Think it's very sad indeed that England are putting this sort of burden on Flintoff. Mind you he'll probably be next Vaughan- in so much as he'll be perpetually injured before long.
I think people were a little harsh on flintoff, england would have won the series pretty easily had they been able to catch in the first test.
Nothing a skipper can do about so many drops in one game, added to that from everything he said flintoff saw himself as just keeping the seat warm for vaughan, now that vaughan's career is all but over(can't see anybody coming back from a 4th serious knee op) flintoff should be able to impose his will on the team
Originally posted by shakes: I think people were a little harsh on flintoff, england would have won the series pretty easily had they been able to catch in the first test.
Nothing a skipper can do about so many drops in one game, added to that from everything he said flintoff saw himself as just keeping the seat warm for vaughan, now that vaughan's career is all but over(can't see anybody coming back from a 4th serious knee op) flintoff should be able to impose his will on the team
I think most of our problems with Fred's captaincy is that he really overworks himself - which gets him injured and at the same time underbowls the spinner and wily, cunning stock swing bowler. A glaringly bad way to start the captaincy role.
Deja Vu for me. Fast re-wind 20 years to Bothams diabolical run as captain ....
Great all rounder - cr@p skipper - wanted to do too much all by himself, disregarded team mates' advice and inevitably paid the price.
I don't see Flintoff being any different (character-wise very similar to Both) so feel he should be spared (both injury and stress) by letting Strauss take over permanently as skipper.
Originally posted by Mang The Merciless: I think most of our problems with Fred's captaincy is that he really overworks himself - which gets him injured
Yeah. No good to us as player or skipper if he can't get on the park.
Originally posted by merlin: Deja Vu for me. Fast re-wind 20 years to Bothams diabolical run as captain ....
Great all rounder - cr@p skipper - wanted to do too much all by himself, disregarded team mates' advice and inevitably paid the price.
I don't see Flintoff being any different (character-wise very similar to Both) so feel he should be spared (both injury and stress) by letting Strauss take over permanently as skipper.
It was Botham's bad luck to come up agaist the West Indies in 10 of his 13 tests as skipper. I sometimes wonder how Mike Brearley would have fared against them.
Originally posted by B@sil: It was Botham's bad luck to come up agaist the West Indies in 10 of his 13 tests as skipper. I sometimes wonder how Mike Brearley would have fared against them.
Smart man, Brears. Retired before those ten Windies tests, then came back to beat the feeble-batted 1981 Aussies in three of four tests.
quote:
Originally posted by tailender: Flntosser seems a decent enough bloke - quite unlike the loud-mouthed 'I am' Beefy. Though as captains you may be right with that comparison.
Both of them are simple, uncluttered thinkers, though Fred seems to have more humility.
Strauss will be the third South African-born player to skipper the team in a Test following Tony Greig (14 Tests between 1975 and 1977) and Allan Lamb (three Tests between 1989 and 1991)...
So are they grooming KP for the job in the future?
No other choice really is there? Flintoff has been quite impressive everytime he has captained the side. Whilst the jury is out whether Strauss is any good at it. I think Flintoff wont be over-bowling himself if he returns, he's probably learned his lesson and is still learning (about captaincy) all the time.
I dont think he was that bad in the SL test series. Eng really should have won 2-1 if they knew how to catch. I guess he was accused of letting things drift at certain times during the series?
So you would rather have the unproven Strauss to permanently lead the English side?
I don't see Flintoff being any different (character-wise very similar to Both) ...
Ouch! Flntosser seems a decent enough bloke - quite unlike the loud-mouthed 'I am' Beefy. Though as captains you may be right with that comparison.
Granted, Botham milked the "abrasive/loud mouthed" character tag in later years towards his retirement, before it finally took him over!
During his prime however, he was not unlike Fred is now... always wanting to be in the mix, never letting go of the ball, always offering advice....positive body language. ie., overdoing it to a great extent and thus tending to lose sight of the objective. More importantly, both were/are respected by the baggy greens for their cricketing ability.
But you are right, comparing the two, Flitoff is a 'decent' lad off field, a home loving family man. Botham however, enjoyed the bright lights and attention ... mind you, he did have maniacs like Lamb, Gatting, and Gower together with a lax management regime to cause him to be led astray!
The bowling changes and fielding positions can virtually be decided by Fletcher at each session or drinks break ...
The captains job therefore is really to motivate his players into giving that bit extra ....Is Fred a self motivator or does he respond best to someone urging him on ?...
Originally posted by Norfolk Nadia: The bowling changes and fielding positions can virtually be decided by Fletcher at each session or drinks break ...
The captains job therefore is really to motivate his players into giving that bit extra ....Is Fred a self motivator or does he respond best to someone urging him on ?...
Not that easy, Nads ... a shed load happens and changes within a 2 hour playing session .... and pee-breaks for a chat with Fletch to 're-figure strategy' every so often, ain't gonna go down too well Down Under.
Motivation also has it's limitations ... when, as a bowler, you are being hammered around through a bad spell - motivating others comes bloody hard may sound (though not meant) rather hypocritical!
Originally posted by merlin: .... and pee-breaks for a chat with Fletch to 're-figure strategy' every so often, ain't gonna go down too well Down Under.
I think CA are organising fence-side Portaloos at every ground.
Have to take care of our visitors, after all, and they all seem to have bladder problems . . .
So what's the likely team for the 1st Test v Pakistan? Will they call up another allrounder like Rikki Clarke, or play an extra batsman and have Collingwood bowl more overs?
I have a sneaking suspicion they'll recall Ian Bell, as he can also bowl a few overs and batted ok in the ODIs.
I think it'll be:
Trescothick Strauss* Cook Pietersen Bell Collingwood Jones+ Plunkett Harmison Mahmood or Lewis Panesar
