Sigh. I can't quite believe anyone could read everything I've posted on this thread and then interpret that post like that.

As in every other post on this thread, it is when Stewart opened and didn't keep wicket. .

Look here.

If I need to post this again in words of one syllable, please, let me know.

quote:

I can't quite believe anyone could read everything I've posted on this thread and then interpret that post like that.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

quote:

Originally posted by Leo:
Sigh. I can't quite believe anyone could read everything I've posted on this thread and then interpret that post like that.

As in every other post on this thread, it is when Stewart opened and didn't keep wicket. .

Look here.

If I need to post this again in words of one syllable, please, let me know.

Unlike some people, you smug patronising pillock, I don't have time to read every post in a 120-post thread.

Anyway, last great English batsman - beyond debate: Ken Barrington.

Kevin Pietersen,

Does KP count as English? Anyway, slightly premature as yet. Postwar list of "great" English batsmen runs as follows (in chronological order):

L.Hutton
D.C.S.Compton
P.B.H. May
T.W.Graveney
M.C.Cowdrey
E.R.Dexter
K.F.Barrington
G.Boycott
D.I.Gower
G.A.Gooch

The following played "great" innings without deserving the title for their overall career:

A.P.E.Knott
A.W.Greig
I.T.Botham
A.J.Lamb
R.A.Smith

PS: Addenda to second list:
D.L.Amiss
G.P.Thorpe

Edrich?

Not forgetting (!):

A.J.Stewart (esp.Bridgetown Oval, 1994)

Randall & Atherton played great innings too ...surely

quote:

Originally posted by lardbucket:
Edrich?

W.J. or J.H.?

W.J., yes, J.H., occasional "great" innings category although the Wozzies of the Ian Chappell era thought more highly of him than they did of "Fiery" but then that was probably because he didn't answer back when they sledged him.

quote:

Originally posted by Commrade Punts:
Randall & Atherton played great innings too ...surely

One each- Randall at MCG in 1977, Atherton at Jo'burg in 1996.

I was referring to John.

He did make a triple century against the mightly NZ.

quote:

Originally posted by Commrade Punts:
Randall & Atherton played great innings too ...surely

...and surely fletcher, crawley and hick would make the idiosynchratic english view of greatness

quote:

Originally posted by lardbucket:
I was referring to John.

He did make a triple century against the mightly NZ.

Against the fearsome attack of Motz, Taylor, Collinge & Yuile on a pitch so flat that, to adapt a catchphrase of GB, "my mum could have made those runs". I was thinking more of his first and last Test hundreds, 120 & 175 both made against the Aussies at Lord's and his 146 at Bridgetown in 1968. An outstanding player, I agree, but not quite as good as ir Geoffrey or his cousin Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by beepbeep:
...and surely fletcher, crawley and hick would make the idiosynchratic english view of greatness

Errr...no.

tongue in cheek, Allan. Edrich was a good, sound, toiler. I thought my 'might of NZ' quote might have alerted you to the seriousness of my post.

where does one draw the line though?

I don't think you can achieve it with a single defiant match-saving knock (which Atherton and Fletcher certainly achieved); a blazing innings or two (like those of Barber or Milburn); or a few brave innings played despite injury (Luckhurst etc)? For true greatness I like to see adaptability ... the ability to play innings in each of these styles ... or sustained, repeated brilliance. Of the Englishmen you have mentioned, only Gower appeals from the last twenty years or so. That is a purely personal judgment.

I do agree with embee's mentioning of Randall's singular great innings.

d'Oliveira must be worth a mention at a similar level to Amiss, Thorpe, Gatting, and some others suggested earlier.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan D:
Does KP count as English? Anyway, slightly premature as yet. Postwar list of "great" English batsmen runs as follows (in chronological order):
L.Hutton
D.C.S.Compton
P.B.H. May
T.W.Graveney
M.C.Cowdrey
E.R.Dexter
K.F.Barrington
G.Boycott
D.I.Gower
G.A.Gooch

Pretty solid list which is hard to disagree with. Graveney and Dexter are borderline, the others make the grade (See my list on bottom of page 1 of this thread).

Only Barrington, Compton and Hutton get a capital 'G' Great but May is not far short.

Only 1 (possibly 2) All-Time Great English batsman has started his FC career in the last 69 years - not good.

quote:

The following played "great" innings without deserving the title for their overall career:

A.P.E.Knott
A.W.Greig
I.T.Botham
A.J.Lamb
R.A.Smith

Knott and Botham are cetainly Great cricketers without being great batsmen.

Whilst I agree with most of the above arguments I can't see how you can disagree with the fact that, despite a very shaky start and the occasional blip when a perceived weakness was exploited (such as the 1989 Australian series), the last great English batsman who scored runs in all conditions against all attacks, including the very best, and played the occasional "great" innings (such as Headingley 1991) which was able to turn the course of a match, was undoubtedly Graham Gooch. Whilst not being naturally a great player in the Compton, Dexter or Gower mould, like Boycott he made himself into a great batsman by dint of effort and hard work.

"Some are born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them."

"Twelfth Night", Act II, Sc. V.