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quote: Originally posted by Rob:
Are Tendulkar and Ganguly the players they were five years ago though? The other issue is whether the Indian seamers, even if they swing the ball, will adjust to bowling an English length. The ground where it will swing most is Headingley, which has very individual conditions. I think Indias best chance for a victory will be at Lords.
Tendulkar definitely isn't. Ganguly seems to have found foot again and I reckon only Harmison (from those available) may cause him some trouble, that is if he finds his line. But his fitness too seems to be questioned and postponing a groin hernia isn't the ideal thing to do. I know by experience. Wasn't it at Headingley that England last lost to India by an innings and 40+ runs? And you were bowling Hoggard, Caddick, Tudor and Flintoff then. The Indian pace attack was limited to Zak, Agarkar and of all people, Bangar. The much maligned Anil Kumble (I mean his performance in England) took 7/159. So no, although I agree with you about India's best chance being at Lords, England's at Trent Bridge, with the Oval up for grabs, I think this series, given the two seemingly well balanced teams, could go either way. Ash, that's probably why I'm not sticking my neck out. I really don't see much between the two teams, at least not on paper. |
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10-0 to England.
India have a much better bowling line-up this time than last time around. Our batting however is in a decline. But, England is a favourite with Sachin, Sourav and Dravid, having played here quite often and all of them have good records.
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quote: Originally posted by mirchy: quote: Originally posted by Rob:
Are Tendulkar and Ganguly the players they were five years ago though? The other issue is whether the Indian seamers, even if they swing the ball, will adjust to bowling an English length. The ground where it will swing most is Headingley, which has very individual conditions. I think Indias best chance for a victory will be at Lords.
Tendulkar definitely isn't. Ganguly seems to have found foot again and I reckon only Harmison (from those available) may cause him some trouble, that is if he finds his line. But his fitness too seems to be questioned and postponing a groin hernia isn't the ideal thing to do. I know by experience. Wasn't it at Headingley that England last lost to India by an innings and 40+ runs? And you were bowling Hoggard, Caddick, Tudor and Flintoff then. The Indian pace attack was limited to Zak, Agarkar and of all people, Bangar. The much maligned Anil Kumble (I mean his performance in England) took 7/159. So no, although I agree with you about India's best chance being at Lords, England's at Trent Bridge, with the Oval up for grabs, I think this series, given the two seemingly well balanced teams, could go either way. Ash, that's probably why I'm not sticking my neck out. I really don't see much between the two teams, at least not on paper.
Tudor was absolute rubbish- Flintoff was a mere pup then. Hoggard is a much improved bowler from 2002, and bowls very well at left-handers, all of which are worth be taking into consideration. I agree India bowled brilliantly at Headingley, but the wicket there has flattened out considerably since 10 or 15 years ago- it doesn't seam anymore than most other county grounds now, which is why swing is of the essence, and why Sidebottom was brought back into the team, and justified his selecion, via movement in the air rather than off the pitch. So while I agree the teams are fairly evenly matched, I think you shouldn't read a huge amount into the 2002 series- more applicable for me is the 2006 drawn series with SL, where they served up flat wickets and Englands catching let them down. Which is why I think the ability of both attacks to swing the ball will be vital. I'd also suggest that the batters England have now probably play spin better than in 2002, as two of our best players of spin, Tresco and Thorpe were missing- so Kumble may not find it so easy to bowl at, for instance, KP.
Tapir Liberation Front
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If India can put 500+ totals on the board, any England team will look vulnerable against spin batting last.
I think the toss will be quite important in this series for India.
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No coach, senior mafia, fitness, fielding etc. etc there are very many problems one can think off.
But the Indian batting will be their biggest problem for them and will assure another overseas series loss. Somewhere along the line they will find a flat Day 2-3 wicket and put some runs on but it will not be able to mask the issue.
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this is talior made for a drawn series
WA - lost in the desert like burke and (gr)wills
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quote: Originally posted by Rob:
Which is why I think the ability of both attacks to swing the ball will be vital. I'd also suggest that the batters England have now probably play spin better than in 2002, as two of our best players of spin, Tresco and Thorpe were missing- so Kumble may not find it so easy to bowl at, for instance, KP.
Interesting you should say that. I think India's trump card is their spinners, precisely because I think the English are still vulnerable to spin. Kumble, towards the end of his career has been able to hit an upward curve and is bowling with more success than he has ever bowled and if the Indian selectors have the courage to go with their assets, they'll play two spinners in at least two of the three tests. I may be alone in this conviction, but having seen Monty turn the ball, I think Ramesh Pawar will be just as effective. If the wickets do turn as they did against the WI, KP and others may find it difficult to attack with a cordon of five fielders around them. I believe KP succumbed to that in India too. But I agree the Indians are very inexperienced in the pace department - it could turn out to be their Achilles heel. Specially once the ball has lost its shine, they'll find it difficult to contain KP and co. India should go in with 3 pacers and 2 spinners. If six batsmen of the calibre of Dravid, Sachin, Laxman and Dhoni - and I consider Dhoni to be a recognised batsman - can't do the trick, seven won't either. |
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quote: Originally posted by mirchy:
I may be alone in this conviction, but having seen Monty turn the ball, I think Ramesh Pawar will be just as effective.
We would be mugs to produce turning wickets for the Indians. It has to be said, Monty was turning it off the good areas of the pitch during the WI series - not just the rough. I expect Monty to cause India problems despite the fact that they are supposed to play it better than anyone. Any team chasing 375 for a win can fold to pressure - Shaun Udal anyone? |
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quote: Originally posted by JKLever:
I expect Monty to cause India problems despite the fact that they are supposed to play it better than anyone. Any team chasing 375 for a win can fold to pressure - Shaun Udal anyone?
So are you saying England prepared those tracks against the WI on purpose then? I don’t think they did. As a matter of fact, as the season progresses the English wickets may afford even more spin. If the English think tank wants both their pace and spin attack to have some effect on the series, they may decide to persist with tracks that were prepared for the previous series. That’s the good thing about cricket in England; the modern tracks present no bias and are fair. It compensates for the inclement weather, I guess. Monty will definitely cause Indian batsmen quite a few problems. I think it’s a myth that we play spin better than anyone else. It may have been the case once, but those days are long gone. |
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I don't think Monty will do that well against India. He'll get about 10 wickets at 36 in the series. He'll do a job at one end though, economy and long spells.
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quote: Originally posted by mirchy:
That’s the good thing about cricket in England; the modern tracks present no bias and are fair. It compensates for the inclement weather, I guess.
That's true, the ECB don't really get a say in what is prepared - they just ask for good cricket wickets. OT was a perfect test wicket IMO, bounce, spin and runs avaialble for the batsmen. I think they'll try and avoid the colombo-alike wicket at Trent Bridge like last year (although again to be fair the weather had its say in that) |
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quote: Originally posted by JKLever:
We would be mugs to produce turning wickets for the Indians.
That's true, but who'd have thought any groundsman would be stupid enough to prepare a pitch tailor-made for Murali - as happened last year? |
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quote: Originally posted by mirchy: quote: Originally posted by Rob:
Which is why I think the ability of both attacks to swing the ball will be vital. I'd also suggest that the batters England have now probably play spin better than in 2002, as two of our best players of spin, Tresco and Thorpe were missing- so Kumble may not find it so easy to bowl at, for instance, KP.
Interesting you should say that. I think India's trump card is their spinners, precisely because I think the English are still vulnerable to spin. Kumble, towards the end of his career has been able to hit an upward curve and is bowling with more success than he has ever bowled and if the Indian selectors have the courage to go with their assets, they'll play two spinners in at least two of the three tests. I may be alone in this conviction, but having seen Monty turn the ball, I think Ramesh Pawar will be just as effective. If the wickets do turn as they did against the WI, KP and others may find it difficult to attack with a cordon of five fielders around them. I believe KP succumbed to that in India too. But I agree the Indians are very inexperienced in the pace department - it could turn out to be their Achilles heel. Specially once the ball has lost its shine, they'll find it difficult to contain KP and co. India should go in with 3 pacers and 2 spinners. If six batsmen of the calibre of Dravid, Sachin, Laxman and Dhoni - and I consider Dhoni to be a recognised batsman - can't do the trick, seven won't either.
It'll be an interesting series certainly. Among Englands likely top 6, Vaughan, Colly and Cook have hundreds against the Indians, and Bell seems to have found his niche at 6, whereas KP is the best player of spin at the side. The flip side of having attacking fields is that the likes of Colly and KP who hit over the top could score extrememly quickly. I haven;t seen much of Powar, but Kumble over his career averages 40 in ENgland I think, so he'll have to really pull out the stops. He'll be economical I think, but the likes of COlly and Vaughan are very adept at manipulating the strike which will help to release pressure.
Tapir Liberation Front
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