Particluarly the Aussies.

Cos the counties pay the best of the Aussies and Saffies come and play for them, perchance?

quote:

Originally posted by Mrs Vaughan:
Cos the counties pay the best of the Aussies and Saffies come and play for them, perchance?

...and Joe Dawes....

...ah, how could I forget Joe????

quote:

...and Joe Dawes....

Oi! ..... Big Joe topped the Middlesex bowling averages in the season he played for them.

because the english are not very good

Because the Aussies and SA's arn't playing any test matches at the moment.

Nor are the Lankans or Indians or Windians - but you don't see them in any great numbers?

Yorkshire - when was the last time they had a non-Aussie overseas player?

I particularly think that the vast number of "overseas" players are those that are past their sell by date - don't even play for their countries on a regular basis - so the notion that counties in England need them to bring in people through the gates or improve the overall playing performance is one that has been lost 5+ years ago - I feel sorry for the English youngsters who will have to sit out.

Ahh well - Englands loss

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel_:
because the english are not very good

Maybe they should go to Canada then.

quote:

Originally posted by JayPatel:

Yorkshire - when was the last time they had a non-Aussie overseas player?

Well not including the bucketloads of Saffies, (there's three of them playing today), it would be Yuvraj Singh I think - who was a complete disaster. For most of the past few years we've had Lehmann who has been brilliant and has usually had influence in persuading other Aussies like Gillespie and Jacques to play in recent years.

Not sure if its the same in county cricket, but in club cricket having an Aussie pro is seen as safer as there are less cultural differences so they are more likely to fit in and usually they have a high level of professionalism, while Asian / West Indian pro's are more of a 'lucky dip' you never quite know what you're going to get until they arrive.

quote:

Aussie pro is seen as safer as there are less cultural differences

more so then home grown Asians with yorkie accents who dominate the local Yorkshire leagues. I have real issues with Yorkshire - for a county which has probably one of the biggest bases of Asian talent - it does very little to promote them through - at least Lancs are out of the dark ages and doing well.

quote:

Originally posted by JayPatel:

quote:

Aussie pro is seen as safer as there are less cultural differences

more so then home grown Asians with yorkie accents who dominate the local Yorkshire leagues. I have real issues with Yorkshire - for a county which has probably one of the biggest bases of Asian talent - it does very little to promote them through - at least Lancs are out of the dark ages and doing well.

How can a 'home grown Asian' be considered an overseas player. I'm talking about players travelling from overseas.

He means that they are choosing overseas players at the expense of the home grown Asians, I think.

quote:

How can a 'home grown Asian' be considered an overseas player. I'm talking about players travelling from overseas.

Yes and my argument is that an Aussie or Saffie will do less to allow Asians to participate in Yorkshire then say an Asian overseas player.

The only two Asians that have represented Yorkshire are Tendulkar and Yuvraj - I think they should have taken a Pakistani player instead - namely because the overwhelming majority of Asians in Yorkshire are of this decent.

It is proven that they will join the county club - you only had to look at the increase in membership for Notts when they signed up Shoiab.

The only ones in English cricket that can get Yorkshire to get its asians involved more so with the club are Yorkshire CCC and their members. I currently don't see that desire and if you state that they select players because of "cultural uniformity" it paints a further bleak picture.

But the overseas player is only one of eleven players, and usually much better than most of the other ten (a lot of league teams are totally reliant on their overseas pro - btw a lot of these are Indian or from other Asian countries as well as the Australian contingent).

There is a very strong Asian presence in league cricket in Yorkshire.

quote:

Originally posted by JayPatel:

quote:

How can a 'home grown Asian' be considered an overseas player. I'm talking about players travelling from overseas.

Yes and my argument is that an Aussie or Saffie will do less to allow Asians to participate in Yorkshire then say an Asian overseas player.

The only two Asians that have represented Yorkshire are Tendulkar and Yuvraj - I think they should have taken a Pakistani player instead - namely because the overwhelming majority of Asians in Yorkshire are of this decent.

It is proven that they will join the county club - you only had to look at the increase in membership for Notts when they signed up Shoiab.

The only ones in English cricket that can get Yorkshire to get its asians involved more so with the club are Yorkshire CCC and their members. I currently don't see that desire and if you state that they select players because of "cultural uniformity" it paints a further bleak picture.

This is getting dangerously close to the quota discussion earlier on SA cricket. I don't see why Yorkshire need persue a strategy of positive discrimination. Surely all any club should try to do is pick the best young players, regardless of colour.

Why should Yorkshire ditch Lehmann, surely the best performing overseas player of the past 10 years for some Pakistani player (who will be outside of the National squad, otherwise unavailable) and unlikely to get anywhere near the same amount of runs.

The "cultural uniformity" you were talking about refers back to my original point about club cricket. I'll try and explain it again.

A lot of Australians love to go travelling around the world, back-packing, etc. it seems to be part of their national identity. Being a club pro isn't very luxurious, you earn a bit of money, though often not enough to live off. Get a flat or a spare room somewhere as accomodation and fixed up with a job - again not a very glamarous one.

Faced with six months away from home on the other side of the world you need to have that kind of back-packer mentality I guess to try new experiences. That and the unrivalled quality of Australian domestic and league cricket would explain why a lot of Australians come over.

Maybe factors such as language difficulties, stronger family responsibilities, less desire to travel which contribute to less Asian players travelling across to England at club level also is present at County level? Maybe less Asian players make themselves available to play County Cricket than Australians?

I don't blame counties for eploying so many Aussies and Kolpaks because they easily outperform English players. A county will only seek to employ the best just like any business.

why would english county players want to go to canada, hilda?

quote:

Originally posted by Nigel_:
because the english are not very good

So, maybe they would learn to play if they went to Canada, which is superior in every way.
Are you always this thick?

quote:

This is getting dangerously close to the quota discussion earlier on SA cricket. I don't see why Yorkshire need persue a strategy of positive discrimination. Surely all any club should try to do is pick the best young players, regardless of colour.

I disagree Gary. It is on the onus of each and every county that they ensure that they talent scout the best in their admnistration zone and nearby. This doesn't mean deploying a quota based system - I dead against such "positive" moves. However I need to appreciate that counties are doing what they can in today's climate of ensuring that within sport all cultures feel included.

I meet Asians from the north and the story is still the same as it was 15 years + ago - they see that there is little involvement.

I again ask the question why in Northamptonshire - they currently have 2 non overseas Asians and an overseas Asian playing - and the Northamptonshire "district" does not have the same numbers of Asians as Yourkshire does.

Looking at the two players in Northants - they look ( and this is nieve ) on opposite sides. I can't see Bilal going out on the razz or getting involved in this so called "club culture" - Afzaal yes.

Don't take it the wrong way but I always feel very uncomfortable about this subject when it comes to Yorkshire - because I just have not seen Yorkshire put in the same effort as other counties. One of the best ways to look at this is to find any YCCC member and let us know how many Asians it has in its membership - more so how many players in their junior teams and acadamies.

And gary - its not just Asians - the Afro/Caribbean community have been strong in Yorkshire as well - why no representation?

quote:

Originally posted by JayPatel:
And gary - its not just Asians - the Afro/Caribbean community have been strong in Yorkshire as well - why no representation?

I'm not really qualified to talk about Yorkshire CC's selection policies, if they were fair or not i can't really say.

But I had a look at the National Statistics website, which says for 2001 Yorkshire's non-white population was 8.3% (lower than the UK's average of 13%), of this the highest proportion was Pakistani (2.9%).

The current Yorkshire squad has 25 players, of these 2 are of Asian descent - Adil Rashid & Ajmal Shazhad. This would be a roughly representative 8% of the squad. Though this isn't strictly true as with overseas players and other Kolpak players and others taken from outside Yorkshire, the number of Yorkshire born players is only 17. So out of 17 Yorkshire born players, 2 (that's 11.8%) are of Asian descent.

I couldn't find any figures for Afro / Caribbean population, but i'm guessing its only a very small proportion, probably >2%.

quote:

Originally posted by JayPatel:

quote:

Aussie pro is seen as safer as there are less cultural differences

more so then home grown Asians with yorkie accents who dominate the local Yorkshire leagues. I have real issues with Yorkshire - for a county which has probably one of the biggest bases of Asian talent - it does very little to promote them through - at least Lancs are out of the dark ages and doing well.

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/yorkshire/content/current/player/244497.html

He's not a Yorkshire borm Asian then?

Twit.

quote:

positive discrimination

One of those ridiculous terms that sound like official criteria actually set down a couple of years ago for selection of schools rugby teams: "Two South African schools teams will be chosen, namely an Academy Team and a South African Schools team chosen on merit. The Academy team will contain a minimum of seven players of colour, while the team chosen on merit will contain a minimum of four players of colour."

South African rugby is reaping the benefits...