why is it that anyone who states that they are afraid of the potential muslim threat to our way of life is immediately labelled 'narrowminded and bigotted' I am neither as my muslim friends will testify,however,I do belive in the old maxim ;when in Rome'British women travelling to muslim countries are expected to cover themselves appropriately as a mark of respect so is it so wrong to expect muslim women here not to wear the veil?
Originally posted by cactusman: why is it that anyone who states that they are afraid of the potential muslim threat to our way of life is immediately labelled 'narrowminded and bigotted' I am neither as my muslim friends will testify,however,I do belive in the old maxim ;when in Rome'British women travelling to muslim countries are expected to cover themselves appropriately as a mark of respect so is it so wrong to expect muslim women here not to wear the veil?
To be fair, british law does not ban the use of the veil so respecting british law doesn't mean that you mustn't wear a veil.
Originally posted by cactusman: why is it that anyone who states that they are afraid of the potential muslim threat to our way of life is immediately labelled 'narrowminded and bigotted' I am neither as my muslim friends will testify,however,I do belive in the old maxim ;when in Rome'British women travelling to muslim countries are expected to cover themselves appropriately as a mark of respect so is it so wrong to expect muslim women here not to wear the veil?
Have you ever seen british tourists on Egyptian and Turkish beaches? Cover up? Not in the slightest!
Originally posted by cactusman: why is it that anyone who states that they are afraid of the potential muslim threat to our way of life is immediately labelled 'narrowminded and bigotted' I am neither as my muslim friends will testify,however,I do belive in the old maxim ;when in Rome'British women travelling to muslim countries are expected to cover themselves appropriately as a mark of respect so is it so wrong to expect muslim women here not to wear the veil?
Dude... why are you so against people covering up???? I mean... what's it to you??? You don't like the laws of muslim countries wanting other women travelling to cover up... then don't visit those countries!!!! ... the laws here allow us to ocver up.. and thank god for that!!! Well.. wearing the veil is an act of religious behaviours... walking around half naked... quite frankly is not..!!!
I really dont understand why pepople are so offended by Muslim women covering them selves!!! you think if they didnt want to so many would??? what's so bad in it??! It is an act of modesty... ! Displaying one's body parts and attracting perverted attention of others isn't exactly an act to be proud of!
Originally posted by cactusman: I do belive in the old maxim ;when in Rome'British women travelling to muslim countries are expected to cover themselves appropriately as a mark of respect so is it so wrong to expect muslim women here not to wear the veil?
You raise a very interesting point, but I disagree with it unfortunately. The difference is that this country claims to offer religious freedom and freedom of expression. Thus, to disallow Muslim women from wearing the veil would be hypocritical in that it would be in contradiction of the values that this country claims to uphold.
On the other hand, the said Muslim countries have never claimed to offer the same freedoms that this country does. Thus, it is not hypocritical on their part as they do not contradict their own laws or values in asking women to dress modestly in their country.
Regards
The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:
"Shall I inform you of the best morals of this world and the hereafter?
They are to forgive he who oppresses you, to make a bond with he who severs from you, to be kind to he who insults you, and to give to he who deprives you."
Originally posted by Osman8491: You raise a very interesting point, but I disagree with it unfortunately. The difference is that this country claims to offer religious freedom and freedom of expression. Thus, to disallow Muslim women from wearing the veil would be hypocritical in that it would be in contradiction of the values that this country claims to uphold.
On the other hand, the said Muslim countries have never claimed to offer the same freedoms that this country does. Thus, it is not hypocritical on their part as they do not contradict their own laws or values in asking women to dress modestly in their country.
Regards
So it is ok for a muslim countrys to deny freedoms becasue they have never been on offer?
Do you belive it is right that we continue to offer freedoms
Originally posted by Tequila_nic: So it is ok for a muslim countrys to deny freedoms becasue they have never been on offer?
Do you belive it is right that we continue to offer freedoms
Nic
it is not ok for any country to deny freedoms, however there are many different cultural perspectives as to what freedom is and should be.
so what you may believe is an assault on freedom may be perceived as an essential component to their safety, security and well being.
and what you consider to be an essential freedom might be perceived by others as the determining factor that today has resolved into the many social problems we are engaged .
Originally posted by Osman8491: You raise a very interesting point, but I disagree with it unfortunately. The difference is that this country claims to offer religious freedom and freedom of expression. Thus, to disallow Muslim women from wearing the veil would be hypocritical in that it would be in contradiction of the values that this country claims to uphold.
On the other hand, the said Muslim countries have never claimed to offer the same freedoms that this country does. Thus, it is not hypocritical on their part as they do not contradict their own laws or values in asking women to dress modestly in their country.
Regards
So it is ok for a muslim countrys to deny freedoms becasue they have never been on offer?
Yes. It is ok for them to uphold their own values.
quote:
Originally posted by Tequila_nic: Do you belive it is right that we continue to offer freedoms
Since this is a secular country, I would like the freedom to practise my religion. Because this is a democratic country as well, I suppose the majority of people would like to keep the freedoms that are on offer as it is one of the core values of this country. Additionally, if freedom of expression is not allowed, it would impact all of society, not just Muslims.
Regards
The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:
"Shall I inform you of the best morals of this world and the hereafter?
They are to forgive he who oppresses you, to make a bond with he who severs from you, to be kind to he who insults you, and to give to he who deprives you."
Originally posted by Osman8491: You raise a very interesting point, but I disagree with it unfortunately. The difference is that this country claims to offer religious freedom and freedom of expression. Thus, to disallow Muslim women from wearing the veil would be hypocritical in that it would be in contradiction of the values that this country claims to uphold.
On the other hand, the said Muslim countries have never claimed to offer the same freedoms that this country does. Thus, it is not hypocritical on their part as they do not contradict their own laws or values in asking women to dress modestly in their country.
Regards
So it is ok for a muslim countrys to deny freedoms becasue they have never been on offer?
Yes. It is ok for them to uphold their own values.
quote:
Originally posted by Tequila_nic: Do you belive it is right that we continue to offer freedoms
Since this is a secular country, I would like the freedom to practise my religion. Because this is a democratic country as well, I suppose the majority of people would like to keep the freedoms that are on offer as it is one of the core values of this country. Additionally, if freedom of expression is not allowed, it would impact all of society, not just Muslims.
Regards
So you don’t believe the freedoms you enjoy should be applicable to everyone?
Isn’t that a little hypocritical? (Can you not see this is one reason why people are getting annoyed? We give muslims who come to the UK freedoms but people going to muslims countries cannot expect to be given their freedoms and for you this is OK (I have asked this question to loads of mulsims and I always get the same answer). As a Satanist, you see, the solution for me is simple as I believe we should treat others as they treat us (not the Christian treat others as you would like to be treated) I’m glad you support freedom of speech though.
One final question Do you believe that all faiths should be treated equally? Nic
Originally posted by Osman8491: Since this is a secular country, I would like the freedom to practise my religion. Because this is a democratic country as well, I suppose the majority of people would like to keep the freedoms that are on offer as it is one of the core values of this country. Additionally, if freedom of expression is not allowed, it would impact all of society, not just Muslims.
Regards
But this country is a Christian country - Christian Laws - Christian Monarch - it is Christian!
Originally posted by Osman8491: Since this is a secular country, I would like the freedom to practise my religion. Because this is a democratic country as well, I suppose the majority of people would like to keep the freedoms that are on offer as it is one of the core values of this country. Additionally, if freedom of expression is not allowed, it would impact all of society, not just Muslims.
Regards
But this country is a Christian country - Christian Laws - Christian Monarch - it is Christian!
if it is christian then it complies with everything that muslims believe in .
Originally posted by Tequila_nic: So you don’t believe the freedoms you enjoy should be applicable to everyone?
Isn’t that a little hypocritical? (Can you not see this is one reason why people are getting annoyed? We give muslims who come to the UK freedoms but people going to muslims countries cannot expect to be given their freedoms and for you this is OK (I have asked this question to loads of mulsims and I always get the same answer). As a Satanist, you see, the solution for me is simple as I believe we should treat others as they treat us (not the Christian treat others as you would like to be treated) I’m glad you support freedom of speech though.
One final question Do you believe that all faiths should be treated equally? Nic
curiously the biggest gripe here is that people dont want to accept our values and the only way it appears we can 'offer' them to other countries is by getting involved in illegal wars and having shady characters voted in through elections that have our oversight.
freedoms are not always freedoms surely you must understand that, and what you perceive as freedoms here are not necessarily freedoms elsewhere.
it really does depend on the culture and the brainwashing that each society has for its people.
we brainwash through our schools, media etc and we are told to conform in a certain way with regard to attitudes, values and behaviour anything outside of that box we are told to fear and regard as not enjoying freedom.
so these issues arent as black and white as you would suggest/imply
Originally posted by Osman8491: Since this is a secular country, I would like the freedom to practise my religion. Because this is a democratic country as well, I suppose the majority of people would like to keep the freedoms that are on offer as it is one of the core values of this country. Additionally, if freedom of expression is not allowed, it would impact all of society, not just Muslims.
Regards
But this country is a Christian country - Christian Laws - Christian Monarch - it is Christian!
if it is christian then it complies with everything that muslims believe in .
Thank you for your post. I get the impression that you are actually sincere in asking your questions rather than bigoted, so I applaud you for that.
quote:
Originally posted by Tequila_nic:
quote:
Originally posted by Osman8491: Greetings Nic,
Thank you for your post.
quote:
Originally posted by Tequila_nic: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Osman8491: You raise a very interesting point, but I disagree with it unfortunately. The difference is that this country claims to offer religious freedom and freedom of expression. Thus, to disallow Muslim women from wearing the veil would be hypocritical in that it would be in contradiction of the values that this country claims to uphold.
On the other hand, the said Muslim countries have never claimed to offer the same freedoms that this country does. Thus, it is not hypocritical on their part as they do not contradict their own laws or values in asking women to dress modestly in their country.
Regards
So it is ok for a muslim countrys to deny freedoms becasue they have never been on offer?
Yes. It is ok for them to uphold their own values.
quote:
Originally posted by Tequila_nic: Do you belive it is right that we continue to offer freedoms
Since this is a secular country, I would like the freedom to practise my religion. Because this is a democratic country as well, I suppose the majority of people would like to keep the freedoms that are on offer as it is one of the core values of this country. Additionally, if freedom of expression is not allowed, it would impact all of society, not just Muslims.
Regards
quote:
Originally posted by Tequila_nic:So you don’t believe the freedoms you enjoy should be applicable to everyone?
In a country that is governed by secular (as opposed to religious) law such as this one, I believe that the same freedoms should be applicable to everybody.
However, if this was a Christian country governed by Christian law, I would completely it if the same freedoms granted to Christians were not granted to other religous groups. If the same freedoms were granted to others, then it might as well not be a Christian country and the whole point would be that it is a Christian country.
By the same token, I believe that if a country is ruled by Islamic law, then other religous groups should not be able to enjoy the same religous freedoms as Muslims. Don't get me wrong. Muslims living in an Islamic state are obliged to treat the Non-Muslims well. For example, the Prophet Muhammad said the following with regards to Non-Muslims living in an Islamic state:
He who wrongs a Jew or a Christian will have myself as his accuser on the day of judgment.
"One who kills a man under covenant will not even smell the fragrance of Paradise"
In an Islamic state, Non-Muslims are given many rights, but there are also some restrictions on them as well. If all religions were equal in an Islamic state, then it wouldn't really be an Islamic state, would it? Do you get my point?
It is also important to make the distinction between an Islamic country and a Muslim country, in that countries today that are governed by Muslims do not necessarily follow Islamic law. In actual fact, there is no country today that is applying Islamic law to it's full extent correctly and in it's entirety.
quote:
Originally posted by Tequila_nic: As a Satanist, you see, the solution for me is simple as I believe we should treat others as they treat us (not the Christian treat others as you would like to be treated)
In that case, there is a strong difference between Islam and Satanism on this issue. As you will see at the bottom of all my posts:
The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:
"Shall I inform you of the best morals of this world and the hereafter?
They are to forgive he who oppresses you, to make a bond with he who severs from you, to be kind to he who insults you, and to give to he who deprives you."
That is how we should treat others according to Islam.
quote:
Originally posted by Tequila_nic: I’m glad you support freedom of speech though.
I don't support absolute freedom of speech. For example, I don't support freedom to insult - many Muslims and Non-Muslims alike are guilty of this.
quote:
Originally posted by Tequila_nic: One final question Do you believe that all faiths should be treated equally?
As I said above, I believe that in a secular country, every faith should be treated equally as the country is not ruled by the law of any particular religion.
However, if a country is ruled by the law of a particular religion, then I don't feel it is unreasonable for the freedoms of followers of other religions to be restricted.
I hope my post makes things clear.
Regards
The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:
"Shall I inform you of the best morals of this world and the hereafter?
They are to forgive he who oppresses you, to make a bond with he who severs from you, to be kind to he who insults you, and to give to he who deprives you."
Originally posted by Osman8491: Since this is a secular country, I would like the freedom to practise my religion. Because this is a democratic country as well, I suppose the majority of people would like to keep the freedoms that are on offer as it is one of the core values of this country. Additionally, if freedom of expression is not allowed, it would impact all of society, not just Muslims.
Regards
But this country is a Christian country - Christian Laws - Christian Monarch - it is Christian!
Although this country has a Christian heritage, it is no longer governed by Christianity. It is now governed by secular law.
Regards
The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:
"Shall I inform you of the best morals of this world and the hereafter?
They are to forgive he who oppresses you, to make a bond with he who severs from you, to be kind to he who insults you, and to give to he who deprives you."
Originally posted by jezzasexiles: No they implore that you should!
The Koran is full of open ended instructions to do so!
What evidence do you have for this claim?
Regards
The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:
"Shall I inform you of the best morals of this world and the hereafter?
They are to forgive he who oppresses you, to make a bond with he who severs from you, to be kind to he who insults you, and to give to he who deprives you."
