If Flintoff could remain injury free for a prolonged and not be too distracted by batting and the FFSing captaincy he could be a heck of a bowler. When not at bowling at full pace he can be pretty mediocre.
Flintoff is not destructive enough to be classed a great bowler. He very rarely runs through batting sides (unlike other great allrounders Botham/Imran/Hadlee, not to mention the likes of Marshall/Ambrose/McGrath), and the number of 5W hauls he has taken is testament to this. I know he bowls as part of a 5 man attack, but even when the other bowlers have been found wanting, he is not that destructive.
Having said that he is one of the better bowlers around today and is certainly not bowling to his full potential in Australia. Injury and the burden of captaincy seem to have contributed to this.
Hoggy is a better bowler than Flintoff. Stats don't lie. End of story.
He also has to worry about captaining a team that is down in the dumps, batting at number 6, and he's got a dodgy ankle that really hurts every time he plants his front foot down. All things considered I think he's bowled ok in this series.
If this wasnt the Ashes he wouldnt have played in the last 2 Tests.
At least Flintoff didn't bail out like Tres did, in the hour of need. I reckon Pommies won the last Ashes sheerly on the brilliance of Flintoff and Peiterson. They made all the difference between the two sides.
I reckon Pommies won the last Ashes sheerly on the brilliance of Flintoff and Peiterson
Why would an Indian call the English 'Pommies'?
Add Simon Jones, Vaughan, Trescothick, Strauss, and Hoggard to your list of people who helped win England the Ashes last year. God, how long ago does that seem.
The commentators were essentially tearing his captaincy to shreds today. I agree that Flintoff is actually better off not being captain and batting at 7. If he does this you'll see his best bowling.
Its exactly the same as when Botham was made Captain back in the early 80's. Take your best, most charismatic, talismatic, talented, hardest working cricketer, saddle him with the Captaincy, and watch his performances drop, and his enjoyment for the game dim.
Hopefully by now England have finally learnt. Actually dont count on it.
Tresco had very important role to play in Eng's last year Ashes triumphs. More often than not he gave Eng some blazing starts, which caught Aussies completely off guard. And as far as I remember, he was Eng's highest scorer in that series.
Originally posted by please: flintoff for my money is an average skipper but a solid number 7 and more than handy first change bowler.
england's problem is that he's batting at 6 he's the skipper and he's having to open the bowling.
I think you are on the money. In the first 4 Tests on this tour Steve Harmison has managed only 8 wickets @ 65.12 There is the reason Freddie has been opening the bowling. What are England going to do about Harmison?
Here are some of Englands batting averages on the Ashes tour to date.
A J Strauss 24.55 I R Bell 29 A N Cook 31.5 A Flintoff 22.5 G O Jones 10.5 A F Giles 24.66
England can't afford to have Freddie batting at 6 with batting averages like these in the top order. Even Paul Collingwoods average of 55.57 is misleading if consistency is what one is looking for. Collingwood has 389 runs after 8 innings which includes one knock of 206.
Originally posted by Vikas B. Forever: At least Flintoff didn't bail out like Tres did, in the hour of need. I reckon Pommies won the last Ashes sheerly on the brilliance of Flintoff and Peiterson. They made all the difference between the two sides.
Trescothick has genuine problems.He did not bail out.
Bat at #7 and do a lot of bowling in a four-man attack
Cut down on the bowling and bat at #6 in a four-man attack.
If we could get SiJo back or a credible fourth quick, I would suggest the latter option, especially considering how Fred is bowling through pain most days.
Originally posted by Mister Robby: I don't respect the use of "pommies" by an Asian. We don't tolerate racist abuse of Asians in the UK.
'Pommies' is not racist.
It's not exactly pleasant either and feels uncomfortable to me when deliver by a non-Australian. I wouldn't use words some Australians use for Indians such as "subis". What country is Vikas from, out of interest?
