quote:
Originally posted by Barry The Lad:
The loss of the main female characters by departure or downgrading is making series four more like an episode of Eastenders than a comedy. Veronica and Sheila are gone and they were the source of most of the really funny stuff.
Shameless is not just a comedy though and never has been, it's always been a comedy drama. Yes Sheila and Veronica were good sources of comedy and sadly they've gone but we still have Frank, Lilian, Paddy, Mimi, Jez, Carol, Norma & Yvone. Who add massive a massive amount of comedy which you obviously under value.
quote:
Originally posted by Barry The Lad:
Monica coming back and giving up her lesbian lifestyle also measn we'll lose Norma - Norma wasn't politically correct but she was very funny.
Thankfully Norma is now a permanent character and will be staying in the show even though she's not with Monica anymore.
quote:
Originally posted by Barry The Lad:
Debbie is no longer in charge and the tension with Monica is not in any way funny. I wonder is there a sort of 'family value' thing going on. Monica isn't a lesbian any more, Ian isn't as gay as he was and will probably be straight by the end of the series, Mammy and Daddy Gallagher are back together and living with their kids - the Brady Bunch is recreated. The Maguires are just violent like the Mitchells and that isn't humour. There was plenty of room for humour - Jamie could have run off with Ian and a double wedding with Lip and Mandy ... Or better Jamie could have moved in with the new policewoman (who is just agressive not funny so far) Norma could move in with Jess and become the loacl councillor etc... All we have is a Carol sleeping around, Marty with his Tourettes and Frank with his one liners left to make us laugh...
Monica is not supposed to be funny, where did you get that idea? Not every character is supposed to be funny in a comedy drama.
I liked the Ian experimenting storyline and i don't see how it makes him 'less gay' loads of people experiment these days. If you listen to the conversation at the end of that episode between Lip and Ian it really enforces the fact that Ian is not physically attracted to girls and confirms he was merely experimenting. He liked her, and grew close to her and he wanted to be able to love her or at the very least fancy her but he simply didn't, the scene before she drove off said it all.
Ian: You deserve someone who worships you
Anne: Worships? That is gay
Ian: Someone who want's you then
Anne: You want me
Ian: Not enough
I thought it was a really nice story personally and a brilliant episode. If you think it makes him 'less gay' then it says more about you than it does him, thats like a playground attitude. "Oh my god, your leg made contact with his. That makes you 10% gay!!!" "You kissed him that makes you 70% gay!!!"
The simple fact is he isn't attracted to girls and he is attracted to guys, call that what you like, put him in a box, judge him, Catagorise him, mark his 'gayness' out on a scale. The whole episode was making a point against that!
Do you often go around judging people's 'gayness' on a scale like that in real life?
I don't understand your brady bunch comment but it seems obvious you don't like the idea of Monica being back. A bit of a snapshot judgement seeing as we've not actually seen many storylines involving her as an active part of the family yet. I can see why people are uncomfortable with Monica's return, but i don't think she's been given a fair chance yet i mean she only actually officially got back with Frank at the end of episode 3.
Debbie was getting sick of her family calling her weird for being in control of the house and acting alot more mature than others would at her age so she simply decided to show them what she'd be like if she was the other way and funnily enough they never liked it. I think she was making a point to the rest of the family about just how bad so could be if she really wanted to and they should appreciate her for the way she is and stop moaning at her to change who she is cause it's "weird". I think it can be assumed from the way Frank and Lip seemed to care so much that her point got through to them.
You suggested loads of other storylines that will become a possibility in the fifth series, because it'll be alot longer. Where as now they have to condense it all and some characters with great potential don't got the limelight simply because there isn't enough limelight to give them. That will change next year, hopefully you'll keep watching.
quote:
Originally posted by Barry The Lad:
Maybe the Chatsworth estate has given us all it can and like other programmes has just got tired. Sheila was the only one who made me laugh in the first 4 episodes, if Paul Abbott reads this please Paul look at the difference bewteen the earlier series and the present, it would be sad to see a truly good programme like this pulled for lack of humour.
Barry
The Chatsworth Estate has alot more to give, Paul Abbott knows this. That's why he's continuing with it. Why do you think the next series is going to doubled in length? It's not because he needs the money, he's already made for life.
I read people ranting on about the show going downhill and the i really honestly don't see it, personally i've always loved Shameless for the Gallagher's. I love the bond that exists between the kid's, i love the crazy antics of Frank and his random rants about life, the relationship between Ian & Lip, the way Carl is so easily led, Debbie's shrewdness. I love how they all stick by each other through the crazy and funny problems they get in to. That's always been what's attracted me to Shameless, the Gallghers. They're still here and the story of their lives goes on and long may it continue.
Frank, Lip, Ian, Debbie & Carl have always been the real stars of Shameless in my book. If the programmes budget was cut after the first series and we could only afford to keep five of the 'main' cast from then onwards that's who i'd have choosen to keep and i'd bet Paul Abbott would have choosen those five aswell. It's a shame we've lost so many characters, but it's ridiculious to suggest the show should be ended over it when the top dogs are still here.
I'm personally glad fact Steve & Fiona left, it let us see another side of the Gallaghers as they were left to fend for themselves. It opened the show up to really concentrate on the true stars, the Gallagher kids. When people say the feeling of the show has changed i understand what they mean, but too expect a drama series to continue and just stay the same without changing or progressing is incredibly unrealistic. I don't think you understand the true concept of returning television drama if you critize it for changing. Besides, that bond between the family still exists, as proved in the last three episodes.
I'd have like to have kept Kev and Veronica, i'd have loved to have seen them have the kid they longed for which would have opened their characters up to some great potential storylines involving parenting but the actors obviously weren't interested. Quit blaming the writers over that, it's out of their control.
Sheila, the biggest loss of them all for me though, again out of their control not as if they forced her out.
However, we can enjoy storylines involving the Gallaghers, the Maguires and all the other great characters on the estate who don't get enough airtime.
Occasionally you get an episode where the focus switches away from the Gallaghers, i enjoy those episodes aswell. I prefer Gallagher focused episodes, but even when it switches away from them it i still find myself enjoying those episodes. Why? because Shameless is so well written that even it's bit part characters are brilliant. You tune into any other programme on television and all the work goes into the main characters and the rest are just made irrelevant and boring, you don't know much about the bit parters and if it switched away from the main stars it might aswell big a completely different programme. Not with Shameless though, because every character is written exceptionally, every character is memorable no matter how small or big a role they play. It's a true masterpiece, and one that we should be able to enjoy for years to come.
The only other programme i've seen that puts as much effort into bit part characters and make them really stick out is The Simpsons and look at that, arguably the greatest programme in the history of American television and still going strong after 18 years, yet over here people where calling for a massive hit like Shameless to be ended after just TWO. What is it with people in this country when it comes to television??? Why do people turns there backs and stick their noses up at stuff after such a short space of time? It's such a pathetic, stuck up, ignorant, selfish, ungracious and down right idiotic attitude! Funnily enough, i always thought the kind of people that Shameless appealed to where the exact opposite but i suppose we'll see if thats really the case by keeping an eye on the viewing figures.
People who support Shameless continuing really need to start speaking out or the cast & writers will get the false impression that these people are the majority and think that it might be better to just walk away now.
