I didn't see Eng winning in Pakistan or Sri Lanka during their last series over there.

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Originally posted by Rowman:

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Originally posted by Gary_86:

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Originally posted by Dwayne W II:
That Hoggard bowling average is getting up there, almost as high as Blee and Tait in 05. And he's been England's second best bowler

He did trap Hayden plumb LBW three times in two overs in the last match though.

So what. Brett Lee was hard done by in England when it came to LBW decisions. Not to mention that Lee showed more guts in 2005 than what all the English bowlers put together have shown in the current series.
I didn't see Brett Lee take a backward step ever when the pressure was on and losing looked more likely than winning, which is more than I can say for most of the English team this time.

Hoggard carried on bowling and showed plenty of guts and determination. He wasn't downheartened by the plumb LBW being turned down - he went back to the bowling mark and the very next ball produced another delivery that was knocking out off stump but for the intervention of Hayden's pad. Then in the next over he did it again (except this time it was homing in on middle stump).

Brett Lee doesn't lack guts - his batting at Edgbaston showed all you need to know about that. But I think he could be a better bowler if he used his brains more (something that could be said for Harmison as well).

quote:

Originally posted by Honiyan:
I didn't see Eng winning in Pakistan or Sri Lanka during their last series over there.

I didn't see England beat Sri Lanka last time Sri Lanka were in England either.

No we didn't.

And that was in the middle of the English winter where the seamers were meant to play havoc.

But the Pakistanis were cheated by the ICC, racist umpires and the whole establishment in general.

Of course Honey, whatever....

smooch

For those who can bear to look the Combined Batting & Bowling Stats on the Howstat! site has been updated to include the whole of the last Test:

Combined Batting & Bowling Aves Ashes Tour 2006-7 (to 4th Test)

On these stats a combined side would be:

Hussey
Clarke
Ponting
Pietersen
Collingwood
Symonds
Gilchrist
Warne
Clark
Panesar
McGrath

A rather strange top order perhaps but let's see if it stays that way.

Ooo the shame.

quote:

Originally posted by Honiyan:
But the Pakistanis were cheated by the ICC, racist umpires and the whole establishment in general.

Huh? I'm Pakistani and we Pakster fans must accept that our teams shoulders a lot of responsibility for their, at times, dishonourable behaviour. Anyway this thread's about England's sad Ashes 06 performance.

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Originally posted by Gary_86:

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Originally posted by Rowman:

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Originally posted by PeterCS:
Colly's fall away has been a bit disappointing.

I'd still stick with him, though. He has the fight, and went down smashing.


In fact, there are not many I would discard. (Amongst the players.)

Maybe there are those in whom "the rot has set in" for good ... most obvious case might be Harmi. In which case, the first to go.

Generally though (and true even of Saj, though it took him long enough to gather strength and sufficient accuracy), it seems less the players than the leadership that needs trimming, or pensioning off, first.

Oh, and a new captain. I can't see Fred coming back from this and becoming a decent skipper. Still should be good as a top bowler and occasional batsman, though - if his body holds out.

I sort of agree with you with Paul Collingwood however if England do persevere with him I think he should bat at 5 or 6.
I think Freddie should bat at 7.
As far as Harmison is concerned I think he should be given ultimatums and if he walks so be it. Let him go.
Anderson and Mahmood IMO are net bowlers and belong back in county cricket. Mahmood did not pick up late wickets in the Australian innings because of accuracy at all. The situation was Australia had well over a 200 run lead and the tail were going to chase every delivery with a desire for some quick bonus runs.
Englands bowling future IMO belongs with the likes of Broad and whoever else that is floating around the tops of the tables in County cricket.

Mahmood is clearly not ready for Test cricket yet - his performances in the English summer showed this. Maybe given time he will improve, but he should have been nowhere near the starting XI. Anderson hadn't bowled all year because of injury and it was another crazy gamble to put him straight into the starting XI.

Mahmood did all that could have been expected of him as the fifth wheel in the five-man attack.

He ran in hard whenever his captain threw him the ball and he chipped in some wickets.

It seems like he's copping all the flack for the combined failings of the rest of the bowling unit.

If the other four guys, who are all more experienced than him, who are all more lauded, are struggling to make a big contribution, what do you expect from the junior bowler?

Four wicket at a cost of 25 is a decent return.

He wasn't very econimcal - but he's not the only bowler in this series to go at four and over.

Good prospect in my opinion. Probably too green for this tour, but what can you do? What other options are there? Where are the experienced fast bowlers in county cricket?

And how is he going to gain experience and improve as a cricketer at Lancashire - ruiner of such promising young bowlers as James Anderson, Chris Schofield and Kyle Hogg.

If he's going to develop, England are going to have to take a hands-on approach. Which is what they're doing.

Doesn't deserve to be scapegoated for his showing in the last Test, though.

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And how is he going to gain experience and improve as a cricketer at Lancashire - ruiner of such promising young bowlers as James Anderson, Chris Schofield and Kyle Hogg.

I think a lot of Lancashire fans would argue that England are the ones who've ruined their James Anderson.

As for Mahmood, he's taken 4 wickets at 47 and scored 14 runs at 3.5 this series. Nothing there to disprove the argument that although he's fast he has nowhere near enough accuracy for Test cricket at the moment. Maybe in a couple of years he will be a good bowler, he's still improving but at the moment he just isn't ready. His ODI career economy rate of 6.1 (about as high as I can remember) is further proof of this.

The top batting averages for each side make grim reading-rounded up or down.

60-105
56-95
32-89
29-61
29-51
24-43
23-42
11-42

For the 8th best average to be 42 is remarkable.

What did you average in the county game last season, CP?

I had a decent enough season overall but would like to have done more for the team. When i get back from Australia i will be in the gym for a while then the practice sessions will start all over again.

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Originally posted by County Player:
I had a decent enough season overall but would like to have done more for the team. When i get back from Australia i will be in the gym for a while then the practice sessions will start all over again.

Did you average enough so that the team wants you back? lol

I do have a contract for 2007 but have 2 offers on the table for 2008 from other counties so we will have bread and butter for a while Rowman thank you.

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Originally posted by County Player:
I do have a contract for 2007 but have 2 offers on the table for 2008 from other counties so we will have bread and butter for a while Rowman thank you.

I've long wondered how cricketers go about preparation for their life after cricket - the money earned at county level is a far cry from top-flight football. I don't know how old you are, but have you made plans for this? Sorry if it's a bit OT.

Middlesex would be daft enough to sign imaginery county cricketers if you're looking for a contract the year after next.

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Originally posted by County Player:
I do have a contract for 2007 but have 2 offers on the table for 2008 from other counties so we will have bread and butter for a while Rowman thank you.

So your contract is performance based then?

Embers should jump at such an offer.

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Originally posted by Mister Robby:
Embers should jump at such an offer.

Rob.

I see you've got 2 Sunbury boys back at Middlesex!

All you need is James Hewitt for it to be complete.