quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

Well what would you call a man who married a six year old?

I would call him by his name. Why, what would you call him?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
And hey! The Koran was dictated by one man not many

Agreed.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
- that man wasn't a prophet or even intelligent - he was a medieval thug!

Evidence?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
When a man dictates the word of God as he channels it – that brethren is a cult not a religion!

I'm not sure I know what you mean. Can you explain this?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
We only have Mohammed’s word that he heard the word of God don’t we!

That's true.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
Could it be he heard of Christians and plagiarised parts of the Bible

If you research the life of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), you will find that even before he became a Prophet, he was hailed by the people in his society as 'Al-Ameen' (the trustworthy). You will also find that he was notable by many people for his excellence of character and personality and for the way he treated even his worst enemies with dignity.

Furthermore, even many Non-Muslim historians praise him. I will share some of the things they say about him:

The famous French poet Alphonse de La Martaine said in his “Historie de La Turquie, Paris, 1954: “If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad?...Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs… The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and one of the spiritual empires that is Muhammad.

As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well as, is there any man greater than he?” A Christian Anglican author, Barnaby Rogerson (in his “the prophet Muhammad: A Biography”) enthusiastically said about the prophet Muhammad: “Even when viewed in an entirely secular respective, he remains a super hero… only by marrying the best qualities of certain characters from European civilization- a combination, say, of Alexander the Great, and Aristotle, or the Emperor Constantine, St. Paul and St. Francis- can you begin to understand the measure of the man.”

With all this in mind, it is highly unlikely that a man like him would do something like this. What benefit would he get from this? And does he sound like the kind of person who would want to achieve that kind of benefit?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
then added his own bits to enforce his cult by violence and threats?

What specific bits are you referring to?

Regards

Greetings jezzasexiles,

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
Is this clear Mohammedist?

From what I gathered from the information you posted, Mohammedists = Muslims.

Is that correct?

Regards

Greetings,

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
Is this definitive enough or do you want more

I don't require any more, since the ahadith you quoted all come from Sahih Bukhari, which is regarded as one of the most authentic books of ahadith.

I'm glad to see that the source of your information here is authentic.

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by Osman8491:

If you research the life of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), you will find that even before he became a Prophet, he was hailed by the people in his society as 'Al-Ameen' (the trustworthy). You will also find that he was notable by many people for his excellence of character and personality and for the way he treated even his worst enemies with dignity.

Furthermore, even many Non-Muslim historians praise him. I will share some of the things they say about him:

The famous French poet Alphonse de La Martaine said in his “Historie de La Turquie, Paris, 1954: “If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad?...Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs… The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and one of the spiritual empires that is Muhammad.

As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well as, is there any man greater than he?” A Christian Anglican author, Barnaby Rogerson (in his “the prophet Muhammad: A Biography”) enthusiastically said about the prophet Muhammad: “Even when viewed in an entirely secular respective, he remains a super hero… only by marrying the best qualities of certain characters from European civilization- a combination, say, of Alexander the Great, and Aristotle, or the Emperor Constantine, St. Paul and St. Francis- can you begin to understand the measure of the man.”

With all this in mind, it is highly unlikely that a man like him would do something like this. What benefit would he get from this? And does he sound like the kind of person who would want to achieve that kind of benefit?

Ahhh – the old Islam should be taken historically and any non Mohammedist should not take heed of it anyway - LOL
Once again from the top - Islam is not a religion!
The Koran is not a Bible – The Koran is a book which Mohammedists live by – so the old Historical argument does not fly!

Although early parts of the Koran are based upon parts of Hebrew scripture and the Bible - that is where Islam and the 'religious bit' parted their ways!

Islam is a political Ideology based upon the instruction book of a cult - period.

Any reference to God as it were is simply justifying the expansion and genocide as the will of him.

The Bible says you should not Kill - the Koran implores you should!

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
Ahhh – the old Islam should be taken historically and any non Mohammedist should not take heed of it anyway - LOL

I neither said any of this, nor did I imply it.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
Once again from the top - Islam is not a religion!

On what basis do you make this claim?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
The Koran is not a Bible

Agreed. The Qur'an is the Qur'an and the Bible is the Bible.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
– The Koran is a book which Mohammedists live by

If by Mohammedists you mean Muslims, then I also agree with this.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
so the old Historical argument does not fly!

What historical argument?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
Although early parts of the Koran are based upon parts of Hebrew scripture and the Bible

What is your evidence for this?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
Islam is a political Ideology based upon the instruction book of a cult - period.

Islam does encompass it's own political system as well, I agree but that doesn't negate the fact that it is a religion.

The word 'cult' has many connotations. In what sense are you using this word?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
Any reference to God as it were is simply justifying the expansion and genocide as the will of him.

Evidence?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
The Bible says you should not Kill

Agreed.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
the Koran implores you should!

Evidence?

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

I have read the Koran and 3 Hadiths downloaded on my phone - LOL

What is the name of the translator of the Qur'an that you read?

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
Although an associate (mentor) tells me he was banned from this system for posting excerpts of the Koran on line?

I can't imagine why.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
Is it your intention to lead me into being banned for pasting excerpts of the Koran too?

No, absolutely not.

Greetings,

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
I am not pasting you the relevent passages from your book - you know them by now!

I'm afraid I don't know which passages you are referring to. That's why I asked you.

Regards

quote:

Originally posted by Tequila_nic:

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
No they implore that you should!

The Koran is full of open ended instructions to do so!

Thanks. But I would rather have wendymann answer.

Nic


Nic

Its actually 'Thou shalt not murder', which is why Israel and the bible thumbers in the US have a death penalty. The same commandment is in islam too though.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

quote:

Originally posted by Osman8491:

Anyway, can you expand further on this 'Underage marriage of Mohammed'?

Regards

Certainly!

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).


Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Is this definitive enough or do you want more - these are all Mohammedist works no non-Mohammedist reference all Hadiths!

All from Aisha herself or Hishams father (Thats Yazids father too).

So, what is the isnad on the hadiths?
Could it be, jezzasexiles, that you are randomly picking hadiths without any knowledge of the situation of the story actually behind them?

Why do you think that the Shia flatly reject those hadiths you just quoted?

quote:

Originally posted by hi_There:

Why do you think that the Shia flatly reject those hadiths you just quoted?

Is it becasue it would prove mo had sex with a 9 year old child?

Nic

quote:

Originally posted by hi_There:


ll from Aisha herself or Hishams father (Thats Yazids father too).

So, what is the isnad on the hadiths?
Could it be, jezzasexiles, that you are randomly picking hadiths without any knowledge of the situation of the story actually behind them?

Why do you think that the Shia flatly reject those hadiths you just quoted?

Have you actually read a Hadith?

Have you actually read The Koran?

Is this why the Shias have produced several 'false Hadiths'?

I have no reason to doubt the Hadiths as they all tie in with the historical events of the time (battles recorded triumphs etc)

I could post you proof from several Hadiths to back my assertions up - can you back your's?

With who?

Whats important about this particular woman?
Who is she?
Why would she want to prove that she was divinely chosen as a young girl befire, say, oh I don't know.. Ali married Fatima?!

If you don't know the history don't comment on the little bits you garner wthout fully understanding their relevence.

Did you know, for example, that a great supporter of a potential state of Israel was Eichmann? So much so that he was in attendence at the 20th Zionist congress.
Out of context - Eichmann supports Jews.
in Context. Eichmann hated Jews and wanted them all 'transferred' away from Europe - The Context eing his role in the holocaust.

The great islamic Fitna is the clash between Aisha and Fatima. Both had to explain their own devine relevence, whom God had chosen from a young age to lead the Muslims. It came to a head at the battle of the camel.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

quote:

Originally posted by hi_There:


ll from Aisha herself or Hishams father (Thats Yazids father too).

So, what is the isnad on the hadiths?
Could it be, jezzasexiles, that you are randomly picking hadiths without any knowledge of the situation of the story actually behind them?

Why do you think that the Shia flatly reject those hadiths you just quoted?

Have you actually read a Hadith?

Have you actually read The Koran?

Is this why the Shias have produced several 'false Hadiths'?

I have no reason to doubt the Hadiths as they all tie in with the historical events of the time (battles recorded triumphs etc)

I could post you proof from several Hadiths to back my assertions up - can you back your's?

you have no reason to doubt the hadiths?
So.. you believe that Muhammad ascended to heaven, made the moon split into two, mcreatd a river from nothing, filled a dry pot with water... etc?

quote:

Originally posted by Tequila_nic:

quote:

Originally posted by wendymann:

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

quote:

Originally posted by Osman8491:
Since this is a secular country, I would like the freedom to practise my religion. Because this is a democratic country as well, I suppose the majority of people would like to keep the freedoms that are on offer as it is one of the core values of this country. Additionally, if freedom of expression is not allowed, it would impact all of society, not just Muslims.

Regards

But this country is a Christian country - Christian Laws - Christian Monarch - it is Christian!

if it is christian then it complies with everything that muslims believe in .

so whats the problem?

thou shall not kill

do muslims belive this?

Nic

yes of course they do.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:
No they implore that you should!

The Koran is full of open ended instructions to do so!

The Quran appears to refer to the Decalogue and to urge that they be followed; however it does not contain the actual text:

007.145 "And We ordained laws for him in the tablets in all matters, both commanding and explaining all things, (and said): 'Take and hold these with firmness, and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts'..."

17:33: And do not take any human being's life - that God willed to be sacred - other than in [the pursuit of] justice."

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

quote:

Originally posted by wendymann:

if it is christian then it complies with everything that muslims believe in .

so whats the problem?

Erm hello Wendy? Anybody home?

When was the last time you heard a Christian shout 'make war on the unbeliever'?

George Bush has never actually shouted it. But he has actually spent trillions of dollars to make war on the countries that don't believe the same as he does.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

quote:

Originally posted by Osman8491:

What evidence do you have for this claim?

Regards

Well what would you call a man who married a six year old?

And hey! The Koran was dictated by one man not many - that man wasn't a prophet or even intelligent - he was a medieval thug!

When a man dictates the word of God as he channels it – that brethren is a cult not a religion!

We only have Mohammed’s word that he heard the word of God don’t we!
Could it be he heard of Christians and plagiarised parts of the Bible then added his own bits to enforce his cult by violence and threats?

I'm not aware that the Prophet Muhammad (sallalahu aleyei wa salem) married a 6 year old. And even if he did, it is unlawful in Islam to have sexual relations with a prepubescent female.

quote:

Originally posted by jezzasexiles:

quote:

Originally posted by Osman8491:

If you research the life of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), you will find that even before he became a Prophet, he was hailed by the people in his society as 'Al-Ameen' (the trustworthy). You will also find that he was notable by many people for his excellence of character and personality and for the way he treated even his worst enemies with dignity.

Furthermore, even many Non-Muslim historians praise him. I will share some of the things they say about him:

The famous French poet Alphonse de La Martaine said in his “Historie de La Turquie, Paris, 1954: “If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad?...Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs… The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and one of the spiritual empires that is Muhammad.

As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well as, is there any man greater than he?” A Christian Anglican author, Barnaby Rogerson (in his “the prophet Muhammad: A Biography”) enthusiastically said about the prophet Muhammad: “Even when viewed in an entirely secular respective, he remains a super hero… only by marrying the best qualities of certain characters from European civilization- a combination, say, of Alexander the Great, and Aristotle, or the Emperor Constantine, St. Paul and St. Francis- can you begin to understand the measure of the man.”

With all this in mind, it is highly unlikely that a man like him would do something like this. What benefit would he get from this? And does he sound like the kind of person who would want to achieve that kind of benefit?

Ahhh – the old Islam should be taken historically and any non Mohammedist should not take heed of it anyway - LOL
Once again from the top - Islam is not a religion!
The Koran is not a Bible – The Koran is a book which Mohammedists live by – so the old Historical argument does not fly!

Although early parts of the Koran are based upon parts of Hebrew scripture and the Bible - that is where Islam and the 'religious bit' parted their ways!

Islam is a political Ideology based upon the instruction book of a cult - period.

Any reference to God as it were is simply justifying the expansion and genocide as the will of him.

The Bible says you should not Kill - the Koran implores you should!

Islam is not a religion? Do you actually know what a religion is? What is your religion?

Dear Yuze,

Showing head hair is sharing their beauty?

How come they have only decided that in recent years?

How do they offset that against the negative effects it has on the indigenous population?

What about the ugly ones - what's their reasons?

Dear Mr Balaclava9,

Showing head hair is sharing their beauty. Hair is 50% of a womans beauty. Imagine if a woman shave off her hair, would she be as attractive? What if she died it green and shave half and left a nice pony tail on the left, would she be as attractive?

The Hijab has been observed by muslim (people who have submitted to the will of the Creator of the heavens and earth) women since before Islam. Take Mary the virgin mother of Jesus for example.

Do you have a problem with catholic nuns wearing hijab?

Are you scared of a woman in a veil? Is eye contact with them intimidating? Is the body language aggressive?

The ones you would describe as ugly, are observing the hijab to please the Creator, not to displease those who oppose to it, simply to follow religious instructions.

The Veil

Scared – No
Intimidated – Yes
Disturbed - Yes
Affronted – Yes
Insulted - Yes

Why – I do not believe that the vast majority of the women wearing the veil are wearing for the reasons you state. I believe they are wearing it to make a statement and that statement is “I am a Muslim and I am a fundamentalist Muslim or I support the ideals of fundamentalist Muslims and you are a Kuffar and although I choose to live in the UK my loyalty lies with Muslims in other countries not to the country that feeds and protects me.”

I find that statement intimidating, disturbing, insulting and I am affronted