quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:
May I kindly ask you to quote the whole verse not just the sentence that you think you have found contradiction. Quote the whole verse please.

Never was it stated that the stars were beyond the heavens. If you read closely they referred to as being like lamps near the lowest heaven.

As for Surah 2:16 this is referring to what the Christians say, not what the Muslims believe.

Please actually pick up a Qur'an and find the contradictions instead of using an internet site as your reference. Funnily enough they don't provide you with the whole Ayah's.

You are telling me to pick up a Koran - I am on my third Hadith!

Have you actually read a Koran?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:

Which shows us that he did not carry out this crucifiction. Otherwise this concept would have been used 1000 years before history documents to have been used.

Are you now re-writing history to suit?

Let me get this right - they knew how to threaten to crucify but never would because it was not invented yet?

ROFL

Haha. No I'm saying he threatened to carry out a crucifixion but never did so.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:
May I kindly ask you to quote the whole verse not just the sentence that you think you have found contradiction. Quote the whole verse please.

Never was it stated that the stars were beyond the heavens. If you read closely they referred to as being like lamps near the lowest heaven.

As for Surah 2:16 this is referring to what the Christians say, not what the Muslims believe.

Please actually pick up a Qur'an and find the contradictions instead of using an internet site as your reference. Funnily enough they don't provide you with the whole Ayah's.

You are telling me to pick up a Koran - I am on my third Hadith!

Have you actually read a Koran?

Yes I have thanks. Do you need help reading yours? Why are you unable to quote the whole ayah's within which you find contradiction?

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:
May I kindly ask you to quote the whole verse not just the sentence that you think you have found contradiction. Quote the whole verse please.

Never was it stated that the stars were beyond the heavens. If you read closely they referred to as being like lamps near the lowest heaven.

As for Surah 2:16 this is referring to what the Christians say, not what the Muslims believe.

Please actually pick up a Qur'an and find the contradictions instead of using an internet site as your reference. Funnily enough they don't provide you with the whole Ayah's.

Yusuf Ali's translation is as follows -

He Who created the seven heavens, one above the other ...
And We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps ... (67:3,5)
And He completed them seven heavens in two days
and inspired in each heaven its command;
and We adorned the lower heaven with lamps,
and rendered it guarded... (41:12)

We have indeed adorned the lower heaven with the beauty of the stars. (37:6)

Do you not see how God has created the seven heavens
one above the other,
and made the moon a light in their midst,
and made the sun as a lamp? (71:15-16)

Are they ok for ya?

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:
Yes I have thanks. Do you need help reading yours? Why are you unable to quote the whole ayah's within which you find contradiction?

It is never going to be enough is it?

Let us face it - you so called 'word of god' is falling flat on its face!

I even give you your leading scholars arguments on link - do you read them? No!

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:

Haha. No I'm saying he threatened to carry out a crucifixion but never did so.

How did he know about a concept 1000 years before its invention?

Was he a time traveller?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:
May I kindly ask you to quote the whole verse not just the sentence that you think you have found contradiction. Quote the whole verse please.

Never was it stated that the stars were beyond the heavens. If you read closely they referred to as being like lamps near the lowest heaven.

As for Surah 2:16 this is referring to what the Christians say, not what the Muslims believe.

Please actually pick up a Qur'an and find the contradictions instead of using an internet site as your reference. Funnily enough they don't provide you with the whole Ayah's.

Yusuf Ali's translation is as follows -

He Who created the seven heavens, one above the other ...
And We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps ... (67:3,5)
And He completed them seven heavens in two days
and inspired in each heaven its command;
and We adorned the lower heaven with lamps,
and rendered it guarded... (41:12)

We have indeed adorned the lower heaven with the beauty of the stars. (37:6)

Do you not see how God has created the seven heavens
one above the other,
and made the moon a light in their midst,
and made the sun as a lamp? (71:15-16)

Are they ok for ya?

Much better. But I'm still failing to see where it says that the heavens are closer than the moon and stars? Are you looking at the line which says "and made the moon a light in their midst". Because this isn't saying the moon is in the heavens midst, it is saying the light which is being reflected from the moon is amongst their (the heavens) midst.

So wine - what about that?

O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).

(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).

Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).

So which is right? Or was Allah a bit worse for wear?

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:
Much better. But I'm still failing to see where it says that the heavens are closer than the moon and stars? Are you looking at the line which says "and made the moon a light in their midst". Because this isn't saying the moon is in the heavens midst, it is saying the light which is being reflected from the moon is amongst their (the heavens) midst.

LOL - so if I stand in a crowd I am not in their 'midst' I am mearly a reflection of someone who could be - ok got it!

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:
Much better. But I'm still failing to see where it says that the heavens are closer than the moon and stars? Are you looking at the line which says "and made the moon a light in their midst". Because this isn't saying the moon is in the heavens midst, it is saying the light which is being reflected from the moon is amongst their (the heavens) midst.

I can't figure out for the life of me why you are making all this up - LOL

And hey!
To think Allah says in Quran that, “I made Qur’an very clear, simple and easy and written in Arabic (44:58, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40) so that Muslims (Arabs of course) can understand very easily?” Please listen what Merciful Allah says in Qur’an: “ But We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? (54:22); and “We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand and learn wisdom (43:3)”. Allah emphatically declared that He made Quran very easy so that Muslims can understand very easily.

Well it beats the hell out of me Allah!

Does it say the moon is amongst their midst. Or does it say a light amongst their midst.

For your information I read the argument between the 2 shias. I put shias in the same boat as you. Non-believers.

And research further you will find that the wine in Jannah (paradise) is not wine that will intoxicate you therefore it is not the wine of this earth which is forbidden to us muslims. Wine is the word used so that we can grasp a hold of a slight understanding of the delights in Jannah as we will never no whilst on this earth.

If he makes somebody deaf, dumb and blind - (Not in the literal sense before you take me to court)

It is quite hard to understand!

Make it easy for yourself!

Where have all the postings gone? I only see postings from Yuze and Jezz. What's going on?

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:
If he makes somebody deaf, dumb and blind - (Not in the literal sense before you take me to court)

It is quite hard to understand!

Make it easy for yourself!

Well it is the first time I have been accused of not understanding ‘words’ in a syntax – LOL

You know if ‘you’ are so right why not re-write the Oxford dictionary just to suit ‘you’ – You know let us examine your verbatim:

Wine – not the same as in Jannah (paradise)?

But in the main it is agreed that it is – “An alcoholic beverage produced through the fermentation of grape juice. Other fruit and vegetable juices, such as dandelion and elderberry are also occasionally used in winemaking, an art the goes back at least 12,000 years.”

Crucifixion – “To put to death by nailing or binding the wrists or hands and feet to a cross; specifically refers to Christ’s death.”

Midst – “the location of something surrounded by other things; "in the midst of the crowd"”

So when we keep in mind that The Koran is the word of Allah ( a black rock incidentally) surely we must conclude that the verbatim and whole syntax of this book is:

A. Faulty?
B. Mistaken?
C. Erroneous?
D. Written down wrong?
E. Miss-translated?
F. A load of made up plagiarised bunkum?

quote:

Originally posted by balaclava9:
Where have all the postings gone? I only see postings from Yuze and Jezz. What's going on?

No it was just me and Yuze - discussing the errors of the Koran LOL

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

quote:

Originally posted by balaclava9:
Where have all the postings gone? I only see postings from Yuze and Jezz. What's going on?

No it was just me and Yuze - discussing the errors of the Koran LOL

We went the full 12 rounds last night didn't we LOL.

So pick up where we left off. Bismillah Ar Rahmanir Raheem.

Wine - As I stated, the wine on the earth isn't the same as in Jannah. Wine is prohibited on earth as it is an intoxicant. In Jannah the wine doesn't intoxicate. The Lord's Messenger has explained this. Wine has been used to desribe the colouring, taste and texture so that our finite minds can understand what type of things await us in the Hereafter. We can't have sex on earth.......until we get married. So the conditions of something which has been prohibited can be change under certain circumstances as we can see from this example.

Crucifixion - I can see where your coming from. However the fact that the sorcerers were not crucified, I don't see how this contradicts historical 'evidence'. Maybe Fir'awn thought up the method of crucifixion but never wrote it down, haha. The Sustainer knows best.

Midst - Yes your definition of midst is accurate. But it was never stated that the stars and the moon is further away from the earth than the heavens. Are you aware that space is the lowest heaven? Would this then sufficient evidence as to why the moon is in the midst of it?

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by balaclava9:
Where have all the postings gone? I only see postings from Yuze and Jezz. What's going on?

No it was just me and Yuze - discussing the errors of the Koran LOL

We went the full 12 rounds last night didn't we LOL.

So pick up where we left off. Bismillah Ar Rahmanir Raheem.

Wine - As I stated, the wine on the earth isn't the same as in Jannah. Wine is prohibited on earth as it is an intoxicant. In Jannah the wine doesn't intoxicate. The Lord's Messenger has explained this. Wine has been used to desribe the colouring, taste and texture so that our finite minds can understand what type of things await us in the Hereafter. We can't have sex on earth.......until we get married. So the conditions of something which has been prohibited can be change under certain circumstances as we can see from this example.

Crucifixion - I can see where your coming from. However the fact that the sorcerers were not crucified, I don't see how this contradicts historical 'evidence'. Maybe Fir'awn thought up the method of crucifixion but never wrote it down, haha. The Sustainer knows best.

Midst - Yes your definition of midst is accurate. But it was never stated that the stars and the moon is further away from the earth than the heavens. Are you aware that space is the lowest heaven? Would this then sufficient evidence as to why the moon is in the midst of it?[/QUOTE)

Dear Zuze.....you are greatly missed on the other threads...where are you?..have you run out of steam..or has your door been kicked in?

Any suspected contradictions I can straighten out folks?

Ok Yuze explain this???

(Now I know this is pretty boring stuff but it is a prime example of the complete dogs dinner this book is and how it is absolutely a man’s attempt to write a guide to tribal management and not the immutable words of a God to his people)

The Qur’an on Inheritance

4:11. God (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by God; and God is All-knowing, Al- wise.
4:12. In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third; after payment of legacies and debts; so that no loss is caused (to any one). Thus is it ordained by God; and God is All-knowing, Most Forbearing.
4:176. They ask thee for a legal decision. Say: God directs (thus) about those who leave no descendants or ascendants as heirs. If it is a man that dies, leaving a sister but no child, she shall have half the inheritance: If (such a deceased was) a woman, who left no child, Her brother takes her inheritance: If there are two sisters, they shall have two-thirds of the inheritance (between them): if there are brothers and sisters, (they share), the male having twice the share of the female. Thus doth God make clear to you (His law), lest ye err. And God hath knowledge of all things.

Let us suppose that a man dies and leaves behind three daughters, two parents and his wife. According to the verses stated above the three daughters together will receive 2/3 of the share, the parents will receive 1/3 of the share and the wife will receive 1/8 of the share. That adds up to 1 and 1/8th i.e. 1/8th more than exists. Bad maths Mohammed.
Another example: A man dies and leaves behind his mother, his wife and two sisters. The mother will receive 1/3 of the property, the wife will receive 1/4 of the property and the sisters will receive 2/3 of the property. Again that adds up to 1 and 1/8th i.e. 1/8th more than exists.


Of course this is a typical example of this ‘dogs dinner’ of a guide to 7C Tribal Management. The problem for Muslims is ‘it’s the immutable words of God. So how do they get around it? I can't dinf an explanation for how they get around the maths but it gets worse. . .

First off the Qur’an mentions nine such obligatory sharers. Problem is there are a further three relations who are entitled to a share so Muslim jurists have added a further three making a total of 12!!
Next problem, the Qur’an replaced an existing system and some Muslims want to retain the old system.
The Sunni’s take the view that the intention of the Quranic injunctions was not to completely replace the old customary agnatic system entirely but merely to modify it with the objective of improving the position of female relatives. The Sunni Islamic law of inheritance is therefore, an amalgamation of the Quranic law superimposed upon the old customary law. The Shia on the contrary took the view that since the old agnatic customary system had not been endorsed by the Quran it must be rejected and completely replaced by the new Quranic law.

Dear B9..I think you will have to wait a veeeeeeeeeeery long time.Or as was said previously..pop round to your local Mosque.This is decending into a FARCE.
I admire your tenacity...go get em tiger.

quote:

Originally posted by Yuze:
Any suspected contradictions I can straighten out folks?

YUZE,

Please come back. I need a rational Muslim to set Venus and Sally straight; they're calling me an extremist because I posted word for word copies of verses of the Qur'an!!!

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