Forget Lara vs Tendulkar. Look at this stats...

tell me wat u think....

these are the stats from cricinfo

.........................Mat..Runs..HS.....BatAv..100..50
Ricky Ponting.........105..8792..257....58.22..31...34
Sachin Tendulkar.....132..10469..248...55.39..35...41

obviously from this it can be said that ......with ponting playing less matches he has:

1. better high score
2. better average
3. better rate of turing 50's into 100's
4. with playing 27 matches less that sachin he is only 4 100's behind

also the next table is a comparison of ricky and sachin in first innings:

1st innings...........Mat....Runs....HS....BatAv...100...50
ricky ponting........105....6338....257...62.75...25....24
sachin tendulkar....132....7464....248...60.68...26....28

from this is can also be said about ricky ponting that:

1. he has a higher average then sachin
2. 1 less hundred then sachin but has played 27 less matches
3. converts more of his 50's into hundreds
4. has a better high score

so far this proves that ricky is far a beter player then sachin, but just to make sure, lets take a comparison of ricky and sachin in the second innnings:

2nd innings............Mat....Runs....HS....BatAv...100...50
Ricky Ponting..........103....2454....156...49.08....6....10
Sachin Tendulkar......119....3005....176...45.53....9....13

from the above table it can be said about ricky ponting that:

1. he has a much better average then sachin tendulkar in the 2nd innings
2. with 16 matches played without batting in the second innings, ricky is only 3 100's behind tendulkar...meaning that ponting is better statistically


Bah!

Sach is no match for Punter in the Sooking stakes. Inzi gives him a good run for his money there though

quote:

Originally posted by doctorspin:
Sach is no match for Punter in the Sooking stakes. Inzi gives him a good run for his money there though

SRT is also more pleasing on the eye than Punter!!!!

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How old is Ponting? like 31? he's still got plenty of tests ahead of him he surely will get his hands on most tons record at some point, he was incredible after the Ashes last year.

People talk about Mike Hussey this and Monty Panesar that but Ponting if anyone will be the difference between the teams this winter.

Tendulkar is a better captain than Ponting: but then again so is Vaughan, Flintoff, Dravid, Lara, Smith, Fleming, Inzi, Solanki, Adams, Chilton, Warne, Streak, Key, Welch, Taibu, Hick, Ramprakash, Gough, Sajid Mahmood, Blackwell, Dalrymple, the driver of the number 31 bus, Batty, Kabir Ali, Mattie Hayden, Kirtley, Lewry, Croft, White, Lehmann, Harmison, Hoggard, Panesar, Read, Bell, Collingwood.........

You could have saved a bit of time if you'd just given us a list of worse captains than Ponting.

Here we go...erm...erm....Kermit?

quote:

People talk about Mike Hussey this and Monty Panesar that but Ponting if anyone will be the difference between the teams this winter

Ponting is probably the best batsman in the world currently.

But he is not infallible, especially against good fingerspin (Freddy didn't do too badly against him either).

I genuinely think Monty may become his bogeyman

Statistically, Ponting does look superior to Tendulkar.

However, a fairer comparison Avaya would be to look at Sachin Tendulkar after 105 Tests and compare that record with Pontings.


Would also point out that Tendulkar and Lara and batsmen who played a lot in the 1990's played in an earlier era with less attacking batsmanship on display.

Also, Ponting never batted against his own attack, and almost invariably played second innings with his side having a first innings lead. Ponting also played first innings in which his side invariably bowled the opposition out cheaply.

Pontings amazing run in the past 18-24 months has been quite a remarkable runs scoring feat however..... he is clearly in his prime as a Test batsman.

For example, if we look at Ponting and Tendulkar at 100 Test Matches:

Tendulkar:

unfiltered           132  211  22 10469 248* 241* 217   55.39  35  41  12
filtered             100  160  15  8405 217  201* 193   57.96  30  34  10  

1st match innings     47   47   2  3311 217  201* 193   73.57  12  11   2
2nd match innings     52   51   1  2801 176  169  148*  56.02  10  14   4
3rd match innings     32   32   4  1524 155* 126* 124*  54.42   6   7   2
4th match innings     36   30   8   769 136  119*  86   34.95   2   2   2  

Ponting:

unfiltered           105  175  24  8792 257  242  207   58.22  31  34   8
filtered             100  166  23  8253 257  242  207   57.71  28  32   8  

1st match innings     51   51   3  3331 242  206  157*  69.39  14  13   1
2nd match innings     49   49   1  2723 257  207  197   56.72  10   9   3
3rd match innings     40   38   7  1255 104*  98   73*  40.48   1   7   1
4th match innings     37   28  12   944 156  143* 100*  59.00   3   3   3  

Tendulkar has a superior statistical record, inspite of playing for a significantly weaker cricket team (always facing huge opposition totals, India has had the most generous bowling attack in the world in the last decade), and probably facing superior bowling over his first 100 Tests as compared to Ponting.

In addition, Tendulkar played his 100 Tests in 13 years, inspite of missing only 3 Tests played by India in this period, while Ponting completed his 100 Tests in about 10 years. Ponting also played 57 of his 100 Tests at home, Tendulkar played only 42 of his first 100 Tests at home.


Today, Ponting is probably the best player in the world, but the claim doesn't stand over their entire careers in my opinion.

quote:

However, a fairer comparison Avaya would be to look at Sachin Tendulkar after 105 Tests and compare that record with Pontings

Surely when somebody has played as many Tests as these two have the need to do this kind of comparison is gone. It's not like Ponting has played 40 Tests and is being classed as better than Tendulkar.

quote:

Originally posted by Captain Charisma:

quote:

However, a fairer comparison Avaya would be to look at Sachin Tendulkar after 105 Tests and compare that record with Pontings

Surely when somebody has played as many Tests as these two have the need to do this kind of comparison is gone. It's not like Ponting has played 40 Tests and is being classed as better than Tendulkar.

No.... but if you agree that both players have played lots of cricket, then you have to look at

1. What stage of their careers each is in
2. How they have performed over the whole span of time.

Measuring stats at 132 and 105 respectively is a mere snapshot in time. Would 107 and 75 Tests be a snapshot of lesser value (if their relative quality over their careers is to be determined)? At 107 Tests Tendulakr average about 57 while Ponting was yet to have his phenomenal 30 Test test run where hes averaged about 75-78.

Theres a huge difference between playing for 10 years and playing for 17.

For now I rate SRT higher than Ponting! Even in year 2000 when we had many high class bowlers in the world Sachin who had been playing cricket for 11 years was able to maintain an average of over 55! Over the past few years he has suffered from numerous injuries hence his form hasn't been great but IMO if Sachin had made his debut in say 1995/96 his current average would have been around 63. Having said if Ponting is able to maintain his form for the next 2 or 3 years then i might put Ricardo ahead of the little master.

going purely by stats you could say kallis and dravid are better than tendulkar and lara. is that really true?

another point. ponting averages 11.5 runs more at home than away. tendulkar averages more away than at home. ricky also plays a lot more at home than away

tendulkar's slide has been since december 2005. till mid-december 2005 he averaged over 57 in 125 tests

quote:

Originally posted by The One:
going purely by stats you could say kallis and dravid are better than tendulkar and lara. is that really true?

We should give some relevance to SR too.

History will be kind to Tendulkar and rate him as one of the greats of all time, as he clearly deserves to be.

Ponting is still forging his path to all time greatness and who knows where he'll end up, there's not much more Sachin can do to add to his greatness - if he wrapped up tomorrow no one would say "what if". All his great statements have been made, what he does from now on will only confirm his status. Ponting is still adding to his and could end up at the top of the pile in terms of all time stats, but I feel no matter what he does history will always rate Tendulkar the greater player and probably rightly so.

As batsmen on a technical level Tendulkar has less faults and has faced stronger attacks, simply by default due to Ponting being an Aussie! Not his fault of course!

Karti has made an excellent point. Tendulkar is past his prime. He is still one of the best out there, don't get me wrong..but he is also past his glory days. Ponting is in the middle of it right now.

Just to give you a different perspective,
Tendulkar was 31 in the 2004 cricket season. He averaged a whopping 91.5 during that year. Ponting is now 31 and has played 17 matches in the past one year (his prime?) and has averaged only 65.78. Both sets include two matches against bangladesh of which both batsmen made use. Scary part of that is that Tendulkar had hit his prime way before he turned 31.

Stats are all about how you present them. Ponting is definitely up there when it comes to test cricket. But so many factors come into play when comparing players. And taking an overall perspective, I personally rate Tendulkar better than Ponting.

Not sure you could say there's a statistically significant difference between those sets of stats. Both are awesome.

Judgement just comes into it and I look at how Tendulkar has carried the hopes of a nation for so long and think that this greater burden means his figiures mean a little bit more.

Frankly, he must be knackered putting up with the pressure of Indian cricket since he was about 13 1/2.

Guess this winter will go some way to determining history's judgement of Ponting as a player and captain.

quote:

Ponting better than Tendulkar?

Jeez Cobbers ain't the above a sideshow ter the only game in town:-

Lara better than Tendulkar or Tendulkar better than Lara?

quote:

Karti has made an excellent point. Tendulkar is past his prime. He is still one of the best out there, don't get me wrong..but he is also past his glory days. Ponting is in the middle of it right now.

It's a good point. One needs to compare like with like. So if you were going on stats alone, you would need to compare both batsmen during their "prime period" A batsman who is tailing off will have their average dragged down by poorer scores more recently. If the overall period of prime and tail-off is still short, then that may be fair enough to reflect a career. But if the prime period has gone on for many years (longer than many careers in total) then it is maybe unfair to have latter scores drag down the average IF you are comparing them to a player with a shorter career and who has not yet started his decline.

These are the perils of statistics; notwithstanding the problems of comparing different oppositions/bowling attacks etc.

Also the context of the player is important. Ponting is and has always been an awesome batsman. But performing in a team of universally and consistantly high performers is always going to be easier (if you are top calibre) than being the main star performer in a team which is inconsistant and at times dishevelled. Also the Indian bowling attack has not been particularly fearsome for many years. Would you prefer to be the star batsman withthe Indian or Oz attack to back you up??

These factors apply to all the comparisons of the greats.

Ponting is a fantastic batsman. He has his weaknesses and without wishing to undermine his status, he has benefitted from facing (and scoring against) lesser attacks. Don't know what he averaged in the 2005 Ashes, but he often did not look comfortable. If the England attack can fire properly this Winter we will see what the real quality of Ponting is. (I have said in a number of posts that I fancy Monty to trouble his. Saj as well if he can maintain L&L)

Not being jingoistic, but I think it is accepted that the 2005 England attack was one of the best seen in recent years.

Katy good one.

Got to also add that Ponting whilst a great player - is also one who unlike two others of the modern game - tends to be a home bully than one who does well consistently abroad.

For example the stats that I would like to add with Katy's is the following

Tendulkar

                     Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0

unfiltered           132  211  22 10469 248* 241* 217   55.39  35  41  12
filtered             100  160  15  8405 217  201* 193   57.96  30  34  10

home                  42   68   7  3888 217  201* 179   63.73  14  14   3
away                  58   92   8  4517 193  177  169   53.77  16  20   7
  

Ponting:

                     Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0

unfiltered           105  175  24  8792 257  242  207   58.22  31  34   8
filtered             100  166  23  8253 257  242  207   57.71  28  32   8

home                  57   94  16  4907 257  242  207   62.91  16  22   4
away                  40   68   7  3004 206  156  144   49.24  10  10   4
neutral                3    4   0   342 150  141   44   85.50   2   0   0
  

I think even Dravid surpasses Ponting on doing better on away tracks.

Even Dravid? Dravid averages 65 away from home, and his average only falls below 48 in one country (South Africa). He's probably the second best batsman away from home...ever.

Dravid is pretty amazing; and if you had to have someone batting for your life (shakey starters are not a great idea) or for the team when they are in a pit, I struggle to think of anyone I would prefer to see walking out. But he is not at all flashy so is not thought of in the Ponting/Tendulkar/Lara set.

Horses for courses in a way in terms of their styles and when they may be of best use to a particular team situation.

That is why i think it is ultimately a vacuous arguement to try and decide on "the best' or "the greatest" batsman/bowler. What you can do is have groups of great batsmen and the make-up of the group should be fairly disparate.

quote:

Originally posted by Kartikeya:
Statistically, Ponting does look superior to Tendulkar.

***CORRECTION***

Statistically, Ponting is superior to Tendulkar.

A lot of good sense on this thread.

Sachin and Ponting have had very different careers. Sachin became a legend right from the start and has been fading recently. Ponting has slowly built up to his current dominance.

Over their whole careers Sachin is still ahead IMO. The key points to this being a) the quality of bowling faced and b) the joy of watching Sachin's fla