"Without wishing to make excuses I think that the Australian system is the best," he said. "I don't just mean in the way their domestic cricket is organised - it is the way in which they play their cricket. It is the type of people they are. They are just passionate about being better than anybody else.
"I don't think it is like that in other countries. In South Africa it is a case of not quite wanting to get there because they are not entirely sure whether they should be. Pakistan want to be the best but at the moment they don't have the structure to get them there. At Warwickshire I had a group of people who wanted to get to the top but once they thought they were there they, amazingly, let it go. And that might be the English way. People don't seem to be able to handle success.
"With the current England team there may have been a feeling from within that they had reached their goal when they won the Ashes and now they could walk back down the mountain again, rather than saying, 'let's stay here and build on what we have.' Very few teams manage to keep things going. Manchester United have done it, as have the Australian cricket team.
What is the reason England has so massively underperformed in almost every major world sport? When was the last time an English player won a tennis grand slam? When was the last time England won the football WC, and so on.
For a major country like England, with much diversity and no shortage of resources, and with enough interest in sports, why such poor results?
I doubt England would be able to maintain ten years at the top in the same remorseless manner as Australia.
But this is a moot point, as England haven't reached No. 1. The Ashes is not the be-all and end-all, and every cricketer in England knows this. England wanted to win in Pakistan and India this winter to show they could be No. 1., but for a variety of reasons it didn't work out.
As for the other sports you mention, HJ, I think English 'underperformance' is exaggerated. English sportsmen are usually overhyped, e.g. Tim Henman. When have England actually had a tennis player capable of winning a grand slam? - Tennis is a minority sport in England. When have England actually had the team to win a football world cup? Since 1966, very rarely - maybe this summer as the exception. England did win the rugby world cup as well which is worth remembering.
It's not so much that the English can't handle success just most of the time they cannot achieve it through lack of ability, why that is i'm not sure perhaps cause of the weather, the English just seem more interested in drinking Tea then sporting prowess.
Originally posted by Gary_86: As for the other sports you mention, HJ, I think English 'underperformance' is exaggerated. English sportsmen are usually overhyped, e.g. Tim Henman. When have England actually had a tennis player capable of winning a grand slam? - Tennis is a minority sport in England. When have England actually had the team to win a football world cup?
Yeah, I understand Henman is over hyped and tennis is a minority sport in England - but that is the case in some other countries too which have produced grand slam champions. Certainly football isn't a minority sport.
Even in cricket England should have performed a lot better than they have in the last several decades. The traditional English approach to cricket has been to "play it safe" in contrast to the Aussie approach.
Cricket WC - England has been to the final 3 times and lost every time.
I don't know if Woolmer's theory is correct, but England's not so great performance in sports is something many people have commented upon for a long time now
Even in cricket England should have performed a lot better than they have in the last several decades. The traditional English approach to cricket has been to "play it safe" in contrast to the Aussie approach.
Cricket WC - England has been to the final 3 times and lost every time.
For me, I think the 'Botham factor' has played a big effect in holding back English cricket.
For much of the 80s England lived off past glories, Headingley '81 and all that. The structural problems were glossed over, instead personnel were blamed, the team was chopped and changed rather than get to the root of the problem. I think you're talking '96 before any positive changes were made - it took a few years for the national team to change, Duncan Fletcher has played a big part in this, but England are now very competitive, if still some way short of being the best.
Quite controversial stuff to say, but I have to say I agree with him in general. The thing is that we in England really celebrate success- like we've reached the top of the world. Nothing wrong with that, of course. But with the Aussies it's more 'job done- now let's do it again/stay the best'
Originally posted by Gary_86: for the national team to change, Duncan Fletcher has played a big part in this, but England are now very competitive, if still some way short of being the best.
Indeed they are, and to me, when at full strength, are the most interesting and worth watching teamin world cricket. Even then, they seem to lack self belief, that "win" mentality that the Aussies seem to possess. This recent Lords test was a perfect example of that
I remember a few years ago A Qadir said the same thing about AUS! It's fairly evident in other sports too! Look at someone like L Hewitt, i reckon among the top 15 tennis players he is perhaps the least talented yet he has 2 grand slams and was also the #1 player for 2 consecutive years. This is just 1 of the many examples where an Aussie has overachieved.
Originally posted by Hey Jude...: What is the reason England has so massively underperformed in almost every major world sport? When was the last time an English player won a tennis grand slam? When was the last time England won the football WC, and so on.
For a major country like England, with much diversity and no shortage of resources, and with enough interest in sports, why such poor results?
Woolmer is spot on.
Success is not trusted, because we can't be seen to be trying too hard. As Simon Hughes said "the English don't do this total commitment stuff".
If you look at history the only time the English really start to fight are when our backs are against the wall e.g. Battle of Agincourt, Battle of Britain.
Take a look at many UK schools. It's apparently bad, discriminatory, non-pc, whatever to be better than the other guy in sport because of the adverse effect it has on those who don't do so well. Stooopid.
I agree with what Woolmer says but I think part of the problem is that so many Eng people love to "bag their own" and pre-suppose the worst before it has happened.
I mean you'll be hard pressed to find more than a couple of Eng forummers who believe Eng will win this winters Ashes series. Where as if SJones and Flintoff successfully return from injury as predicted then I could see them forming a demon attack with Harmi that consistently rolls Aus out for less than what Aus can dismiss Eng. If those 2 injured players make it (and all indications are they will) then I still back Eng to win the series by 2 clear tests.
Incidentally I believe the negativism and self-doubt that oozes from the media and fans alike in Eng must have an impact on the sports men and women in this country however much they try and shut it out.
Originally posted by Adelaide Al: Take a look at many UK schools. It's apparently bad, discriminatory, non-pc, whatever to be better than the other guy in sport because of the adverse effect it has on those who don't do so well. Stooopid.
Originally posted by GordoninPortsmouth: Incidentally I believe the negativism and self-doubt that oozes from the media and fans alike in Eng must have an impact on the sports men and women in this country however much they try and shut it out.
And if you do get someone who comes along with uber-confidence and dedication to their sport they never tend to loved by the general public.
Originally posted by Adelaide Al: Take a look at many UK schools. It's apparently bad, discriminatory, non-pc, whatever to be better than the other guy in sport because of the adverse effect it has on those who don't do so well. Stooopid.
I'm not sure in reality UK schools are quite as bad as some of the scare-mongers in the media suggest. School sport will always be about winning and losing like all other sport.
A greater problem is the lack of emphasis on sport in the ciriculum. School playing fields being sold, and performance related pay mean many teachers are driven to concentrate solely on lessons rather than helping out with extra activities such as sport.
Originally posted by GordoninPortsmouth: Incidentally I believe the negativism and self-doubt that oozes from the media and fans alike in Eng must have an impact on the sports men and women in this country however much they try and shut it out.
And if you do get someone who comes along with uber-confidence and dedication to their sport they never tend to loved by the general public.
For example Faldo or Lennox Lewis.
And the reaction of one or two on here to Kevin Pietersen.
All top sportsmen have a touch of arogance in them and it's in the makeup of great sportsmen aslong as it's not OTT it's fine, nothing wrong with a little self confidence imo confidence seperates the good from the great that extra belief along with great talent.
