Hi I’ve never posted in this forum before but I watched the F word last night and saw the pigs being slaughtered. I feel ashamed to say that I only had a very brief knowledge of how animals are slaughtered. I was quite surprised at how quick it was but was still shocked by it. I think it was very important to show where our meat comes from, and am now surprised that something like this hasn’t been shown much on TV before. I went away with the feeling that maybe it wasn’t that bad and that the animals are stunned so they don’t really know what’s going on.

However, I wanted to find out more information about it and I found some very disturbing truths about slaughterhouses and farmed factories. I ended up on the PETA website that has shown me the most shocking images I have ever seen, and the worst animal cruelty.

I really don’t know what to do for my food choices now, I want to change and make the right choices. I want to know what the animal welfares are like in this country.

I’m not looking for any kind of argument from anyone on this forum I would like to know if anyone has any advice for me to what choices I should make food wise. And if they could give me any knowledge on what the regulations are like in slaughterhouses for this country.

I sorry if anything in this message sounds naïve or ignorant but you have to understand that I am only just learning about it.

somethingpretty, have you worked in a slaughterhouse ever?

Thats a really good post Sue82. Where were the slaughter houses that were shown on the PETA website - UK or Europe? If they were in Europe, I wonder if the slaughter houses in the UK are better?

I have always thought that buying british over foreign meat is better - for our economy as well as the fact we have tighter regulations on the farming and killing of animals than other places (I'm speculating - if people can put me right please feel free to!!).

And also that buying from a butcher rather than the supermarket is better too - is this true?

Does the meat in the supermarket come from larger slughter houses that are more likely to be working to a quota and thus the stunning etc is not carried out correctly whereas the meat in your local butchers comes form smaller better run establishments?

Like, Sue82 said, I probably sound naive but I'm only learning!!

Sue82:

Please don't beleive all you see on PETA'S website. Animal cruelty in abbatoirs is very rare today in the UK.
Animal welfare is a key issue in all abbatoirs, both for producers and the enforcement bodies. Happy animals produce better quality meat and welfare problems can result in a premises having it's licence revoked.
As for regulations, we have some of the strictest in the world here in the UK. All abbatoirs are staffed by Government inspectors permanently as well as a Government contracted veterinary surgeon. They ensure compliance from the animal's arrival right through to the meat being dispatched.

Hope that helps you out a bit Sue!

brocolli:

Larger abbatoirs producing for supermarkets actually tend to be better.

They can afford to buy the best stock for a start, and have far more to lose if any problems occur. Any hint of a welfare prosecution and the supermarket will pull out it's order as they cannot afford to be linked.

painfulpaintball - that makes a lot of sense! Thanks

Thank you both for your reply’s. Answering your question brocolli of ‘Where were the slaughter houses that were shown on the PETA website?’ I’m not too sure, I know one of the websites I went on the pictures were from a U.S farm factory/slaughterhouse.

To paintfulpaintball, your reply was excellent. I did think that maybe I was seeing the worst of the worst, but with me having such little knowledge on it, I thought maybe this was really happening in our country and all around the world. I do realise that this could still be going on in other parts of the world but the information you have given me about abattoir in this country has made me feel better. As you can imagine I have seen some pretty shocking things in the last 24 hours, and I think you have given me the answers I have been looking for.

It still saddens me though to think that this could be happening to some animals right now somewhere in the world. But I think the more we are educated about it the better it will be in the future.

how were they killed i missed it ? :

It does amaze me that people who eat meat, that they buy from supermarkets or butchers STILL fail to realise that YES this is a dead animal.......the pigs were stunned and then hung up and the throats cut.......Gordon was clearly shocked.....but this is how we get our bacon

Personally, although it is an unpleasant sight, I feel that if you eat the meat, you should witness how it comes to be neatly chopped up ready for your oven. If you don't you're burying your head in the sand. If you disagree with the process - don't eat it! I too was more disturbed by the intense pig farming feature on the F Word and the castration without pain relief.

Incidentally, the movements were involutary nerve twitches and the 'grunting' was the noise of the air in the lungs coming out through the slit throat. True - nobody can ever be 100% certain that it doesn't hurt at some point. Again - pay your money & take your choice.

I wonder how many people who were offended by it eat fois gras? But that's another can of worms ...

quote:

Originally posted by LizeeeH:
It does amaze me that people who eat meat, that they buy from supermarkets or butchers STILL fail to realise that YES this is a dead animal.......the pigs were stunned and then hung up and the throats cut.......Gordon was clearly shocked.....but this is how we get our bacon

I do and don’t understand your post here.

Yes I can understand why people can be very annoyed that someone can eat meat and then be very upset when they see it being killed.

However I also believe that people who eat meat are very aware that it was once in fact a living animal and it is now a dead animal. What they (and I) probably fail to realise is the process it goes through to go from a cow to a burger, so I totally agree that if you eat the meat you should witness its death. But I also believe that if you are someone who has been brought up on a meat eating diet isn’t it only until you are older and you start to learn about the slaughtering of an animal, and the process it goes through to get onto your plate, that you are then allowed to decide whether or not you carry on eating meat? Or whether you think it is right or wrong?

I think that Jamie Oliver summed it up quite well in the episode where he killed a lamb. The gist of what he said was "I've cooked probably 2000 sheep in my time and I'd be a fraud if I wasn't prepared to kill one of them myself".

The whole process isn't nice but it is a fact of life as a carnivore and it doesn't hurt to show people what happens because maybe then they'll be a bit more interested in the welfare of the animals prior to slaughter.

If I'm going to eat something I'd rather know that it had been well treated and enjoyed a decent standard of living until the point where it's slaughtered than some poor creature that's kept in such unspeakable conditions that the abbatoir is a merciful release.

Whilst it makes good tv and is quite shocking, there is real value in making people confront things like this - if one person takes more interest in where their meat comes from and buys more responsibly then it's worthwhile.

Must say though that it's a pleasure to see the reasoned and compassionate reactions to the episode on this board.

quote:

Originally posted by HRC99:
I think that Jamie Oliver summed it up quite well in the episode where he killed a lamb. The gist of what he said was "I've cooked probably 2000 sheep in my time and I'd be a fraud if I wasn't prepared to kill one of them myself".

The whole process isn't nice but it is a fact of life as a carnivore and it doesn't hurt to show people what happens because maybe then they'll be a bit more interested in the welfare of the animals prior to slaughter.

If I'm going to eat something I'd rather know that it had been well treated and enjoyed a decent standard of living until the point where it's slaughtered than some poor creature that's kept in such unspeakable conditions that the abbatoir is a merciful release.

Whilst it makes good tv and is quite shocking, there is real value in making people confront things like this - if one person takes more interest in where their meat comes from and buys more responsibly then it's worthwhile.

Must say though that it's a pleasure to see the reasoned and compassionate reactions to the episode on this board.

What a brilliant post I agree with everything you have said there.

A few comments.

I signed up here onthe basis of what I saw on the F word, that being the slaughter of the pigs. I initially just want to say I admire Gordon's morals (yes! - no typo) for facing the slaughter and facing the consequences of his actions and decisions. If it had been me I would have been shaking and maybe running out the room but he stayed and watched.

I think he's an OK guy w.r.t. welfare as i remember him killing the lobster straight out (rather than embroiling in the do they don't they arguement) and even his little snail section, he told viewers to chill them to put them into a deep sleep.

Points raised in the thread:
*We cannot really say the slaughter was quick because this was edited footage. It *seemed* to be quick.
*There is a slaughter house nr me and I can well remember the day I stood and listened to pigs squealing. There were a lot - an unknown number - at first but gradually there were just 3 pigs quealing, then 2, then 1, then silence. I can well believe what we saw was a top class slaughter operation but don't forget they were also being filmed.
*The person who said pigs may be alive thru boiling and gutting - think about it eh?
*Its a bit disturbing to write off movements and sounds of the pigs as 'just last nerves' etc. Afterall all we are, and feel throug, is 'just nerves'. There is a niggling feeling than maybe, just maybe there are also last nerves feeding pain to a dying brain.

My first post so if this formatting don't work

Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall brought out a great book entitled "Meat", a good read for all meat eaters, really made me think about where I purchase the meat I consume, and using the whole animal, not just the usual joints.

for a good discussion on all food subjects his rivercottage website and forum is great source of information.

Yes if you think all slaughters go like the one filmed your sadly mistaken......slaughterhouses are hell on earth where animals do suffer......but the UK is high on the list for ALL animal cruelty, dogs, cats etc etc......if anyone is that horrified by it then dont eat meat....

The UK abattoirs do have strict guidelines, but they are very rarely followed. I saw a documentary on BBC2 about 3 months ago. They had secret cameras in a British Slaughterhouse, and one employee was seen kicking a pig to death that was having a heart attack. Just because we have more regulations it doesnt mean they are any less cruel.

I’m sorry Kid A, but I strongly disagree. It is important, and in my own opinion, the responsibility of consumers to be aware of the way in which their food is provided. For this reason alone, I totally dismiss your opinion that this makes bad television.
The public desperately needs to wake up and smell the coffee! It is totally hypocritical for people to say that such television viewing is distasteful, having only hours earlier participated in carnivorous indulgences. In regards to your comment about Ramsay obviously having something missing, it seems you didn’t observe the look of distraught on his face. Clearly he was upset and I embrace him for the balls it took to actually stand there and allow it.
If you’re going to bring up the old excuse that you’re a vegetarian – SAVE IT! So far as I know, all episodes have featured some form of recipe containing meat, fish, poultry, and now, the odd snail or two. And besides – hasn’t Gordon made it obvious enough that he thinks vegetarians are fools? Fair enough – go be a vegetarian – I will respect you for that, but don’t come complaining about a programme hosted by a true meat lover!! Just go and set up the Linda McCartney Channel – I’m sure you’ll have many viewers…I have to insist that it its you who is in fact being the t**t.

quote:

Originally posted by glitterball:
The UK abattoirs do have strict guidelines, but they are very rarely followed. I saw a documentary on BBC2 about 3 months ago. They had secret cameras in a British Slaughterhouse, and one employee was seen kicking a pig to death that was having a heart attack. Just because we have more regulations it doesnt mean they are any less cruel.

Beleive everything you see on the telly?

I can assure you such incidents are far from common in UK abbatoirs. As I said previously companies have too much to lose and the meat industry is already on it's knees.

What was this documentary anyway? There was one a while ago where cameras were in a slaughterhouse filming but they weren't hidden and no pigs were kicked to death.

I haven't eaten meat for around 26 years, so I was interested to come on this forum to read people's views on the slaughtering of the pigs last night.
I accept that some people eat meat and some don't but what I can't stand is the minority of people who do not appreciate, or stop to think, where their meat comes from.
I think it's good to remind people of exactly what they're eating and by showing scenes like that, hopefully it will make more people stop to appreciate what's on their plate.

quote:

Originally posted by alivanb:
I accept that some people eat meat and some don't but what I can't stand is the minority of people who do not appreciate, or stop to think, where their meat comes from.

Yeah I can see your point here but I just don’t think things are that black and white.

For some people this was the first time they have seen a pig being slaughtered and were shocked by it. Some people seem to think that was a bad thing, I don’t really get how it is a bad thing. I can remember when I was a kid and I was eating my Sunday roast and I asked my mum what was beef? And my mum chirpily replied cow! I nearly threw up, but because my mum and dad were so accepting of it, I was.

Slaughtering has not been shown much on TV at all, that’s why some people were so shocked by it and said it shouldn’t of be shown. But it just shows us what an affect it has had on people and that it is now important to show it. Wouldn’t people have been more shocked if everyone came onto this forum and said ‘Yeah saw it last night, didn’t think it was that bad’ and weren’t open minded enough to question what is it really like for the large groups of animals that go to the slaughterhouse? Is it really that humane? Or is it more of a production line? People now want know what kind of lives these animals are having, and how can we make it better for them? Surely that is a good outcome to people being shocked by it, and now realising were their meat come from.

Thank you for all your posts. It's made me think twice about the meat on my plate and where I buy it from.

quote:

Originally posted by sassyest:
Thank you for all your posts. It's made me think twice about the meat on my plate and where I buy it from.

Good for you. It's clear from this forum and talking to friends, family and colleagues that at the very least it's provoked a debate on the whole issue.