Probably Michael Atherton, had it not been for the back injury which plagued most of his carreer.
Despite his problems, he was towards the very top of "just short of great" players IMHO.
** Did you ever have a secret yearning - Dont you know it could come true Now's the time to set wheels turning - Open up your life for you If you take life as a crazy gamble - Throw the dice & take your chance You will see it from a different angle - And you too will join the dance **
Graeme Hick should have been great. In county/first class terms, he's certainly among the greats given his record, but sadly at Test level his record can be described as mediocre at best.
Had he been born 10 years later - and come into a winning England side and an era of poor fast bowling - the chances are he would have been.
Never seen him bowl but Vince Van Der Bijl was supposed to be pretty much the equivalent of Big Bird - but couldn't play Tests coz of South Africa's ban. Reading about him from his contemporaries, was awesome apparently.
Collie Smith was supposed to be almost as decent as Sobers in some respects but hadn't got the most out of his talent going on the tonk alot. Was improving when Sobers crashed the car and he died.
Most of that 82-83 tour to apartheid South Africa could've done a lot, lot more were it not for that and the strength of the West Indian teams at the time...
I think maybe Tony Gray benefited from being selected in a strong team. When you are playing with bowlers like Marshall, Garner and Walsh then the opposition are often 100 for 6 when you come on to bowl anyway. e.g. The star batsman that could have got a hundred and bashed you everywhere and spoiled your figures has already had his fingers broken by Malcolm Marshall.
As well as Tony Gray there's Colin Croft, Sylvester Clarke and Wayne Daniel who have bowling averages in the low-to-mid 20's and benefited from strong support - despite the fact for most of their career they were not first choice. An embarrassment of riches. Who knows, maybe they were all greats - no team needs more than 3 or 4 great bowlers.
But I would reckon Tony Gray was no better than the very competent but not great bowlers like Patrick Patterson and Winston Benjamin - the West Indian selectors of the time certainly thought so.
Roy Gilchrist - if he'd been able to control that temper.
Abdul Qadir - maybe for some he is a great, but his bowling average is higher than Alan Mullally's. Though some maintain he could be more with a cricket ball than even Shane Warne. A victim of being the only quality spinner in an era of fast bowling?
Angus Fraser - as accurate as they come and would bowl all day for you. Recurring injuries and inconsistent selection mean he was probably only very good, not great.
That said, there are lots of fast bowlers where you think if only he could have stayed fit... Ian Bishop, Bruce Reid, etc.
Carl Hooper - the only man to score 5,000 runs, take 100 wickets and 100 catches in both Tests and ODI's but the feeling is he still under-achieved, especially with the bat.
Robin Smith - dropped at an age when he should have had much more to give. But his batting average loses nothing in comparison to the more celebrated Gooch and Gower. His 4,000+ test runs at 44 were mainly made against the West Indies and Australia (who he played half his Tests against). So in that era that would mean either against an attack like Marshall / Ambrose / Walsh and Bishop or McDermott / Reid / Hughes and latterly Warne.
Originally posted by Gary_86: But I would reckon Tony Gray was no better than the very competent but not great bowlers like Patrick Patterson and Winston Benjamin - the West Indian selectors of the time certainly thought so.
Spot on. Saw Tony Gray a few times in county cricket
Not in the Holding/Garner class but like Patterson & Benjamins, a cut above the current crop
You sure about Gray? His first class record is outstanding and his ODI record is also unbelievable. Second best strike rate ever in ODIs. If he couldn't have been an all time Test great, then he must have been capable of all time ODI greatness.
Cricinfo says:
"His 6ft 6ins allowed Gray to generate disconcerting bounce, which allied to genuine pace made him a fearsome proposition".
He sounds a bit like the player Harmison could be.
Carl Hooper - the only man to score 5,000 runs, take 100 wickets and 100 catches in both Tests and ODI's but the feeling is he still under-achieved, especially with the bat.
That can't be right can it? Steve Waugh, Viv Richards and Jacques Kallis all come to mind.
Carl Hooper - the only man to score 5,000 runs, take 100 wickets and 100 catches in both Tests and ODI's but the feeling is he still under-achieved, especially with the bat.
That can't be right can it? Steve Waugh, Viv Richards and Jacques Kallis all come to mind.
They're all one short of the full 6. Waugh only managed 92 Test wickets, and Viv Richards just 32. Kallis will probably join Hooper's club soon - he needs just 2 more ODI catches.
You sure about Gray? His first class record is outstanding and his ODI record is also unbelievable. Second best strike rate ever in ODIs. If he couldn't have been an all time Test great, then he must have been capable of all time ODI greatness.
Cricinfo says:
"His 6ft 6ins allowed Gray to generate disconcerting bounce, which allied to genuine pace made him a fearsome proposition".
He sounds a bit like the player Harmison could be.
Well, he was a bit before my time so I can't say I saw him first hand. Looking at Youtube he seems very typically West Indian - incredibly tall, open chested, wide of the crease. It is very difficult to differentiate between him, Walsh and Garner in the clips. So he must have been a formidable opponent. I wish the Windies had a few bowlers of his ilk now - it would have made it much more entertaining rather than watching Fidel Edwards and John Barnes' less talented younger brother trying to bowl England out on their own.
Maybe he should have played more ODI cricket - it wasn't taken as seriously then. Teams tended to be selected from the Test squad.
Awesome figures but there is a small sample size allied with my theory that having all those great bowlers around to make sure no batsmen will ever really get on top of you. Also he played a lot of that first class cricket at The Oval - the quickest pitch in England at the time and the treacherous Port-Of-Spain track.
hmmn...thought about kimbo and bnlg as potential greats but figured that they like koala jnr, elliot, lewis and chris matthews (and anyone with that surname) lacked the talent in the first place
