view on discrimination toward gay people?
I am not discriminate towards gays, are they not people? Yes i may not agree with the concept of homosexuality, just as it declares in the Bible, and in the Quran, because personally i believe that it does not co-exist with nature. By that i mean, when you look at the animal kingdom you do not see any mating of the same sex species.
But that is my personal view.
But when it comes to people who are gay, i have no problems with them, becos they are who they are. You should accept people for what they are. I have worked with many gay people, and get on fine with them. You cant expect someone to change because of your beliefs. Only their beliefs can change of their own will.
Hope it made sense :S
You may not personally discriminate, but Islam does. I don't agree with the concept of Islam, when you look at the animal kingdom you do not see any Islam - so that makes Islam wrong?. Sorry to twist your words, because I believe you are trying to enter into debate. But your analogy of animals with humans and sexuality doesn't hold water.
What a disgusting thing to say - your naivety and ignorance astounds me!
I dont have exact numbers of how many people died in these countries, but are you trying to tell me that the number of deaths that occured in the devastating 9/11 tops the number of deaths through war in the countries, i stress countries, not provinces!!!! through the duration of 5 years???
I believe you are more naive than me.
And dont 4get that it was Bush who initiated war in the east. I guess his moto was a life for a life.
"People only see what they are prepared to see." — Ralph Waldo Emerson
Can you tell me how minorities are treated in Muslim countries?
I wouldnt have a clue seeing as though i dont actually live in a muslim country. But im guessing it wouldnt be that bad because they are still living there lol! They would no longer be a minority, because wouldnt they just up and leave if it were that bad? (4give me if u dont find the comment humurous.)
I mean if you know how minorities are treated in muslim countries, dont be shy in elaborating
"People only see what they are prepared to see." — Ralph Waldo Emerson
What a disgusting thing to say - your naivety and ignorance astounds me!
I dont have exact numbers of how many people died in these countries, but are you trying to tell me that the number of deaths that occured in the devastating 9/11 tops the number of deaths through war in the countries, i stress countries, not provinces!!!! through the duration of 5 years???
I believe you are more naive than me.
And dont 4get that it was Bush who initiated war in the east. I guess his moto was a life for a life.
Utter nonsense - wars are devastating wherever they happen, of course they are, but you will find that it was muslim extremism that murdered thousands of innocents in the twin towers (incluing muslims) just as it is muslims who are doin most of the murdering now.
You also have a short memory span - there has been war raging in the middle east for decades in one territory or another - don't kid yourself that all was quiet on the eastern front before bush came to power!!!!!
Fair enough you dont want to listen to the views of someone as "naive" as myself, but i thought this i was a forum where ordinary people could actually have civilised debates allowing to share their own personal views with others? Guess i was wrong
But i though you may be interested in what the world is saying:
Heres some selected words following a recent press conference regarding President Bush:
The former Secretary of State, Mr. Powell, had written, simply and candidly and without anger, that "the world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism."
Some will think that our actions at Abu Ghraib, or in Guantanamo, or in secret prisons in Eastern Europe, are all too comparable to the actions of the extremists.
Except, it seems, this President. With increasing rage, he and his administration have begun to tell us, we are not permitted to disagree with them, that we cannot be right, that Colin Powell cannot be right.
“It's unacceptable to think," he said.
Just shows that some people do think that this "war on terror" is a lil far fetched.
"but you will find that it was muslim extremism that murdered thousands of innocents in the twin towers (incluing muslims) just as it is muslims who are doin most of the murdering now."
So when US soldiers marched into Afghanistan to wipe out the taliban, i guess it was the muslims who created the Nothern Alliance, who went around raping women, and killing innocents. It wasnt the US that created this groups within Afghanistan right? i mean the northern alliance actually didnt exist before the US got there. So it wasnt British, and US soldiers who raped girls as young as 14 and then killed their families to silence them, and then burn the body of the raped victim? It was the muslims. It wasnt the US who went into Iraq, to get rid of Saddam Hussein, and then decided to stay in order to create "law and order", where instead more riots occured than before, causing more rifts between the communities.
"You also have a short memory span - there has been war raging in the middle east for decades in one territory or another - don't kid yourself that all was quiet on the eastern front before bush came to power!!!!!"
And sadly no, i do not have a short memory span, i am aware of the crisis occuring before President Bush decided to interfere. But i am sure it wasnt as bad as it is now. Bush has not created "law and order" in the east. He has created chaos and destruction, in the name of "war against terror", and has justified it also.
"People only see what they are prepared to see." — Ralph Waldo Emerson
Actually you are quite wrong. There have been many many documented cases of same sex relationships in the animal kingdom - swans, monkeys, squirrels to name a few. I suggest you check the facts first
Fair enough, but im entitled to a personal opinion though arent i. You are correct no doubt. But i personally am not discriminate towards them. You had askd ME the question. You didnt ask if islam was....
"People only see what they are prepared to see." — Ralph Waldo Emerson
Okay... it can't be that bad in the West then because you are still living here.
Okay... it can't be that bad in the West then because you are still living here.
Yes you are correct, but that is why there is so much protest concerning many aspects, because the problem of discrimination can elevate if not dealt with before it gets out of hand. Surely, prevention is better than finding the cure?
"People only see what they are prepared to see." — Ralph Waldo Emerson
Can you tell me how minorities are treated in Muslim countries?
I wouldnt have a clue seeing as though i dont actually live in a muslim country. But im guessing it wouldnt be that bad because they are still living there lol! They would no longer be a minority, because wouldnt they just up and leave if it were that bad? (4give me if u dont find the comment humurous.)
I mean if you know how minorities are treated in muslim countries, dont be shy in elaborating
Okay... it can't be that bad in the West then because you are still living here.
Okay... it can't be that bad in the West then because you are still living here.
Yes you are correct, but that is why there is so much protest concerning many aspects, because the problem of discrimination can elevate if not dealt with before it gets out of hand. Surely, prevention is better than finding the cure?
Whos being discriminated against? In France (secular country) you mentioned Muslim women and losing their dignity etc.. however the law banned religious symbols in schools, ALL religions!!!. Turkey have done this, do you have an issue with this muslim country doing this or just Western countries?
Don't forget though what Ralph Waldo Emerson once said:
Actually you are quite wrong. There have been many many documented cases of same sex relationships in the animal kingdom - swans, monkeys, squirrels to name a few. I suggest you check the facts first
Fair enough, but im entitled to a personal opinion though arent i. You are correct no doubt. But i personally am not discriminate towards them. You had askd ME the question. You didnt ask if islam was....
I fully accept that you don't have a personal problem with it - was merely taking exception to the statement you made around homosexuality being outlawed as it is not found in nature - which is untrue. Am not accusing you homophobia - just your post was giving off mixed signals and messages which can come across as excuse-making... something on the lines of "I have nothing against homosexuality, some of my best friends are homosexuals.... but..." )
Okay... it can't be that bad in the West then because you are still living here.
Okay... it can't be that bad in the West then because you are still living here.
Yes you are correct, but that is why there is so much protest concerning many aspects, because the problem of discrimination can elevate if not dealt with before it gets out of hand. Surely, prevention is better than finding the cure?
WOW - so we only have to deal with discrimination before it gets out of hand? Thanks for the information.
Originally posted by silmii: "Hanging in Iran for starters?"
Please elaborate
Hanging gay people in Iran for being gay. Is that elaboration enough? I would welcome refugees from Iran with open arms to get them away from this vile religion.
Whos being discriminated against? In France (secular country) you mentioned Muslim women and losing their dignity etc.. however the law banned religious symbols in schools, ALL religions!!!. Turkey have done this, do you have an issue with this muslim country doing this or just Western countries?
If you are suggesting that i have a problem with the West, then may i reassure you that is not the case. I am aware of Turkey doing so also, France was just an example. I dont want no1 to take offence, but surely wearing a cross is something more spiritual, rather than commanded by God (correct me if i am wrong), the yarmulke worn by the Jew is also not commanded by the Lord, but the Hijab (headscarf) is commanded by Allah swt (God).
That is why i feel as though it was more severe to have taken away the headscarf from the muslims. They had to compromise what had been ordained by God, which i find really sad.
Fair enough it is sad that all other people from other religions have also had to compromise, but it is not something that is ordained by God.
"People only see what they are prepared to see." — Ralph Waldo Emerson
Hanging gay people in Iran for being gay. Is that elaboration enough? I would welcome refugees from Iran with open arms to get them away from this vile religion.
fair enough, what you are saying is correct. And i agree that no1 has the right to take life away. That country is not under Shariah law, therefore their actions do not portray Islam. Rather it portray's what they THINK they know of Islam.
"People only see what they are prepared to see." — Ralph Waldo Emerson
WOW - so we only have to deal with discrimination before it gets out of hand? Thanks for the information.
The purpose of this thread was to have civilised debates. If i have offended anyone, i do ask for forgiveness. I would appreciate it if no sarcy remarks were made, and that only people who are genuinely interested in taking part in the debate post. Thankyou.
"People only see what they are prepared to see." — Ralph Waldo Emerson
Whos being discriminated against? In France (secular country) you mentioned Muslim women and losing their dignity etc.. however the law banned religious symbols in schools, ALL religions!!!. Turkey have done this, do you have an issue with this muslim country doing this or just Western countries?
If you are suggesting that i have a problem with the West, then may i reassure you that is not the case.
Hold on mate you have posted a thread do muslims deserve to be treated this way I asked you to compare this to how minorities are treated in Muslim countries and you think they are treated pretty well..
WOW - so we only have to deal with discrimination before it gets out of hand? Thanks for the information.
The purpose of this thread was to have civilised debates. If i have offended anyone, i do ask for forgiveness. I would appreciate it if no sarcy remarks were made, and that only people who are genuinely interested in taking part in the debate post. Thankyou.
Civilised debate is great. You don't agree with homosexuality but accept it happens. I don't agree with Islam but accept it happens. You intimated that it wasn't too bad living in a muslim country because 'they are still living there'. Yes maybe they are, but living in terror for their lives. Same goes for women who 'stray' from what is dictated for them.
'the problem of discrimination can elevate if not dealt with before it gets out of hand' - but only dealing with that discrimination if it suits your ideals?
And btw - including LOL in a serious debate may seem a bit 'sarcy' to some. But I glossed over that.
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