As far as Tests go, 1st Test Sri Lanka vs England 2003/04 is possibly the last time. Most tests since would have either Hussain, G.Jones, Strauss or Pietersen.
Originally posted by daydreamings: Cheers, Wally. If thats correct then it's not as long ago as I thought.
Quite possible. TMS asked the same question a while back and it wasn't as long ago as some detractors of England like to believe. I'm pretty sure Hussain was mentioned because one of the TMS team forgot Hussain missed a match
How many of those were fit to play for England is a different question
Trescothick - then yes Vaughan - then yes Butcher - then maybe Thorpe - yes Collingwood - now yes, then ? Flintoff - yes Read - *coughs* Batty - LMFAO Giles - in Sri Lanka just about Johnson - maybe Hoggard - yes
Originally posted by Wide Wally: As far as Tests go, 1st Test Sri Lanka vs England 2003/04 is possibly the last time. Most tests since would have either Hussain, G.Jones, Strauss or Pietersen.
Your side includes two players- Giles & Johnson- born in the same town- Chertsey although as they went to different schools outside Chertsey- Giles in Guildford and Johnson in Sunbury there is no sign that they ever played together at any level before appearing for England. I would imagine an all-England XI is a comparatively rare event considering that Lord Harris and Pelham Warner were born in Trinidad and Colin Cowdrey (b.Bangalore) and Ted Dexter (b. Milan) would account for most of England's Test in the 1950s & 1960s.
I have to ask: Does it matter? provided that the players selected meet the qualification criteria in place at the time of their selection - what's the point?
Originally posted by lardbucket: Do Cornwall and Durham really count as England?
Eh? Durham??
And btw Maynard was born in England.
Yep, born in Oldham. Only two Cornish Test cricketers I know of are Jack Crapp and Jack Richards. Harmison was born in Northumberland, not Durham and went to the same school as the Charltons (although a little while later).
I notice the Cricinfo list of non-English players who have played for England omits Allan Watkins presumably on the grounds that he was born in Monmouthshire which they count as England although it is included in the present jurisdiction of the Welsh Assembly. The first Welshman to play for, and also to captain, England was, I think, Cyril Walters but I don't know how manty more Monmouth men have been similarly excluded.
Originally posted by B@sil: We would have done very nicely thank you without Mike Denness.
There wasn't really much choice after Illingworth was given the chop after the final Test in 1973 given that Tony Lewis, Illingworth's primed successor, had been forced to retire. Greig was still too inexperienced, Gifford, Lewis' choice, was dificult to fit into side with Underwood as the first-choice left-armer and Boycott was only a popular choice with himself. Denness did at least draw his initial series in the West Indies- thanks to Boycott and Greig- the best result by an England side there between Cowdrey's tour of 1968 and Vaughan's tour of 2004 and then went on to beat India at home 3-0. It was only against Australia that the wheels came off the wagon- not for the first or last time in the case of an otherwise previously successful England captain.
Originally posted by B@sil: We would have done very nicely thank you without Mike Denness.
There wasn't really much choice after Illingworth was given the chop after the final Test in 1973 given that Tony Lewis, Illingworth's primed successor, had been forced to retire. Greig was still too inexperienced, Gifford, Lewis' choice, was dificult to fit into side with Underwood as the first-choice left-armer and Boycott was only a popular choice with himself. Denness did at least draw his initial series in the West Indies- thanks to Boycott and Greig- the best result by an England side there between Cowdrey's tour of 1968 and Vaughan's tour of 2004 and then went on to beat India at home 3-0. It was only against Australia that the wheels came off the wagon- not for the first or last time in the case of an otherwise previously successful England captain.
I thought I read somewhere that Lewis favoured Colin Cowdrey. Given what happened a year later, it's not so fanciful as it sounds.
Gifford might not have been such a bad choice. He was a bigger spinner of the ball than Underwood, and might have been more succesful on the pitches in the Caribbean.
I remember an interview that Lewis gave where he said that when asked by the selectors whom should replace Illingworth he replied Gifford. Gifford had taken over the Worcestershire captaincy from Tom Graveney at the beginning of 1971 (and had captained in Graveney's absences on Test duty for several seasons before that). Lewis had been impressed with Gifford on his tour of India & Pakistan in 1972-3 where he not only bowled well, particularly in Pakistan, but also took an assistant coaching role. Lewis was also unimpressed by Underwood, whom he thought rather unprofessional, especially after he missed one Test in India through too much sunbathing the day before.
Cowdrey had relinquished the Kent captaincy to Denness at the start of the 1972 season and most thought he would announce his retirement after he had scored his 100th fc 100 which he did in 1973. Cowdrey's poor tour of Australia in 1970-1 in which he was dropped was thought to signal the end of his Test career (although he did play in the 1st Test against Pakistan at Edgbaston in 1971- his last in England- but this was only as a last-minute replacement for the injured Boycott). It was only a remarkable innings in 1974 against Andy Roberts, then playing for Hampshire, that persuaded the selectors to fly him out to Australia as emergency cover for an injury-stricken team the following winter.
Denness was generally regarded as the next choice after Illingworth because he had been vice-captain under Lewis in India & Pakistan where he had performed creditably, if unspectacularly with the bat (just as Brearley did when he was Greig's v-c on the Indian tour of 1976-77). It was thought that Illingworth had deliberately excluded him from all 6 Tests in 1973 (against New Zealand & West Indies) for fear that he might establish a claim to the England captaincy (there is no evidence whom llingworth favoured at the time although I suspect he might have favoured the return of his v-c John Edrich - who had been dropped in 1972 but who was to come back in 1974 and be Denness' v-c on his ill-fated tour of Australia & New Zealand in 1974-5).
However after Illingworth was removed from the England captaincy after England's record inninngs 7 226 run defeat by the Windies at Lord's Denness was given charge of the side in the two ODIs that followed the Tests before a decision was made as to the touring captain for the forthcoming West Indies tour. In the first game at Headingley ngland squeaked a narrow win by 1 wicket in a low scoring match with Denness making 66 and receiving the MoM award and although England went on to lose the second game it is this performance which is widely credited as clinching Denness' appointment as Test captain.
In the first ever Test at the MCG in 1877 only 5 of the Australian XI were Ozzie-born (Blackham, Garrett, both Gregorys and Hodges). 4 (Bannerman, Kendall, Midwinter & Thompson) were born in England, 1 (Horan) was born in Ireland and 1 (Bransby Cooper) was born in India. It must have been a considerable time before Australia fielded a native-born XI for the first time.
