quote:

Originally posted by painfulpaintball:
brocolli:

Larger abbatoirs producing for supermarkets actually tend to be better.

They can afford to buy the best stock for a start, and have far more to lose if any problems occur. Any hint of a welfare prosecution and the supermarket will pull out it's order as they cannot afford to be linked.

Hi Painful

Your posts seem insightful - do you or someone you know have experience of working in a slaughterhouse. I'm like Sue too - I'm just learning about all this and need to gather information to make an informed choice about the food I eat - cheers x

I think bring abortions into this is straying off the topic somewhat....a lot of abortions are carried out due to drunken one night stands.....wether you regard the pigs as futile or not the welfare of any animals going to slaughter should be paramount, as a farm vet Im more than aware of this and if the programme has made a few people sit up and think all well and good.

quote:

Originally posted by LizeeeH:
I think bring abortions into this is straying off the topic

Definitely agree

Just because people are discussing the welfare of animals does not mean that we care any less about other things that are going on in the world.

It was so sad. I sat there with tears running down my face.
At least it was not as cruel when Jamie Oliver slaughtered the live sheep!!!

quote:

Originally posted by LizeeeH:
I think bring abortions into this is straying off the topic somewhat....a lot of abortions are carried out due to drunken one night stands.....wether you regard the pigs as futile or not the welfare of any animals going to slaughter should be paramount, as a farm vet Im more than aware of this and if the programme has made a few people sit up and think all well and good.

As a farm vet you are making a living out of puting animals to sleep as well as making them better,so you know about both sides of the coin, and I still think continuing talking about these two pigs is futile.And you are way off the reason for bringing up abortions. I used it in the context that there are worse things happening to humans, that happen to pigs.
As for your remarks about abortions being carried out due to drunken one night stands, then that shows your ignorance,and you dont mind straying off the topic to make an inane remark like that, there are just as much abortions carried out on innocent people who are raped. Stupid woman or man. whatever,go and roll about in the mud with the pigs.

quote:

Originally posted by LizeeeH:
I think bring abortions into this is straying off the topic somewhat....a lot of abortions are carried out due to drunken one night stands.....wether you regard the pigs as futile or not the welfare of any animals going to slaughter should be paramount, as a farm vet Im more than aware of this and if the programme has made a few people sit up and think all well and good.

Get in the real world, your world is your financial involvement with animals, because you get paid to kill them or heal them, I did not say it wasnt hard for the animals, I am just saying there are more things going on in the world that causes much more pain and stress, than two pigs getting slaughtered. Get a life get over it, and stop making such a big thing out of these two pigs. I dont know how old you are but, you have a lot more to learn about life if you are young, and the everyday slaughtering of animals, that has been going on for centuries, is just a drop in the ocean to what life is really about,and things that are going on in the world.

quote:

Originally posted by bohemianbikerbri:
A few comments.

I signed up here onthe basis of what I saw on the F word, that being the slaughter of the pigs. I initially just want to say I admire Gordon's morals (yes! - no typo) for facing the slaughter and facing the consequences of his actions and decisions. If it had been me I would have been shaking and maybe running out the room but he stayed and watched.

I think he's an OK guy w.r.t. welfare as i remember him killing the lobster straight out (rather than embroiling in the do they don't they arguement) and even his little snail section, he told viewers to chill them to put them into a deep sleep.

Points raised in the thread:
*We cannot really say the slaughter was quick because this was edited footage. It *seemed* to be quick.
*There is a slaughter house nr me and I can well remember the day I stood and listened to pigs squealing. There were a lot - an unknown number - at first but gradually there were just 3 pigs quealing, then 2, then 1, then silence. I can well believe what we saw was a top class slaughter operation but don't forget they were also being filmed.
*The person who said pigs may be alive thru boiling and gutting - think about it eh?
*Its a bit disturbing to write off movements and sounds of the pigs as 'just last nerves' etc. Afterall all we are, and feel throug, is 'just nerves'. There is a niggling feeling than maybe, just maybe there are also last nerves feeding pain to a dying brain.

My first post so if this formatting don't work

I think Gordon had to be there when it happened, otherwise he would have been slagged off for not being there. Either way, it is part of life, if we eat meat, then animals are slaughtered. In Britain we have the highest level of protection against any illegal ways that would not be carried out on animals that are slaughtered. Rest assured everything in abbatoirs will be regularly checked and investigated to ensure that everything was carried out in a lawful and human way for all animals.
Keep posting.

quote:

Originally posted by princesslia:

quote:

Originally posted by LizeeeH:
I think bring abortions into this is straying off the topic somewhat....a lot of abortions are carried out due to drunken one night stands.....wether you regard the pigs as futile or not the welfare of any animals going to slaughter should be paramount, as a farm vet Im more than aware of this and if the programme has made a few people sit up and think all well and good.

As a farm vet you are making a living out of puting animals to sleep as well as making them better,so you know about both sides of the coin, and I still think continuing talking about these two pigs is futile.And you are way off the reason for bringing up abortions. I used it in the context that there are worse things happening to humans, that happen to pigs.
As for your remarks about abortions being carried out due to drunken one night stands, then that shows your ignorance,and you dont mind straying off the topic to make an inane remark like that, there are just as much abortions carried out on innocent people who are raped. Stupid woman or man. whatever,go and roll about in the mud with the pigs.

Other people obviously do not think that this discussion is futile other wise there would not be a discussion at all.

If it is not important to you then why are you posting in here in the first place? you have taken it completely off topic and are now making it personal.

If you want to discuss human torture, rapes, murders and abortions, then I suggest you go onto a forum with that kind of topic in mind.

I get paid to kill animals???? I didnt go through years of vet school to KILL animals......but animal welfare means a lot to me probably why I wanted to be a vet in the first place. You seem VERY immature in your comments, Im sure everyone on this forum cares deeply about what goes on in the world but the discussion on here is about the slaughter houses and how it affects us. Keep your personal comments to yourself please this is a good and interesting debate and NO I wont go roll in the mud with the pigs.....what a silly thing to say?

I am a vegetarian, but my policy is that I can only eat meat if I kill it myself. This probably seems a little extreme. My thinking is that we don't need to eat meat. We have alot of different types of foods from which to gain nutrients, and food has become very easy to get; that is, the days of hunting and gathering for necessity are over. I feel that it is respectful toward living things to understand how they are killed, and to be man/woman enough to be able to kill them if you're going to eat them.
So far I have only killed fish, shrimp, and lobsters. I haven't been able to bring myself to kill a larger animal like a pig, which has a level of intellect comparable to a dog. And so, if I can't handle the process of killing the animal, and giving it the respect it deserves, then I don't deserve to eat it.
Now, this is just something I believe for myself, I've told other people about it, but I don't suggest that they stop eating meat. What other people do is their business.
I have visited a slaughterhouse here in the U.S., and also several cattle farms owned by family and friends. Even when the guidelines are followed and the staff is compassionate, which is usually the case, its not a pretty picture. The main problem as far as I can tell, is that there is just too many animals going through the process at once. The killing of animals shouldn't be a part of mass production. There is no room for empathy and compassion in the cycle of supply and demand on a large scale.
I have alot of respect for hunters (who are not just hunting for trophies) because the process of hunting, killing, and eating is something people have been doing for centuries, and are indeed designed to do. Its the whole circle of life thing. I don't see the circle of life as God intended being played out at slaughterhouses and supermarkets.
One more thing, if you're curious, its very easy to visit a slaughterhouse. Just look one up and call and make an appointment. That way you can see for yourself what goes on without being subject to animal rights groups or beef industry propagandists.

You keep harping on about abortions....why? We are taking about slaughtering animals for human consumption.Believe me I can take more flak than you can give and not stoop to your level and retaliate.

Thanks for the thumbs up Princesslia.
With respect tho your arguement could be used to cannabalise itself untill we arrive at 'the ultimate' in human depravity such as third world nations crippled by debt to the extent most of their populations offspring starve/dehudrate/fall terminally ill before their 5th birthday. Those people who deem that a greater evil could tell you to 'get in the real world' etc etc. But would that affect the fire in your belly about abortions? I doubt it because that is an area YOU feel strongly about and you gravitate towards that rather than an even greater evil. Its the same here I would guess with people and humain slaughter questions. They aren't necessarily uncaring about abortions its just that this means more to them.

If you were burgled would you inform the Police or would you think they must need all their powers to catch murderers and rapists?

Theres room for all kinds of concern on every level.

Take care

Bri

quote:

Originally posted by kickwunder:
And so, if I can't handle the process of killing the animal, and giving it the respect it deserves, then I don't deserve to eat it.

kickwunder that is one very insightful phliosophy imo.

I'm afraid we are no longer hunter gatherers tho and and we need to evolve to our new status by using mass culling to feed the mass consumers that are centralised, consumerised and not connected (often in any way at all) with the process of growing food. There are no easy answers.

Very interesting Kickwunder!
We have a programme over here in the UK called "view from river cottage", the guy is another chef but grows and kills all his own produce, last night he shot a buck deer and cooked it for a wedding party!

i was discusted at the way the pigs were slaughtered, channel 4 didnt even warn anyone that it was going to be gruesome, im 15 years old and i love watching gordon ramsy because i cook at school and i was apauled at how they were killed my mum was literally vomiting it was a scene that shouldnt have been shown at all

Sorry to hear you were so upset, they did actually warn you before the programme started and then again after the last commercial break.

It was 'better' than I thought it was going to be. Pretty quick anyway. My only worry was the 2nd pig would get a bit distressed after seeing the demise of the first. And I would have thought the smell of the abbatoir would really frighten them as well. But they did seem pretty relaxed. Glad they were stunned first and, to be honest, after they came out of the scalding thing, you could barely relate them to the happy porkers with personality beforehand.

At least they had a good life and were fairly happy, if only for a short while.

Still dont know if I could do it myself though.....but I daresay the crap we get from the supermarkets is treated much worse!

no but dont people just support third world countries through video proof? in fact no without being individual what a ridiculous thing to say. as well as having so much undercover proof about the reality of what goes on in slaughter houses, the ar movement also has statements from people who have worked in every section of the slaughter industry confirming the already heavily backed up evidence. we're an educated lot us animal rights people. its not just hearsay you know or we wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
enough said x

Hand on heart in all my time working in slaughterhouses I have NEVER seen an animal being subjected to any level of cruelty. Maybe I've just been lucky, who knows but I also know that none of my colleagues have ever seen it either. I'm not saying it doesn't happen only that it is very rare and most companies will sack any employee caught mistreating an animal.
Yes it isn't pretty, but slaughter is as humane as possible.

And Pammie, check out my other posts re supermarket produce.

paintfulpaintball, I thought you worked in a slaughterhouse just because as Squelchy said your posts are so insightful.

There is like a million questions I want to ask you, but I just don’t think that this is the place to ask.

It’s good that someone is posting in here that does know all the facts, instead of people just guessing what’s going on in the slaughterhouses.

Now I’m wondering if you were one of the guys who was there when Gordon Ramsey had his pigs slaughtered. (Don’t worry you don’t have to answer that one, I’m just being cheeky )

Makes you think about the food on your plate, didnt it?

Here we had two pigs, raised carefully and organically by their owner, who took them to be killed by a skilled professional, who had despatched them within seconds.

Contrast that with the mass produced pork that you find on the supermarket shelves. If you're going to eat meat and are worried about standards, buy organic from a small producer (loads to choose from on the internet who do mail order). I've hardly bought meat for the shops for the last couple of years.

quote:

Originally posted by Morris123:
Makes you think about the food on your plate, didnt it?

Here we had two pigs, raised carefully and organically by their owner, who took them to be killed by a skilled professional, who had despatched them within seconds.

Contrast that with the mass produced pork that you find on the supermarket shelves. If you're going to eat meat and are worried about standards, buy organic from a small producer (loads to choose from on the internet who do mail order). I've hardly bought meat for the shops for the last couple of years.

Sorry to have to dissilusion everyone, but it's all in the luck of the gods, so to say. Linda Mcartney was a vegetarian she died of cancer.
My brother did not smoke or drink,rarely eat meat, he died of cancer, I really dont think it matters what you eat vegetarian, vegan, meat, none of us chose to get the illness we get,and I
still think there is far too much fuss about these two pigs dying, proably at the time these pigs died, there were some poor parents who lost their child or family friend to cancer, that is the point I was just trying to make. And Lizee was wrong, when she immediately jumped back at me saying that abortions were brought about by women having one night stands.
That got me, and I had to retaliate, and put my point across. Sorry for offending people over this, but, that is how I felt at the time.

I'm sorry ,but I really think Princesslia is on the wrong forum.Whether or not I agree with her opinions about abortion ,or the state of the world in general is neither here nor there, this is about the slaughtering of GR's pigs .
I live in Spain , and it's not , ( unfortunately ) uncommon to see goats being killed by the side of the road. Where I walk my dog , I've often see the shepherd stringing up and killing a lamb,I do find that very disturbing,although I know the shepherd as a nice enough man, it's his job,and he does not use an abbatoir . There is near here a small shed which is used as an abbatoir for killing pigs. It's just by the side of the road in full view of all passing traffic.These are not sights I like to see , but they are very much part of the way these spanish people live.When the pig killing takes place ,there are always plenty of bottles of beer being passed around,for the men , I get the impression that they enjoy it , somehow I don't for one minute think the pig does ! Different countries have diferent rules , and in poor areas people do things very differently. Do I eat meat ? Yes,Do I love animals ? Yes. Do I feel hypocritical ? Sometimes.
Princesslia , please stay on the subject matter ,there must be other forums elsewhere that will allow you free rein on other aspects of life.